How is this even possible?

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ColoradoCatholic said:
I just think that there are two sides to this whole thing, either you go along with the mainstream media, or not ( I don’t trust the media at all). Honest question because that is what they are talking about.

And yes admittedly a bad post earlier, though I still believe it to be man made.
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No, you either go with the mainstream media, which in your view is not to be believed no matter what evidence they give, or you go with the media outlet that is Donald Trump, who is believed whether what he says has a shred of evidence to support it or not. He uses the distrust of the mainstream media to cultivate total trust in his willingness to say things that confirm his biases.

One of those biases is that he has no problems that cannot be fairly laid at someone else’s feet. He cannot be wrong, his performance cannot be improved and everything he says is meaningful. That’s not even reasonable. The President, by the nature of his position, takes responsibility for what goes on in his Administration, but there will be mistakes. Nothing as big as the US government trying to influence something as uncontrollable as the rest of life in the United States is going to be “perfect.” When someone tries to imply that this is possible, you know you’re getting a snow job.

This vague accusation he was making was not meaningful. Not only that, it is not a one-off misstatement. He repeats the “bad tests” excuse over and over. It is a deliberate attempt to say something that implies that any failures happening in 2020 are someone else’s fault. That he is trying to blame anything about his pandemic preparedness on a President who left office in January of 2017 shows how allergic to taking responsibility this President (and his supporters) are.
ColoradoCatholic said:
And yes admittedly a bad post earlier, though I still believe it to be man made.
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This belief, however, is not based on any part of the structure of the virus that could tell you its origin.

More to the point, do you really think the Communists are so stupid that they’d unleash a laboratory-made virus on their own country and cripple their own manufacturing base in the hopes that at some point a pandemic would be created that would take over the US and make Donald Trump look bad, even though it was a global pandemic? They’re a lot of things, but they are not that stupid.

If I am wrong, then go ahead and explain how medical testing in 2020 for any disease whatsoever has anything to do with the Obama Administration.
 
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ColoradoCatholic said:
Its also no surprise, given this detail, that the Hospitals receive more money to deal with a Covid-19 (~$13,000) death than a normal influenza death (~$5000). To me it seems like this was pushed out of proportion and propagated by the flow money.
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Hospitals have had to cancel elective procedures being done on patients who are fully ensured. They are losing buckets of money over this. They are hemorrhaging money over this.

And, once again, even if your preposterous deflecting accusations against hospitals were true it would have nothing to do with why the President would be spontaneously and repeatedly blaming the state of medical testing on the problem that some medical supplies in US government storage in 2020 are just as he found it all in January 2017 and therefore not up to a new virus that arose from any source whatsoever in late 2019.

Why is it so hard to just say, “Yeah, that part of his excuse was lame. I think he’s doing a good job, but even I have to admit that comment came out of nowhere”?

I will be fair: Some of his supporters can and do say that. Many, however, respond just as I have seen here.

It is fair to ask you always-defenders–why? Why are you so defensive that you cannot tolerate any criticism of Donald Trump? Doesn’t everyone doing such a complicated job deserve some corrections?
 
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ColoradoCatholic said:
We have statements from doctors that have come out recently saying that this is what they are being advised to do. Its also no surprise, given this detail, that the Hospitals receive more money to deal with a Covid-19 (~$13,000) death than a normal influenza death (~$5000).
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You need to clarify this.

Are you talking Medicare and the Diagnosis Related Grouping (DRG) applied to a covid-19 case or commercial insurance?
 
Well, yes, they do charge more if you are on a ventilator.

But yes, let’s look at his claim:
“How can anyone not believe that increasing the number of COVID-19 deaths may create an avenue for states to receive a larger portion of federal dollars. Already some states are complaining that they are not getting enough of the CARES Act dollars because they are having significantly more proportional COVID-19 deaths.”

If he looks at the statistics on excess deaths in various states, though, the chances are that COVID-19 deaths are being under-counted in heavily-hit states, not over-counted. (And which states, exactly, are complaining about not getting enough federal money for deaths their state isn’t having? I’d like to hear which ones those are.)

None of this has anything to do with how it is possible for the Obama Administration to be responsible for the state of the US government medical testing in 2020 for an infectious agent first discovered in 2019. Don’t forget to explain how that is even possible.
 
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PetraG said:
None of this has anything to do with how it is possible for the Obama Administration to be responsible for the state of the US government medical testing in 2020 for an infectious agent first discovered in 2019. Don’t forget to explain how that is even possible.
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After three years in office, Trump (or any President) OWNS EVERYTHING.

Trump just tries to deflect blame onto other people.
 
I get that you are anti Trump, But I’m going to be honest I think hes the best president we’ve had since the 90’s and its because hes upfront with what he believes and is willing to call out people on the BS.

That being said, its not the only reason I don’t trust the liberal media. Their whole agenda is being cooperated with social media (facebook, twitter, youtube) who sensor anything in the slightest that goes against their political interest/agenda (to me that sounds like tyranny, or a technological dictatorship). Remember when Trump a few days ago was talking about “injection of sunlight” into patients with Covid-19. He’s not a doctor and admittedly his presentation of the subject was a little rough (because hes the president and has like 10 million other things on his mind) but he knew what he was talking about.

What he was talking about was a company called Cedars-Sinai where they have a “catheter” they run down your wind pipe into your lungs and literally shine UV light which kills the virus. Its a REAL THING by a REAL COMPANY…you know what happened next? The video showing the prototype of the procedure was banned on social media! Why??? Why would a medical video be censored! The only feasible reason would be to make the president look bad. That to me is just plain wrong 100%. Look it up for yourself! its not impossible to find but very difficult!

But I could only find it here: https://banned.video/watch?id=5ea4aa8ddb9c4a006adf0943&t=250

same website has a link to the California Doctors exposing the very small death rates: https://banned.video/watch?id=5ea4994ea881fd00808e95ad&t=3134

The last reason that I don’t support them is pretty clear as a Catholic. Its because they support abortion, I know this is going to fire people up but If you support a political party that is pro-abortion you are not living up to the tenets of the faith. Abortion is wrong in all cases except very very few (where both mother and baby will die inevitably) and this has been discussed by the Pope multiple times. (Guess what, Trump was the 1ST PRESIDENT EVER TO ATTEND MARCH FOR LIFE he should earn the support of Catholics everywhere!)
 
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PaulinVA said:
After three years in office, Trump (or any President) OWNS EVERYTHING.

Trump just tries to deflect blame onto other people.
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Well, no, he doesn’t own everything, that has never been a realistic view of the influence of the President, but by now he ought to own SOMETHING. As it is, if he thinks it is good, it is all his doing. If not, it is someone else’s fault.

Mind you, he has supporters who see him like the car salesman who lies to your face but still gives you the best deal. They like most of what he does, but they don’t trust that anything is the way he says it is.

That seems at least reasonable to me.
 
PetraG said:
Well, no, he doesn’t own everything, that has never been a realistic view of the influence of the President, but by now he ought to own SOMETHING.
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I mean the tangibles of what an administration does. Not the stock market or economy.

Pandemic response? Yes
Government stockpiles? Yes
People in key positions? Yes
Funding for key agencies? Yes
 
IIRC, wasn’t Trump initially hesitant about having new ventilators built by means of signing off on the Defense Production Act? Wasn’t it the pressure of the governors that caused him to finally relent and start having the ventilators manufactured en masse? And didn’t he instead spend time chastising the governors for not having their own stockpiles?

Lest you think I am blaming ONLY Trump, I wonder myself why the governors did NOT have their own stockpiles, and why the hospitals were lacking in PPE? Money issues, I presume. But why didn’t the states and the hospitals prepare, even a little at a time, for an eventuality such as this?

I blame local, state, and federal government for their mutual incompetence.
 
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Trump is not exactly the “buck-stops-here” Truman-like kind of president, is he?
 
PaulinVA said:
I mean the tangibles of what an administration does. Not the stock market or economy.

Pandemic response? Yes
Government stockpiles? Yes
People in key positions? Yes
Funding for key agencies? Yes
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Yes, although with the enormity of the federal government, I do not expect anybody to fill the office of the Presidency without their Administration making any errors, including a few major errors. When you’re overseeing 2 million employees working in a vast array of projects under rules that didn’t all come from you and that aren’t all subject to your specifications, mistakes are going to be made. No one person can understand it all or be on top of it all.

Having said that, I would not give his handling of his Bully Pulpit a passing grade. No President has ever liked the press and most have probably despised the press, but President Trump has worked tirelessly to undermine all sources of information that do not rubber-stamp every word that comes out of his mouth. That is irresponsible and self-serving and it inflames not the distrust of authority that is well-placed and based on evidence but rather the mistrust that is based on blanket disapproval of the free press.

To blame everything on Donald Trump, however, would be just as bad as blaming everything on the press. It isn’t reasonable. I’m glad to hear your criticism was meant in a more narrow sense.
 
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Trump is just part of the baby-boom generation of leaders, my generation, so I know he doesn’t have a clue. And he’s a New Yorker, from Queens to boot, so it’s no wonder. Further, the next generation of leaders, the technological generation, is even more clueless. It just gets worse and worse with each succeeding generation, but the silver lining is that the people expect less, because they are also clueless.

A pessimistic philosophy you say? You bet, and I’m proud of it.
 
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meltzerboy2 said:
Trump is just part of the baby-boom generation of leaders, my generation, so I know he doesn’t have a clue. And he’s a New Yorker, from Queens to boot, so it’s no wonder. Further, the next generation of leaders, the technological generation, is even more clueless. It just gets worse and worse with each succeeding generation, but the silver lining is that the people expect less, because they are also clueless.

A pessimistic philosophy you say? You bet, and I’m proud of it.
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We could be hurtling towards the realization that our civilization is too big for us to understand sufficiently or control competently.
 
meltzerboy2 said:
Lest you think I am blaming ONLY Trump, I wonder myself why the governors did NOT have their own stockpiles, and why the hospitals were lacking in PPE? Money issues, I presume. But why didn’t the states and the hospitals prepare, even a little at a time, for an eventuality such as this?
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The need for PPE skyrocketed. Yes, US hospitals and clinics do share the national tendency to operating as close to projected need as possible. That leaves things in a bad way quick if there is a huge unforeseen need. (Some PPE do have a limited shelf life. Some of the defective masks had old elastic that would break spontaneously.) Another problem was that China makes a lot of the world’s PPE and they had an outbreak in a region with a number of PPE production facilities.
 
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meltzerboy2 said:
IIRC, wasn’t Trump initially hesitant about having new ventilators built by means of signing off on the Defense Production Act? Wasn’t it the pressure of the governors that caused him to finally relent and start having the ventilators manufactured en masse?
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My recollection, which could be wrong, is that he started using the DPA at least before the complaints ended, if not before they started.
 
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Annie said:
My recollection, which could be wrong, is that he started using the DPA at least before the complaints ended, if not before they started.
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Has any President ever done anything before complaints started, let alone before the complaints end?
No. This President is no exception to that rule. If he had started using the DPA after the complaints ended, it would have meant that he used it when it was so late that no one wanted him to use it any more (which is pretty hard to imagine, but if it had happened it would have meant he was way too late).

I’m not going to fault him for wanting to work out a cooperative agreement with companies rather than the Defense Production Act. Maybe he’s at fault for being slow, it is possible, but I don’t know enough to say that he wasn’t about right or even that he was early, if a single “right” time could even be identified (since I would hope we can agree that all uses of emergency federal power come with trade-offs).

He wasn’t dealing with a hurricane or a disaster that was a repeat of past disasters. This has been a new kind of disaster with a lot of disagreement over the best course. Any President would have had a very difficult set of decisions in dealing with it, because there was no “good way” through it.
 
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