doulos1:
Has it escaped your mind that the Bible no where says Joseph had a “first wife.” You can lay out conjecture all you want. The Scripture plainly teaches that:
Like I said above, has it escaped your mind that it does not say Mary had other children? Not everything is contained in the bible.
doulos1:
- Mary and Joseph engaged in a marital relationship after the birth of Jesus. Matt. 1:25. No mention is made of other children of Joseph in Matt. 1 which as one of your members admit is the recollection of Joseph.
I have already answered this. The word until or till does not make any statement about what happened afterword. I could say, “he was thin until he died.” Does that mean he got fat after he died? It certainly does not. I also gave a link to a treatis by St. Jerome from the fourth century that speaks of this. He is a great source for this since he was a linguist.
doulos1:
- That Jesus was Mary’s firstborn son, implying others afterword, (because there is a Greek word for only born son and the Holy Spirit did not use this word). Luke 2:7.
Again, this does not imply anything about the future and whether Mary had any other children. When the angel of death killed all the first born in each household, God did not say, “only those with two children have a first born.” No first born is just as relevant to a parent with only one child. I believe St. Jerome speaks of this also.
doulos1:
- That other children are listed amongst Mary as Jesus brothers and sisters Mark 6:3. To list them as brothers and sisters of Jesus would be quite sufficiant to show them as children of Mary. It would have been quite awkard for them to say “His brothers…the children of Mary.” It would have made no sense.
The word brother was a very vague term at that time. It could refer to an uncle a cousin or even someone who was completely unrelated. Infact, Abraham called Lot his brother in genesis.
Those brothers you speak of; James, Joseph, Jude and Simon. They are the sons of one of the other Marys. Here is a verse from later in Mark in chapter 14 that mentions a couple of them.
40 And there were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalen, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joseph, and Salome:
If this was refering to Mary the mother of Jesus, then why would it refer to her as the mother of James and Joseph and not the mother of Jesus? Here is a verse from Acts of the Apostles.
13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode Peter and John, James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James of Alpheus, and Simon Zelotes, and Jude the brother of James.
14 All these were persevering with one mind in prayer with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
James and Jude were not the sons of Mary. Mary is not connected to them here at all.
doulos1:
The normal, natural understanding of all these facts that these were children of Joseph and Mary after Jesus. If not why not simply:
Now I bring in again the Luke 1 thing. It is understood, and it has been for the entire history of Christianity that Mary made a vow of virginity before she was concieved. The fact that the early Christians believed this is proved by the fact that Augustine mentions it in his treatise on virginity. All of the early Christian Church taught that Mary was a perpetual virgin. The idea that she was not, is a post reformation idea and has no foundation in scripture or in history.
doulos1:
- Omit the phrase “until she brought forth her firstborn son.” If the Holy Spirit had done this then there may have been room for your doctrine.
You have no support for your belief. You are grabbing at straws and looking for holes. You have gone into reading the scriptures with an idea of what you want to see before reading them.
doulos1:
- Why not use the Greek word for only born son for Jesus instead of “firstborn.” If the Holy Spirit had used this word then the argument would have been settled, at least as it regards weather she had additional children.
I refer you to above.
doulos1:
- Why not use the Greek word for cousin instead of brother and sister. Luke certainly knew this word, and as a Greek would have used this if he knew that they were cousins.
Why does Abraham refer to Lot as his brother?
doulos1:
All the evidence taken together shows that God teaches Mary was not perpetually a virgin and that your church and your popes are in error.
All the evidence taken together shows that you are grasping at straws.
Honor thy mother and father pretty clear in the commandments.She is our Mother
Read Revelation starting at 12:1 Keep reading till you get it right.Or did you take that book out too?
