How is Bayonetta Satanic?

[Providence_777]

Providence don’t let his remarks get to you. Some people are comic book lovers and their writings may seem like they come out of one. Which proves my point that for some of us the lines between reality and fiction are blurred and we resort to comic book insults to try to win an arguement. Interestingly however, I find that the nickname some people use for themselves on this forum is vividly telling.

Your right, I’ll compose myself again. Thank you Kinja.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

How are you confusing this? I am not defending Dan Brown.

Yet you accuse me of insults after quoting a portion of me that calls Dan Brown for what he is: a sell-out.

Are you judging me by the people that were in my life regardless of my choice?

No, I am judging just a certain capacity of yours. I can’t really care much for who you are outside of that.

You can’t choose your relatives, nor can you choose your classmates, nor can you choose your teachers (at least in a public school anyway)

Yeah but you can choose to use your head and distinguish fiction from fact.

It’s not an act, I really believe that your confused and need spiritual guidance from a qualified Pastor, even though you think your 100% right, checking in with God won’t hurt unless your afraid of what he might say.

The burden of proving that is on you. On the other hand, I’ve already demonstrated that you’re the one in need of a shrink. You can’t tell fantasy from reality due to your experiences. That much has been proven.

Dude, seriously… why do you feel the need to be so rude? Your outbursts is one of the things that concerns me. The way you have been addressing us here, it’s not very becoming of child of light. And shows evidence of deeper issue.

Rude? If you find facts rude then you’ve only shown yourself to have more emotional problems.

Oh and FYI? I’ve studied a bit of the actual occult and I’ve read a book by my own country’s leading exorcist. I wouldn’t be arguing with you if I wasn’t even the slightest bit wrong. Hence, knock it off with the act (oh and quit playing psychologist too). I know what I’m defending. You don’t.

And I quoted my sources just fine. I just didn’t check 1 homepage, and now the soundness of my mind is in question.

One homepage? If I recall, I saw you link three sites.

Put down your guns, their is no need to be so offensive.

The only one being offended here is you.

 

[Providence_777]

Yet you accuse me of insults after quoting a portion of me that calls Dan Brown for what he is: a sell-out.

I was quoting the part where you said “use your common sense” which is implying that I’m not using common sense.

I let the Dan brown potion in because I didn’t want to quote you out of context.

No, I am judging just a certain capacity of yours. I can’t really care much for who you are outside of that.

Oh ok, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Yeah but you can choose to use your head and distinguish fiction from fact.

I can distinguish fact from fiction very well, my point is that many people can’t and are falling victim to misrepresentations of witchcraft.

The burden of proving that is on you. On the other hand, I’ve already demonstrated that you’re the one in need of a shrink. You can’t tell fantasy from reality due to your experiences. That much has been proven.

How would I prove my concern? How can I show you that I’m genuine?

Rude? If you find facts rude then you’ve only shown yourself to have more emotional problems.

What you perceive to be facts is not what’s rude. It’s your aggressive presentation of them.

Example: If I think someone got a math problem wrong. I would say “maybe that’s not the right answer, I can help you check your work.”.
What you have demonstrated is “You suck at math, your too ignorant to learn”

That is what I mean by rude.

Oh and FYI? I’ve studied a bit of the actual occult and I’ve read a book by my own country’s leading exorcist. I wouldn’t be arguing with you if I wasn’t even the slightest bit wrong. Hence, knock it off with the act (oh and quit playing psychologist too). I know what I’m defending. You don’t.

I want to show you that it’s not an act, what shall I do for you to see that.

Also, not playing psychologist either, I just point out things that I notice.

One homepage? If I recall, I saw you link three sites.

Only one of those sites had a problem. The others were fine, I only posted them because I was being ask to sight sources.

The only one being offended here is you.

Dude…uhhh…
I didn’t say…oh…see, this is why I hate homonyms.

I meant “offensive” in relation to “offense” and “defense”

Through this whole thing you have seemed very angry with me. And our different stands on the issue isn’t enough to provoke that.
And I did my best to clear up our miscommunications so that can’t be the culprit either.

I’ve done my best at remaining polite, and I have tried not to say insults back (although I did snap at you earlier). And I have apologized many times, yet you still act like we’re enemies.

Dude! What would you have me do to show you that I just want to either help or learn?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I was quoting the part where you said “use your common sense” which is implying that I’m not using common sense.

LOL! You call that an insult?
This just proves my point. You’re waaaay to emotional.

I let the Dan brown potion in because I didn’t want to quote you out of context.

I can distinguish fact from fiction very well, my point is that many people can’t and are falling victim to misrepresentations of witchcraft.

The fact that you believe ‘many people can’t’ actually proves that you yourself can’t since you’ve been surrounded by such people and refuse to be reasonable.

How would I prove my concern? How can I show you that I’m genuine?

Your intentions are not what’s suspect here. It’s your rationale.

What you perceive to be facts is not what’s rude. It’s your aggressive presentation of them.

That’s just your perception. If you can’t handle what I’m saying up front then don’t respond. I’m not gonna sugarcoat the truth for you.

I want to show you that it’s not an act, what shall I do for you to see that.

Also, not playing psychologist either, I just point out things that I notice.

Yes well I point out the things that I notice too. The only difference is that I can back it up and it’s not just my own view. I’ve seen plenty of other so-called ‘spiritual’ Catholics play the ‘blindness’ card when I’ve proven their perception of fantasy is flawed. You’re not the first. That’s why I’m telling you to drop it cuz it’s not gonna work. You’re just making a True Scotsman fallacy laced with emotional appeal.

Only one of those sites had a problem. The others were fine, I only posted them because I was being ask to sight sources.

One? LOL! Try all of the above.

Dude! What would you have me do to show you that I just want to either help or learn?

Y’know that old Eastern saying? It’s hard to fill a cup that’s already full.

Unless you empty your cup of its prejudices and old misconceptions, unless you are completely devoid of whatever enemies of fantasy fiction have told you, then and only then can you say you are willing to learn.

 

[Providence_777]

LOL! You call that an insult?
This just proves my point. You’re waaaay to emotional.

I let the Dan brown potion in because I didn’t want to quote you out of context.

Wow I totally misspelled “portion”. Anyway about that one part being insulting, you have been boldly insulting through this whole thing, I’ve tolerated what I could but that was the straw the broke the camels back. On any given day, that would have no reason to bother me, but with that statement carrying a slight negative connotation after all that you have said before, I was through with it.

The fact that you believe ‘many people can’t’ actually proves that you yourself can’t since you’ve been surrounded by such people and refuse to be reasonable.

Again, how does other people not knowing reality from fiction, mean that I can’t know reality from fiction? I know Christianity is good despite large number of people in my environment who think to actually to be either dumb or evil somehow.

Your intentions are not what’s suspect here. It’s your rationale.

Ok cool,

That’s just your perception. If you can’t handle what I’m saying up front then don’t respond. I’m not gonna sugarcoat the truth for you.

The truth is a tough pill to swallow, I’m not asking for you to sugarcoat what your saying, just stop punching people in the nose before asking them to take a pill. It’s counter productive to proving your point.

You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
“This means that it is easier to persuade people if you use polite arguments and flattery than if you are confrontational”

Yes well I point out the things that I notice too. The only difference is that I can back it up and it’s not just my own view. I’ve seen plenty of other so-called ‘spiritual’ Catholics play the ‘blindness’ card when I’ve proven their perception of fantasy is flawed. You’re not the first. That’s why I’m telling you to drop it cuz it’s not gonna work.

I still don’t see what wrong with praying to God, and asking him about this subject.

But you have not “proven” my perception of fantasy to be flawed in any way. You have just provided examples of how you think Satan is not involved in the promotion of Satanism and witchcraft. Along with saying that inventing cool powers for characters, and labeling it as witchcraft being responsible for these powers somehow doesn’t make witchcraft look cool.

Look, it’s become apparent to me that where your at, not too many people (if any) got tricked into thinking that real witchcraft was cool. Just consider yourself blessed.

Because the very common response with a number of family members, and large number of people at different schools that I attended, was that “wow I thought real witchcraft was bad, but it’s “all” nothing but pretend magic” or “It would be so cool to be a witch, I know in real life you can’t turn people into frogs. But real life spells are still cool anyway”

It’s like watching a sheep maul your friend, and then someone tells you “sheep don’t bite much less maul idiot”
whether or not that’s true is irrelevant, because you friend still needs to be taken to a hospital because of a sheep that “doesn’t” maul people.

One? LOL! Try all of the above.

Wait, oh no, what offending material was on the other sites?

Unless you empty your cup of its prejudices and old misconceptions, unless you are completely devoid of whatever enemies of fantasy fiction have told you, then and only then can you say you are willing to learn.

Two things about that…

I know not a person who is an enemy of fantasy, I’ve heard of them, and I saw them on the news burning Pikachu dolls (I know… “what? why?” I wish I knew)

Fantasy is great, I’ve never met someone who said “Now that I played Final Fantasy, I want to be a Witch!!”

However, I have heard many say I]“Harry Potter is so cool, witchcraft rocks!!”
After a few months they started telling everyone that their a wiccan.

I have seen sooo many cases like this, that it sickens me. The one main common denominator is that they all accepted that witchcraft is ok, from some media source. HP is just a recurring culprit to this.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Anyway about that one part being insulting, you have been boldly insulting through this whole thing, I’ve tolerated what I could but that was the straw the broke the camels back. On any given day, that would have no reason to bother me, but with that statement carrying a slight negative connotation after all that you have said before, I was through with it.

Your speech does not justify your oversensitivity. Calling someone to use critical thinking is not an insult. Face it. If you can’t handle that sort of criticism, then you shouldn’t be debating at all.

Again, how does other people not knowing reality from fiction, mean that I can’t know reality from fiction? I know Christianity is good despite large number of people in my environment who think to actually to be either dumb or evil somehow.

You’ve been surrounded by such people AND are willing to believe those like kinja who insist on blurring fact with fiction. That’s not a good history to have when you keep insisting that you don’t make the same mistake and continue to defend their position.

The truth is a tough pill to swallow, I’m not asking for you to sugarcoat what your saying, just stop punching people in the nose before asking them to take a pill. It’s counter productive to proving your point.

Spare me. I’m not taking this from someone who can’t stand their reasoning from being criticized.

I still don’t see what wrong with praying to God, and asking him about this subject.

Been there done that.

But you have not “proven” my perception of fantasy to be flawed in any way. You have just provided examples of how you think Satan is not involved in the promotion of Satanism and witchcraft. Along with saying that inventing cool powers for characters, and labeling it as witchcraft being responsible for these powers somehow doesn’t make witchcraft look cool.

Read the bolded portions, you just answered yourself… oh and shot your own foot at the same time.
Providence 777;8123616:

Look, it’s become apparent to me that where your at, not too many people (if any) got tricked into thinking that real witchcraft was cool. Just consider yourself blessed.

Blessed that I’m what? Sane? LOL! As much as I can appreciate that, I don’t think the rest of humanity will take kindly to you implying that everyone is a loon who confuses fantasy with reality.

Because the very common response with a number of family members, and large number of people at different schools that I attended, was that “wow I thought real witchcraft was bad, but it’s “all” nothing but pretend magic”

or “It would be so cool to be a witch, I know in real life you can’t turn people into frogs. But real life spells are still cool anyway”

Proof of your personal history affecting your world view, right up there. Read your own words, hard, if you still insist that your perception isn’t cracked.

Wait, oh no, what offending material was on the other sites?

Ask Jharek.

I have seen sooo many cases like this, that it sickens me. The one main common denominator is that they all accepted that witchcraft is ok, from some media source. HP is just a recurring culprit to this.

And I have seen soooo many cases that are NOT like that. Nobody in my school turned Wiccan after Harry Potter and it was a Catholic school for pete’s sake.

As for your implication that putting a witchcraft label was a factor, I’m starting to doubt how much you know of Final Fantasy. You aware that ‘black magic’ and ‘white magic’ exists there right and it has never occurred to you that what happened to your ‘friends’ with Harry Potter might have just as easily happened with Final Fantasy?

I rest my case.

 

[antunesaa]

Says who? The movie would have been able to reach even illiterate people and those to whom the literary work would make no sense in it’s written form. Even believers have had their faith shaken and tested by this work and some who have been looking to Catholicism for answers have also fallen prey to the lies about Christ and his wife. Do you not think that the more impressionable people who saw this film may see the clergy as a bunch of hypocrites? THis is what has been happening in my experience. If Jesus had a wife (possibly) then why aren’t priest getting married? This is only one of the many lies that that book has resurrected from the anals of gnosticism. In an age of gnosticism (celebrities airing their gnostic belief that we are all gods) the Dan Browne novel made movie is yet another stubling block for many in my opinion.

Let me just focus on the movie. That indeed poses deeper questions because the movie can cause problems with less cautious people. Still, you should trust God’s work in people’s hearts. Some people might be initially seduced by some modern strains of Gnosticism and new age, Oprah-type spiritual trends. As people’s lives go on, they realize that these new types of paganism and syncretism lead them nowhere. Some souls will be lost; but many will be again slowly and irresistibly be attracted to the Lord. This is what I believe and what I have witnessed over and over again.

 

[kinja]

Still, you should trust God’s work in people’s hearts. Some people might be initially seduced by some modern strains of Gnosticism and new age, Oprah-type spiritual trends. As people’s lives go on, they realize that these new types of paganism and syncretism lead them nowhere. Some souls will be lost; but many will be again slowly and irresistibly be attracted to the Lord. This is what I believe and what I have witnessed over and over again.

And our job is to stand on the sidelines and observe as Satan leads people astray I suppose? Saying that we should trust God’s work in people’s hearts is like saying if you see an armed masked man running towards you from 100 yards away you should not act because you should trust in God’s work in his heart. God allowed you to see the threat so that you could possible avoid it maybe? I think in some cases yes and the same applies to things that people put out there that could lead may astray. I’m not saying we should be violent or irrational but we should do our best to educate people about the truth and point out the lies. Faith without works is dead says the Lord and we are not called to be an inactive body. Rather we are called to be on fire with passion for him and His Word which is the way the truth and the life yes?

As I stated before, this is why Muslims and Jews are not often targeted or used in this way by the entertainment and media industry. Because they take a stand. Yes persecutions will come after all Our Lord said so, but that doesn’t mean we become docile and silent and leave it up to God and do nothing so as to justify our faith in Him.

 

[kinja]

The reality is that some the kinds of things that pass off as entertainment today especially for children, if it were 40 years ago, would have been met with such an outcry and disapproval from society and the media (who were still pretty conservative back then) that the writer’s and moviemakers would have issued apologies and promised not to make a sequel.

But as a society we have gotten loose and are trying to fit in with what is fashionable more often that what is right and good. We feel that we will be missing out if we don’t partake of the “in-thing” or the latest fad. That we will end up like living like those images of the amish people we’ve seen on the tv.

When the Beatles said that they were more popular that God and His apostles were too simple for example. The outcry was tremendous. Beatles albums were burnt etc in protest of these blasphemous statements. The beatles had to respond before it got out of control and said that his (John Lennon) statements were taken out of context.

Fast forward to today. Ever other day it seems that a celebrity is making a blasphemous claim from Hip Hop to Heavy Metal to R&B to Pop. Entertainment, politics, education, business, fashion. You name it and satan has claimed alot of it. We have grown tolerant over time with the slow poison of secularism and humanism (the spirit of the anti-chirst is active). We didn’t even see what hit us and when it did so.

Now we find ourselves trying to justify as neutral or even good, a literary work or video game, or movie which may be clearly based on and glorifying what is forbidden to us as Catholics. How far we have fallen. We really need to pray friends. Pray for us to put aside our pride and selfish desires and really live in the Word of God and and allow Him to live in us.

Let us trust in God and not fear being left behind by the world people. God alone is forever and he did not bring us here to leave us alone.

 

[kinja]

Of course there are alot of anti-Catholic articles out there. And the reason why some people believe them is because the most effective lie is one mixed with a measure of truth. Because there are some information or misinformation sources on the web for example which are anti-Catholic or contain quotes and information from prominent Catholics taken out of context. It does not mean that all the information presented on these sites is false. That would be, in some cases, throwing the baby out with the bath water.

I’m sure you believe that science is based significantly on provable and testable facts. When a scientist postulates that there is no God, does that statement render all her other works irrelevent and false? No. So in the midst of untruth there mayu be also some truth.

But dismissing out of hand a source of information on a particular topic is not helpful unless an alternative of truth can be offered instead.

 

[kinja]

This is exactly what the enemy wants. While the body is fighting amongst itself he can seduce more minds and steal more souls. I consider HP and Boyonetta both to be anti-Catholic by definition. Because HP is well written and entertaining and masked as some nice x-men-style (fun without the science?) adventure does that make it ok for our impressionable “Catholic” children to read? Do the symbols and themes and images in Bayonetta make for good, wholesome fun say at the vatican or our local seminary? Then why do we expose our kids to it and why would we expose ourselves to it? Learning about the occult so you can be armed to defend against evil it is one thing. But exposing ourselves to the occult for recreation? Not sure if that is ok.

 

[kinja]

It is true that a half truth is a lie but don’t you think it would be more instructive to point out what parts exactly are untrue and reinforce what parts are based in truth?

If I said was preaching that love, patience, lust and avarice are all pleasing to god, would your response be simply: FALSE.

Would it not make sense to say: Well love and patience are pleasing to God but lust and avarice are displeasing to God and are 2 of the seven deadly sins. Instead of simply focusing on the untruth, use the opportunity to focus on the truth as well. Scripture says the TRUTH will set us free not the UNTRUTH so why focus on it alone.

 

[kinja]

Think about who the protagonist is in the stories and what craft he practices then re-read:
(Deuteronomy 18:9-14)
(2 Chronicles 33:2)
(2 Chronicles 33:6)
(1 Samuel 23)
(Isaiah 2:6)
(Isaiah 2:10-18)
(Galatians 5:19-21)
among others.

Being born with super powers from ones genes is one thing (many super heroes) but clearly the boy witch (just like Sabrina and many other glorified hollywood witches) does not share this same purely physical trait. Why then does he have to cast spells and use divination and ritual tools to effect his “powers”? Let’s be real and objective here…Harry Potter IS a practitioner of the dark arts (witchcraft). Let’s call a spade a spade.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Being born with super powers from ones genes is one thing (many super heroes) but clearly the boy witch (just like Sabrina and many other glorified hollywood witches) does not share this same purely physical trait. Why then does he have to cast spells and use divination and ritual tools to effect his “powers”? Let’s be real and objective here…Harry Potter IS a practitioner of the dark arts (witchcraft). Let’s call a spade a spade.

It’s how their powers work so it is not different from that of superpowers. Incantations and spells are simply part of the cosmological system to help control such powers. You do realize that even without incantations or wands, a wizard/witch can still do something? In Book 1 Harry made the glass at a zoo’s reptile house vanish and in Book 3, he blew up his aunt into a balloon. There are other things that happened prior to his first year as well.

In the words of Hagrid, “Didja ever make anythin’ happen? Anythin’ you couldn’t explain?”

 

[kinja]

It’s how their powers work so it is not different from that of superpowers.

Of course it is different than super powers. They are called witches they use spells and do magic and use wands and even the terms and refernces used by the witches are all borrowed from the craft. So because they are born with these “powers” (even though witches can caste spells in witchcraft to make migical children who are afflicted or possessed from an early age) that means that we should rule out all the other glaring similarities and other obvious references to actual witchcraft? You have no idea how subjective and blindsided your argument sounds. In your estimation the society called Opus Dei as described by Dan Browne in Da Vinci code he is in no way referencing the actual Catholic society of Opus Dei. He is just using the same name that’s ALL. Because by your logic Opus Dei do not have assassins working for the society.

Truth is skillfully mixed in with the lie in Potter so that the novel’s fanatics can grasp at straws to defend the obvious occult references that this series makes.

Incantations and spells are simply part of the cosmological system to help control such powers. You do realize that even without incantations or wands, a wizard/witch can still do something? In Book 1 Harry made the glass at a zoo’s reptile house vanish and in Book 3, he blew up his aunt into a balloon. There are other things that happened prior to his first year as well.

In the words of Hagrid, “Didja ever make anythin’ happen? Anythin’ you couldn’t explain?”

Didja ever hear that witches, when channeling a spirit entity can make things happen without the use of incantations or spells as well? Both are possible when dealing with dark arts. Many an exorcist can testify to this. The demon possessed can often surprise the unsuspecting with superhuman feats that cannot all be scientifically explained at present. So what? Aleister Crowley the infamous occultist wrote about many things that could be accomplished once a connection to the dark side was established.

Have you ever heard of witches consecrating their children to spirit entities so that they can be born with esp and other abilities (magical children) is what they are called. Speaking to animals and telekinesis are some of the claims of the proud parents.

Too many similarities exist with actual witchcraft for this to be a product merly of a writer’s creativity. The writer of this series knew exactly what she was doing when she wrote it I think. If she didn’t then someone or something else did. That is my opinion of the matter and you are entitled to yours likewise. I once had a friend who wanted to use profanities on my mother because she was so mad that my mother used the words demonize and Harry Potter in the same sentence. She was so enraged and personally offended that anyone would say anything negative about her beloved friend Potter.

Is it just me or is there something very wrong with the fervor with which this fictional work is defended by it’s readers?

 

[kinja]

Oscar is entitled to his opinion as are we all and thankfully his is not cannon law or of any real importance to me on this matter. You are also entitled to yours friend
Just calling a spade a spade.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

So because they are born with these “powers” (even though witches can caste spells in witchcraft to make migical children who are afflicted or possessed from an early age)

Stop right there. Where’s your proof of this nonsense? Real witches can’t ‘make’ magical children.

that means that we should rule out all the other glaring similarities and other obvious references to actual witchcraft? You have no idea how subjective and blindsided your argument sounds.

When you fictionalize something, it ceases being real. How you continue to persist in disbelieving such an obvious while simultaneously justifying sheer lunacy astounds me.

In your estimation the society called Opus Dei as described by Dan Browne in Da Vinci code he is in no way referencing the actual Catholic society of Opus Dei. He is just using the same name that’s ALL. Because by your logic Opus Dei do not have assassins working for the society.

Of course not. It takes more than using the same name to make an equivalent reference.

Didja ever hear that witches, when channeling a spirit entity can make things happen without the use of incantations or spells as well? Both are possible when dealing with dark arts. Many an exorcist can testify to this. The demon possessed can often surprise the unsuspecting with superhuman feats that cannot all be scientifically explained at present. So what? Aleister Crowley the infamous occultist wrote about many things that could be accomplished once a connection to the dark side was established.

Doesn’t change the fact that fictional wizards don’t channel any ‘spirit’.

Have you ever heard of witches consecrating their children to spirit entities so that they can be born with esp and other abilities (magical children) is what they are called. Speaking to animals and telekinesis are some of the claims of the proud parents.

Proof or no cigar. This sounds like the garbage of conspiracy theoriests. Even on the remote possibility that this is true, you’ve just thrown free will outside the window. Finally, there’s no parallel between this and fictional magic because fictional mages had always possessed magical powers since the dawn of their universe’s creation.

Is it just me or is there something very wrong with the fervor with which this fictional work is defended by it’s readers?

Because your logic can fired against an entire genre (a genre that’s smack dab on MY career path), not just one or two popular works.

 

[kinja]

Stop right there. Where’s your proof of this nonsense? Real witches can’t ‘make’ magical children.

Says you. Read the writings of many an occultist. Try Magick without tears or 777 or any number of Aleister Crowley’s books. Several of his consorts attempted to conceive magical children with him in his latter years before he died. They thought that the magic was strong in him and I guess that their children woul inherit his “abilities”. Many witches believe this as well.

We believe that Jesus is present in the form of the Eucharist. What non believers believe should not affect the truth of that to us. Similarly your belief that witches cannot make magical children does not change that belief for many witches.

You need to read some of the writings of these real witches if you want to speak from an informed perspective. You seem to know nothing about this religion. If you like you can check out the wiccan and magic blogs and websites online for starters and read what some of these people believe. There are lots of websites and blogs out there now…moreso after the Potter fad with enthusiasts and practicing witches who are selling the faith to them.

When you fictionalize something, it ceases being real. How you continue to persist in disbelieving such an obvious while simultaneously justifying sheer lunacy astounds me.

Fictionalizing something simply means mixing truth with fiction. So in your estimation adding some fiction to a basic truth or exagerating the truth makes the whole thing cease to be true? Nonsense.

Of course not. It takes more than using the same name to make an equivalent reference.

It does take more than the name. And HP bears much more similarity to a real witch that in name only. Let’s not pretend that is not the case. The only difference between HP and actual witchcraft is that ALL witches are born with magical powers.

Doesn’t change the fact that fictional wizards don’t channel any ‘spirit’.

Read between the lines. If some actual witches believe in the unintelligent Force that they USE to “conjour up” their magic is not spiritual but scientific and material, that doesn’t change our belief that supernatural occurences through occult practices is accomplished by malevolent spirits. That an unintelligent, impersonal Force that has created all that we see and do not see does not exist. We believe in an intelligent and personal God who is the creator of all that is seen and unseen. Yes? Again read between the lines and don’t let your passion for your work cloud the truth.

Proof or no cigar. This sounds like the garbage of conspiracy theoriests. Even on the remote possibility that this is true, you’ve just thrown free will outside the window. Finally, there’s no parallel between this and fictional magic because fictional mages had always possessed magical powers since the dawn of their universe’s creation.

I actually read that in a book on Aleister Crowley and also have seen postings on this on a witch’s blog by practitioners of wicca. On the blog they were discussing scrying and different types of spells they use around the household using water mainly. Also they reference and share book names and links on the website. I will try to find it share it with you if you like. I generally don’t like sending links to anyone that may lead inadvertently to their inticement in the occult.

But I digres. Again you are trying to separate an archetype (the mage, witch, magician, sorcerer) in these fantasy stories from their deeper meanings and properties. How they have attained their magical power does not change the properties or morality of someone practicing divination or necromancy. Having “conversations” with “dead witches” and astral travel are not concepts or practices condoned by Christianity the last time I checked (both are present in Potter novels btw). Even some of the words used are from actual witchcraft.

You are seeing one aspect being “changed” in these stories (them being born with powers as opposed to learing how to use them), which some occultists actually believe is true anyway, and you run with it saying it is not a depiction or parody of real witchcraft.

Because your logic can fired against an entire genre (a genre that’s smack dab on MY career path), not just one or two popular works.

Not just you friend. You are one of many who act this way about “fictional” magic. The truth has to be more important than both our careers because the truth is alive and it is Jesus Christ himself who gave you your gift to use in building up His Kingdom not promoting decorated and diguised copies of what He detests.

Where I come from in Trinidad and there is alot of witchcraft in parts of the countryside. It’s called Obeah in Trinidad. It came from Africa by the slaves and includes a mixture of ancient African occult practices and south american occultism. There is a belief in associated spirit creatures with the dark arts like Papa Bois, Soucouyant and Bakuman. They bare some similarities to other “mythical” creatures from greek and Irish folklore. For example there is one belief by some of the practitioners that for couples who cannot conceive, the Obeah practitioner can help them bare a child on condition that the soul of the child is given in exchange for conception. A guard or mark is placed on the child’s person (neck or other part of the body) to keep the child in spiritual slavery.

Some people are not aware of the reality that alot of this entertainment is based HEAVILY on actual ancient beliefs and practices of occultism. “Fictionalizing” the truth does not make it any less true. Remember that fitcion is the opposite of fact not truth.

 

[kinja]

Stop right there. Where’s your proof of this nonsense? Real witches can’t ‘make’ magical children.

harrypotterforseekers.com/index.php

This is just one of many of the websites which are designed by their “open minded” creators to give the reader a bit more “insight” into the inner workings on the Potter work.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Says you. Read the writings of many an occultist. Try Magick without tears or 777 or any number of Aleister Crowley’s books.

And you believe this lunatic?

If you like you can check out the wiccan and magic blogs and websites online for starters and read what some of these people believe. There are lots of websites and blogs out there now…moreso after the Potter fad with enthusiasts and practicing witches who are selling the faith to them.

If you think Aleister Crowley is somehow the witchcraft equivalent to our St. Paul, then it’s you who are ignorant. Wicca and other Neopagan cults are nothing more than modernized version of past myths that had never been consistent to begin with. They don’t have a leading authority. They don’t have a core set of doctrines. They don’t have their own counterpart to our Bible (no, the Satanic Bible doesn’t count).

Look I’ve seen plenty of Wiccans, Neopagans, and Pantheists during my days in YouTube, they are nothing more than religious nomads wandering around books and personal opinions with hardly anything solid to base their views on.

Fictionalizing something simply means mixing truth with fiction. So in your estimation adding some fiction to a basic truth or exagerating the truth makes the whole thing cease to be true? Nonsense.

Uh no. If I take a stick and pretend that it shot fire, it doesn’t change the stick. I have simply taken something, put in my imagination and turned it into something else.

That’s my point. Those two sticks are not the same and should not be treated the same (which is your argument). Something tells me you really have trouble distinguishing between fiction and fact. I suggest you go see a therapist.

It does take more than the name. And HP bears much more similarity to a real witch that in name only. Let’s not pretend that is not the case. The only difference between HP and actual witchcraft is that ALL witches are born with magical powers.

Again, real witches can’t fly on brooms or shoot sparks out of wands. They don’t play Quidditch. The Daily Prophet doesn’t exist. Hogwarts is not real.

To say all of that is similar to little pantheist clubs convening in little English houses, then going out to walk/sing in circles in the middle of the night/at the crack of dawn shows you need to put your money where your mouth is.

Read between the lines. If some actual witches believe in the unintelligent Force that they USE to “conjour up” their magic is not spiritual but scientific and material, that doesn’t change our belief that supernatural occurences through occult practices is accomplished by malevolent spirits. That an unintelligent, impersonal Force that has created all that we see and do not see does not exist. We believe in an intelligent and personal God who is the creator of all that is seen and unseen. Yes?

See this is where you’re supposed to draw the line between what’s real and what’s not. The fact that you don’t only gives me more cause to wonder if you’re really all right upstairs.

Of course there is no such thing as a ‘neutral’ supernatural force in our world. Why? Because it’s our world. It’s not the fantasy world where the cosmology is different.

God created our world this way. Say it with me, it’s our world.

Again read between the lines and don’t let your passion for your work cloud the truth.

In the words of Dr. Facilier… sings

Don’t you disrespect me little man!
Don’t you derogate or deride…

You’re in my world now, not your world…