How is the LDS a cult?

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mtolympus said:
That is absolutely correct. So what gives the Catholic Church the right to say who is and who is not a Christian?
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because it is the church of those ordained by the 11 apostles charged by Jesus to teach all men. It is the church that inherited the power to bind and loose, to define sins (provided those defined by God himself, including the decalogue, remain forever defined as sins, since God does not err in defining certain things as sinful). It is the church which Petros, formerly Simon, established abd lead, and was martyred for.
 
mtolympus said:
John 13:34-35

Yes, thanks for making that point for me. Christians are “disciples” of Christ. (Acts 11:26) Jesus told us how we can know the followers of Christ:

“A new commandment I give un to you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.” (John 13:34-35) emphasis added.

Porknpie, what you are saying here is that Catholics are right and Mormons are wrong. That is fine, you are entitled to your opinion. What you cannot say is that I do not believe that I am a follower of Christ.
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Sure we can. You do not follow the true Christ, so you can’t be a true Christian. That does not make you a bad person.
 
mtolympus said:
John 13:34-35

are right and Mormons are wrong.

That is fine, you are entitled to your opinion. What you cannot say is that I do not believe that I am a follower of Christ.
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Okay…but which Christ? The Christ believed by the CC since 2000 years ago or a Christ you define through the LDS?
 
mtolympus said:
That is absolutely correct. So what gives the Catholic Church the right to say who is and who is not a Christian?
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The authority to bind and loose was given to the Apostles…and Peter was given the Keys…from whom the CC can trace it roots.

Let me ask you…if not the CC, who? The LDS?
 
I think we need to be kind and say that the lds church is not a cult.

They are a business 🤷
 
Mtolympus…all people of good will work out their salvation, Vatican II. Likewise, I find Mormons’ response to the apostolic faith incomprehensible.

Can we say through no fault of one’s own, that one refuses to acknowledge the continuity, documented, historical span of 2,000 years that likewise provides hermeutical interpretation through the Holy Spirit of both Old and New Testaments?

The criteria for Mormon thought to believe that Christ turned His back on the countless martyrs who died for Him in the first 300 years does not reflect the One True God. Or why God would not come to help His people if let’s say there was some kind of apostasy…and let error go on for 1800 years…

And then when Mormons now decide they do not see LDS as credible, likewise suffer very much in the loss of family and the experience of shunning? \

Jesus Christ is objective truth. To imply ‘Christ is relative, and whatever you say He is…Christ is’. Sorry, you cannot reduce God down to your religion’s beliefs. They are not challenged within Mormonism…another sign of cult control. Note that when your belief systems allows man, without apostles and creed and continuity of belief and practice, you are putting yourself in the driver seat instead of God, likewise is part of the problem of the world’s thinking…man’s thinking not God’s thinking.

You are subsequently using the emotional standard of relativism which is the great tyranny and standard of world- think today. The Church condemns relativism.
 
mtolympus said:
That is absolutely correct. So what gives the Catholic Church the right to say who is and who is not a Christian?
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The obvious answer is that the Catholic Church was established by Jesus Christ Himself and was the first church developed with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

All religions have criteria and definitions. The founding members make the rules, so to speak.

I am sure the LDS church has a definition of what is takes to be a Mormon, right? You must recognize Joseph Smith as a prophet? Can I be a Mormon and say that I don’t?
Who decided that I have to accept JS as a prophet in order to be a temple worthy Mormon and why do I have to accept that person’s definition of what it takes to be Mormon?

Do you believe all definitions can be changed? Does anyone have the right to establish a definition based on initial beliefs? For example, the ancient definition of marriage. Or even, vegetarianism?
 
lax16 said:
The obvious answer is that the Catholic Church was established by Jesus Christ Himself and was the first church developed with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

All religions have criteria and definitions. The founding members make the rules, so to speak.

I am sure the LDS church has a definition of what is takes to be a Mormon, right? You must recognize Joseph Smith as a prophet? Can I be a Mormon and say that I don’t?
Who decided that I have to accept JS as a prophet in order to be a temple worthy Mormon and why do I have to accept that person’s definition of what it takes to be Mormon?

Do you believe all definitions can be changed? Does anyone have the right to establish a definition based on initial beliefs? For example, the ancient definition of marriage. Or even, vegetarianism?
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👍
 
The true definition of a Chistian, according to Jesus:

“And the disciples were were called Christians first in Antioch.” (Acts 11:26)

“A new commandment I give un to you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.” (John 13:34-35)

emphasis added
 
mtolympus said:
The true definition of a Chistian, according to Jesus:

“And the disciples were were called Christians first in Antioch.” (Acts 11:26)

“A new commandment I give un to you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.” (John 13:34-35)

emphasis added
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Again, you follow a made-up Christ, not the real one.
 
mtolympus said:
That is absolutely correct. So what gives the Catholic Church the right to say who is and who is not a Christian?
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The fact that it is the Church founded by Christ might be a good place to start. The fact that it received its doctrines and teachings directly from the Apostles would seem to be another factor. Of course the Catholic Church has the right to say who is and who is not a Christian. It was the only Christian Church in existence for many centuries so it pretty clearly defined what it means to be a Christian. The LDS Church has redefined what it means to suit its own purposes, but LDS doctrines are about as far from Christian as any I can imagine, and apparently the Church agrees.
 
TexanKnight said:
But it is truth. According to lds teaching
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With all of the amazing things I have heard from Mormon theology, I have never heard them call Jesus “the devil Christ”. There are plenty of things to discuss about the LDS faith. We don’t have to make things up. It seems that the intention by some on the Mormon threads anymore is to basically insult the Mormon posters to the point that they just leave. That statement is just one good example.
 
mtolympus said:
The true definition of a Chistian, according to Jesus:

“And the disciples were were called Christians first in Antioch.” (Acts 11:26)

And St. Ignatius of Antioch documents the first time in writing that the church was called Catholic … and wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. 😉

Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).
“A new commandment I give un to you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.” (John 13:34-35)

emphasis added
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Olypmpus -

I know that you have a love for Jesus but your understanding of Jesus is in error. It’s very Catholic to say that we are to love one another. These are Christ’s words. But he says more than that. He says that we need to listen to those that he taught. He taught the apostles and they taught their successors. Their successors (again, Priests & Bishops of the Catholic Church) taught their successors. What the apostles taught is not what the LDS church professes from the Gospel of Joseph Smith. So the LDS church is not listening to those who were taught by Christ. By not doing so, you are rejecting Christ. You are rejecting the Father.

Luke 10:16
16 “Whoever listens to you listens to me, and whoever rejects you rejects me, and whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me.”

Scripture is clear that we are NOT to listen to another Gospel than what was handed down through the apostles. Even if by an Angel. This NOT includes listening to a new Gospel, invented 1800+ years later by Joseph Smith. It is to be rejected.

Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should proclaim to you a gospel contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let that one be accursed

There was no apostasy. No great apostasy. You are following a false gospel written by a man who’s character was of ill repute, who practiced fraud (miracle oil, finding buried treasure, buried water), committed adultery, practiced polygamy and married 14 year old(s). And if he didn’t just make up his gospel on his own, he listened to an Angel and the bible specifically says not to listen to a new gospel, even if by an Angel.

Why do you reject the Word of Galatians 1:8?:confused:
 
SteveVH said:
With all of the amazing things I have heard from Mormon theology, I have never heard them call Jesus “the devil Christ”. There are plenty of things to discuss about the LDS faith. We don’t have to make things up. It seems that the intention by some on the Mormon threads anymore is to basically insult the Mormon posters to the point that they just leave. That statement is just one good example.
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They have taught that Jesus and satan were brothers. That was his point. And it is correct.
 
I don’t have time here to elaborate.

About being kind and loving is sufficient…

Jesus was most merciful. He healed and taught. But if that is all that He did, Christianity would not be here, and then Mormons could not work with it.

What made Christ effective was not being loving and kind. What made Christ effective was His suffering and dying on the Cross.

We are to pick up our cross for Him and follow Him. And this is why we have martyrs who have died for Jesus, and Mormons do not because they do not believe in the true Lord.
 
Literalist said:
For those on this post:

What is your definition of a cult?
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A group that irrationally follows a person.
Ezra Taft Benson:
In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.
  1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
    **2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
  2. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.**
  3. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
    5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
  4. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
  5. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
    **8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
  6. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.**
  7. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
  8. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
  9. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
  10. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
  11. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.
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Good post, Steve.

I will be back using Pope Benedict’s teachings from his year 2000 writing denouncing relativism and defining who is the True Jesus and what He is not, and the points he uses in stating why we must adhere to the true Jesus and not some relativist Jesus.
 
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