How is mary a virgin?

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Lisa4Catholics:
Sorry,but alas you again are wrong,Christ is the perfect son who honors his Mother,you want to make her a surragate throwaway,but hey in genesis God told satan He would put emnity between satan and the woman I don’t believe your protestant,your just being used by the enemy of God who can’t stand Mary or her Son Jesus,I do hope your not male however as a female I would be very weary of your stance on love and women.
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Where is the command of Christ through his apostles in the New Testament (and I mean an explicit command) to honor or pray to Mary? Surely Christ if this relationship were so important would not have neglected through the apostles to command us to enjoin this relationship. What about the first believers who knew nothing of Mary, but simply came to faith in Christ. Was there something missing from their lives?
 
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doulos1:
So the Pope has more authority that Paul who tells us that the bishop must be the husband of one wife? 1Tim. 3:2? I think that he does not. So I have a choice, I can believe Paul or the Pope, hmmmm let me see, I chose Paul (and God through him).

And it is because your church forces us to choose that it is evidently anti-christian.
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Peter was the first Pope not Paul and guess what…Paul was CELIBATE:eek: OOOOOhhhhhhhhhh!Arguments unraveling oh,angry one.Wrong again the Priests are called,nobody is forced to be a priest and priests go through formation they can discern whether they are being called to the married life or the priest hood.
 
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Benadam:
I said sex is a physical expression of fulfillment and divine union.

if you want to offer substance to your sentiment you would give evidence against how I defined it as inherently sin. Not personal sin mind you. But it’s an act that is unavoidably tainted by our fallen state.
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and isn’t every human action "unavoidably tainted by our fallen state?
 
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doulos1:
Where is the command of Christ through his apostles in the New Testament (and I mean an explicit command) to honor or pray to Mary? Surely Christ if this relationship were so important would not have neglected through the apostles to command us to enjoin this relationship. What about the first believers who knew nothing of Mary, but simply came to faith in Christ. Was there something missing from their lives?
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When Jesus was on the cross he looked at the Mary and said Woman behold your son(John).He calls her woman in reference to Genesis.You know the one satan would have emnity against:whistle: Honor thy mother and father pretty clear in the commandments.She is our Mother 🙂 Read Revelation starting at 12:1 Keep reading till you get it right.Or did you take that book out too?
 
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MaggieOH:
I am not sure what conclusions that you are drawing here or what St. Peter’s marital status has to do with the doctrine of Perpetual Virginity. As for saying that God told us that Mary was not a virgin after the birth of Jesus, I say, where is the precise proof? Please tell me the names and ages of all of the younger children of Mary, and please provide Scriptural references of where they are named explicitly as sons of Mary the mother of Jesus.

Maggie
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His sisters are not named, but his brother are in Mark 6:3 “Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.”
 
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doulos1:
His sisters are not named, but his brother are in Mark 6:3 “Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.”
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That states He was the Son of Mary singular!Saint Joseph was a widower has it escaped your mind that he might have had children before his wife died?Or do you think St. Joseph was celibate with his first wife:whacky:
 
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pnewton:
Thank you for this post. You admit that the word can have mean something different. I said this before and no one responded. If the possibility exists at all ( and you are in agreement with current lexicons as to this possibility), then this verse can not stand as proof. To present it as proof is either intellectually dishonest or adding to scripture

Of course it can. Your “oh it can have many different meanings so lets all just take the Popes interpretation” does not work here. I am insisting that there is a normal meaning to the word which is the reversal of the verb in the main clause. This is the way we all understand this word in language. And that the special meanings are determined by the context of the verse itself. If a special meaning is intended it must be evident in the context of the verse. There is no special meaning evident in the context, therefore teh normal meaning stands and Mary ceased to be a virgin after the birth of Jesus!

I used to be a Baptist and the last thing that I studied before I converted to Catholicism was fundamentalists’ arguements against the Church. There was always a hole in the logic.

BTW - Don’t call it a false church. That is inappropriate behavior for a guest. (This is a Catholic forum, after all.)
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doulos1:
and isn’t every human action "unavoidably tainted by our fallen state?
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No, Grace enables a good act of will that the body can obey independent of an external stimulus to accomplish it. The conjugal act isn’t one of them.
 
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MaggieOH:
I take it that you have not bothered to read up why Galileo was placed under house arrest, and lived in luxury. If you had then you would know that it was not because of his teaching on the universe but what he was teaching about the Scripture. On that particular matter he was in error.

Maggie
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Really? The encyclopedia Wikipedia disagrees with you “Galileo was a devout Catholic, yet his writings on Copernican heliocentrism disturbed some in the Catholic Church, who believed in a geocentric model of the solar system. They argued that heliocentrism was in direct contradiction of the Bible, at least as interpreted by the church fathers, and the highly revered ancient writings of Aristotle and Plato.”

And more “The war became more and more bitter. The Dominican Father Caccini preached a sermon from the text, “Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven?” and this wretched pun upon the great astronomer’s name ushered in sharper weapons; for, before Caccini ended, he insisted that “geometry is of the devil,” and that “mathematicians should be banished as the authors of all heresies.” The Church authorities gave Caccini promotion.”

What a brilliant priest your church produced “geometry is of the devil?”

Here is another brilliant analysis from some Bishop or cardinal cited in the encyclopedia "But by far the most terrible champion who now appeared was Cardinal Bellarmin, one of the greatest theologians the world has known. He was earnest, sincere, and learned, but insisted on making science conform to Scripture. The weapons which men of Bellarmin’s stamp used were purely theological. They held up before the world the dreadful consequences which must result to Christian theology were the heavenly bodies proved to revolve about the Sun and not about the Earth. Their most tremendous dogmatic engine was the statement that “his pretended discovery vitiates the whole Christian plan of salvation.” Father Lecazre declared “it casts suspicion on the doctrine of the incarnation.” Others declared, “It upsets the whole basis of theology. If the Earth is a planet, and only one among several planets, it can not be that any such great things have been done specially for it as the Christian doctrine teaches. If there are other planets, since God makes nothing in vain, they must be inhabited; but how can their inhabitants be descended from Adam? How can they trace back their origin to Noah’s ark? How can they have been redeemed by the Saviour?”

Oh the dreadful consequences of the earth revolving around the sun.

So Maggie do you proudly throw your lot in with these men? Is as your brilliant priest said geometry of the devil? Have you been daily experiencing the dreadful consequences of the earth revolving around the sun.

I am ROFLOL at their comments. How about you!
 
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Lisa4Catholics:
That states He was the Son of Mary singular!Saint Joseph was a widower has it escaped your mind that he might have had children before his wife died?Or do you think St. Joseph was celibate with his first wife:whacky:
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Has it escaped your mind that the Bible no where says Joseph had a “first wife.” You can lay out conjecture all you want. The Scripture plainly teaches that:
  1. Mary and Joseph engaged in a marital relationship after the birth of Jesus. Matt. 1:25. No mention is made of other children of Joseph in Matt. 1 which as one of your members admit is the recollection of Joseph.
  2. That Jesus was Mary’s firstborn son, implying others afterword, (because there is a Greek word for only born son and the Holy Spirit did not use this word). Luke 2:7.
  3. That other children are listed amongst Mary as Jesus brothers and sisters Mark 6:3. To list them as brothers and sisters of Jesus would be quite sufficiant to show them as children of Mary. It would have been quite awkard for them to say “His brothers…the children of Mary.” It would have made no sense.
The normal, natural understanding of all these facts that these were children of Joseph and Mary after Jesus. If not why not simply:
  1. Omit the phrase “until she brought forth her firstborn son.” If the Holy Spirit had done this then there may have been room for your doctrine.
  2. Why not use the Greek word for only born son for Jesus instead of “firstborn.” If the Holy Spirit had used this word then the argument would have been settled, at least as it regards weather she had additional children.
  3. Why not use the Greek word for cousin instead of brother and sister. Luke certainly knew this word, and as a Greek would have used this if he knew that they were cousins.
All the evidence taken together shows that God teaches Mary was not perpetually a virgin and that your church and your popes are in error.
 
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doulos1:
Really? The encyclopedia Wikipedia disagrees with you “Galileo was a devout Catholic, yet his writings on Copernican heliocentrism disturbed some in the Catholic Church, who believed in a geocentric model of the solar system. They argued that heliocentrism was in direct contradiction of the Bible, at least as interpreted by the church fathers, and the highly revered ancient writings of Aristotle and Plato.”

And more “The war became more and more bitter. The Dominican Father Caccini preached a sermon from the text, “Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven?” and this wretched pun upon the great astronomer’s name ushered in sharper weapons; for, before Caccini ended, he insisted that “geometry is of the devil,” and that “mathematicians should be banished as the authors of all heresies.” The Church authorities gave Caccini promotion.”

What a brilliant priest your church produced “geometry is of the devil?”

Here is another brilliant analysis from some Bishop or cardinal cited in the encyclopedia "But by far the most terrible champion who now appeared was Cardinal Bellarmin, one of the greatest theologians the world has known. He was earnest, sincere, and learned, but insisted on making science conform to Scripture. The weapons which men of Bellarmin’s stamp used were purely theological. They held up before the world the dreadful consequences which must result to Christian theology were the heavenly bodies proved to revolve about the Sun and not about the Earth. Their most tremendous dogmatic engine was the statement that “his pretended discovery vitiates the whole Christian plan of salvation.” Father Lecazre declared “it casts suspicion on the doctrine of the incarnation.” Others declared, “It upsets the whole basis of theology. If the Earth is a planet, and only one among several planets, it can not be that any such great things have been done specially for it as the Christian doctrine teaches. If there are other planets, since God makes nothing in vain, they must be inhabited; but how can their inhabitants be descended from Adam? How can they trace back their origin to Noah’s ark? How can they have been redeemed by the Saviour?”

Oh the dreadful consequences of the earth revolving around the sun.

So Maggie do you proudly throw your lot in with these men? Is as your brilliant priest said geometry of the devil? Have you been daily experiencing the dreadful consequences of the earth revolving around the sun.

I am ROFLOL at their comments. How about you!
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Are you honestly going to use the encyclopedia Wikipedia as your source? The encyclopedia Wikipedia is a site that anyone can put the defenition in. I could go and write the answer for something on the encyclopedia wikipedia. It is not a reliable source for facts. It is a reliable source for someones opinion.
 
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Lisa4Catholics:
Peter was the first Pope not Paul and guess what…Paul was CELIBATE:eek: OOOOOhhhhhhhhhh!Arguments unraveling oh,angry one.Wrong again the Priests are called,nobody is forced to be a priest and priests go through formation they can discern whether they are being called to the married life or the priest hood.
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I never claimed that Paul was a pope, nor was Peter. What is interesting is the choice of Paul for celibacy was not a command of Paul for the leaders of the local church. Instead he said that they must be married. So Paul says they must be married and you awful popes prevent them from fulfilling the command of God through Paul. Because your popes are setting themselves against Christ. Or antichrist.
 
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doulos1:
Has it escaped your mind that the Bible no where says Joseph had a “first wife.” You can lay out conjecture all you want. The Scripture plainly teaches that:
  1. Mary and Joseph engaged in a marital relationship after the birth of Jesus. Matt. 1:25. No mention is made of other children of Joseph in Matt. 1 which as one of your members admit is the recollection of Joseph.
  2. That Jesus was Mary’s firstborn son, implying others afterword, (because there is a Greek word for only born son and the Holy Spirit did not use this word). Luke 2:7.
  3. That other children are listed amongst Mary as Jesus brothers and sisters Mark 6:3. To list them as brothers and sisters of Jesus would be quite sufficiant to show them as children of Mary. It would have been quite awkard for them to say “His brothers…the children of Mary.” It would have made no sense.
The normal, natural understanding of all these facts that these were children of Joseph and Mary after Jesus. If not why not simply:
  1. Omit the phrase “until she brought forth her firstborn son.” If the Holy Spirit had done this then there may have been room for your doctrine.
  2. Why not use the Greek word for only born son for Jesus instead of “firstborn.” If the Holy Spirit had used this word then the argument would have been settled, at least as it regards weather she had additional children.
  3. Why not use the Greek word for cousin instead of brother and sister. Luke certainly knew this word, and as a Greek would have used this if he knew that they were cousins.
All the evidence taken together shows that God teaches Mary was not perpetually a virgin and that your church and your popes are in error.
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Has it escaped your mind that the bible nowhere says that Mary the mother of Jesus had other children? In fact Mary made a vow of virginity in Luke 1.
 
So doulos you still didnt answer any of my questions, which of the thousands of protestant flags do you salute?

I believe this one question will expose him, he knows so and refuses to reply. He is a typical hit and run anti-Catholic.
 
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Benadam:
No, Grace enables a good act of will that the body can obey independent of an external stimulus to accomplish it. The conjugal act isn’t one of them.
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Without taint of sin? What have you done this week without taint of sin? I would be interested to know.
 
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doulos1:
Really? The encyclopedia Wikipedia disagrees with you “Galileo was a devout Catholic, yet his writings on Copernican heliocentrism disturbed some in the Catholic Church, who believed in a geocentric model of the solar system. They argued that heliocentrism was in direct contradiction of the Bible, at least as interpreted by the church fathers, and the highly revered ancient writings of Aristotle and Plato.”

And more “The war became more and more bitter. The Dominican Father Caccini preached a sermon from the text, “Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven?” and this wretched pun upon the great astronomer’s name ushered in sharper weapons; for, before Caccini ended, he insisted that “geometry is of the devil,” and that “mathematicians should be banished as the authors of all heresies.” The Church authorities gave Caccini promotion.”

What a brilliant priest your church produced “geometry is of the devil?”

Here is another brilliant analysis from some Bishop or cardinal cited in the encyclopedia "But by far the most terrible champion who now appeared was Cardinal Bellarmin, one of the greatest theologians the world has known. He was earnest, sincere, and learned, but insisted on making science conform to Scripture. The weapons which men of Bellarmin’s stamp used were purely theological. They held up before the world the dreadful consequences which must result to Christian theology were the heavenly bodies proved to revolve about the Sun and not about the Earth. Their most tremendous dogmatic engine was the statement that “his pretended discovery vitiates the whole Christian plan of salvation.” Father Lecazre declared “it casts suspicion on the doctrine of the incarnation.” Others declared, “It upsets the whole basis of theology. If the Earth is a planet, and only one among several planets, it can not be that any such great things have been done specially for it as the Christian doctrine teaches. If there are other planets, since God makes nothing in vain, they must be inhabited; but how can their inhabitants be descended from Adam? How can they trace back their origin to Noah’s ark? How can they have been redeemed by the Saviour?”

Oh the dreadful consequences of the earth revolving around the sun.

So Maggie do you proudly throw your lot in with these men? Is as your brilliant priest said geometry of the devil? Have you been daily experiencing the dreadful consequences of the earth revolving around the sun.

I am ROFLOL at their comments. How about you!
Click to expand...
I am tickled to death that this is such a big issue with you:rotfl: What’s wrong with you man:rotfl: Why don’t you clean your own house?You are obsessed:rotfl: Your casting stones will result in breaking your glass ego:eek:
 
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jimmy:
Has it escaped your mind that the bible nowhere says that Mary the mother of Jesus had other children? In fact Mary made a vow of virginity in Luke 1.
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Welcome to Roman Catholic fantasy island!! “de plane boss, the plane.!” Mary never made a vow of perpetual virginity that is a RC fantasy. LOL!
 
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Lisa4Catholics:
I am tickled to death that this is such a big issue with you:rotfl: What’s wrong with you man:rotfl: Why don’t you clean your own house?You are obsessed:rotfl: Your casting stones will result in breaking your glass ego:eek:
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So no admission that your assertion about Galileo was wrong? Interesting.
 
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jimmy:
Are you honestly going to use the encyclopedia Wikipedia as your source? The encyclopedia Wikipedia is a site that anyone can put the defenition in. I could go and write the answer for something on the encyclopedia wikipedia. It is not a reliable source for facts. It is a reliable source for someones opinion.
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Would you like me to post basically the same information from Encarta?
 
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doulos1:
Has it escaped your mind that the Bible no where says Joseph had a “first wife.” You can lay out conjecture all you want. The Scripture plainly teaches that:
  1. Mary and Joseph engaged in a marital relationship after the birth of Jesus. Matt. 1:25. No mention is made of other children of Joseph in Matt. 1 which as one of your members admit is the recollection of Joseph.
  2. That Jesus was Mary’s firstborn son, implying others afterword, (because there is a Greek word for only born son and the Holy Spirit did not use this word). Luke 2:7.
  3. That other children are listed amongst Mary as Jesus brothers and sisters Mark 6:3. To list them as brothers and sisters of Jesus would be quite sufficiant to show them as children of Mary. It would have been quite awkard for them to say “His brothers…the children of Mary.” It would have made no sense.
The normal, natural understanding of all these facts that these were children of Joseph and Mary after Jesus. If not why not simply:
  1. Omit the phrase “until she brought forth her firstborn son.” If the Holy Spirit had done this then there may have been room for your doctrine.
  2. Why not use the Greek word for only born son for Jesus instead of “firstborn.” If the Holy Spirit had used this word then the argument would have been settled, at least as it regards weather she had additional children.
  3. Why not use the Greek word for cousin instead of brother and sister. Luke certainly knew this word, and as a Greek would have used this if he knew that they were cousins.
All the evidence taken together shows that God teaches Mary was not perpetually a virgin and that your church and your popes are in error.
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Oops I am sorry I forgot your History of Christians started with Luther and you take out scriptures that don’t support your heresy:whistle: Your argument is null and void because you are not arguing for truth,you argue in an attempt to validate your hatred of Jesus’Church.God Bless
 
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