How is traditional catholicism different from catholicism

[StGerardMajella]

Let me give a different spin to this conversation. Original question - How is traditional Catholicism different from (modern) Catholicism? Here’s one story:

First, the church that I grew up with and later served as an altar boy used the Novus Ordo Mass. However, the priest was very conservative, music was very traditional, and Mass was said with great reverence and respect.

I now prefer to attend a traditional Catholic Mass whenever possible. Both for the liturgy, and the reverence during the liturgy. The music - Gregorian Chant - is simply beautiful.

This Saturday, I went to a modern Catholic Church not far from my house. Music was - well, awful. Screeching music. They had a tambourine - Yikes. Tabernacle was at the side of the altar, not behind the center of the altar. Cross used during the entrance processional was placed behind a door in a closet or small room on the side of the altar, and not displayed.

Sermon was given not from the pulpit, from right in front of the first row of pews - like a Baptist revival as the priest walked to and fro. Reverence was completely missing from the liturgy. Deacon was wandering around on the altar chatting during the service, as was the priest before the service even started. Altar girls. Communion in the hand. No Holy Water at the entrance door, just a large baptismal pool. Raffle sale at the back of the Church - on a Sunday no less.

You get the idea. The positives? Priest was very warm, friendly, and very hospitable. One of the most friendly priests I have ever met. You can tell he cares about his parishioners. His heart is in the right place, even if the liturgy was in disarray. It would be a lot easier to meet people at this Church because they really foster a spirit of community.

By contrast, the traditional church I usually attend is rather cold sometimes. Priest never stays at the back of the church to greet parishioners. And attending Confession is brutal - Priest is very cold, and well, rude. Will never go to Confession at that church again. Priest is hostile, rude, in the Confessional. We also have a hard time meeting parishioners, because it’s very clique-ish and political.

So which one would you choose?

 

[maurin]

Let me give a different spin to this conversation. Original question - How is traditional Catholicism different from (modern) Catholicism? Here’s one story:

First, the church that I grew up with and later served as an altar boy used the Novus Ordo Mass. However, the priest was very conservative, music was very traditional, and Mass was said with great reverence and respect.

I now prefer to attend a traditional Catholic Mass whenever possible. Both for the liturgy, and the reverence during the liturgy. The music - Gregorian Chant - is simply beautiful.

This Saturday, I went to a modern Catholic Church not far from my house. Music was - well, awful. Screeching music. They had a tambourine - Yikes. Tabernacle was at the side of the altar, not behind the center of the altar. Cross used during the entrance processional was placed behind a door in a closet or small room on the side of the altar, and not displayed.

Sermon was given not from the pulpit, from right in front of the first row of pews - like a Baptist revival as the priest walked to and fro. Reverence was completely missing from the liturgy. Deacon was wandering around on the altar chatting during the service, as was the priest before the service even started. Altar girls. Communion in the hand. No Holy Water at the entrance door, just a large baptismal pool. Raffle sale at the back of the Church - on a Sunday no less.

were you at St. Rita’s Church?

You get the idea. The positives? Priest was very warm, friendly, and very hospitable. One of the most friendly priests I have ever met. You can tell he cares about his parishioners. His heart is in the right place, even if the liturgy was in disarray. It would be a lot easier to meet people at this Church because they really foster a spirit of community.

By contrast, the traditional church I usually attend is rather cold sometimes. Priest never stays at the back of the church to greet parishioners. And attending Confession is brutal - Priest is very cold, and well, rude. Will never go to Confession at that church again. Priest is hostile, rude, in the Confessional. We also have a hard time meeting parishioners, because it’s very clique-ish and political.

So which one would you choose?

If you feel your priest is inappropriate in the confessional, you may certainly speak to him in the confessional about how you are feeling…while it is true that he may be inappropriate, it is equally true that you are misinterpreting his responses to you…only you and he and God are there, so only the three of you will know, and you will only know if you speak to him and Him about it.

I too found initially a certain ‘coldness’ in the people who assist at the SSPX Mass I attend. The Priest, though, sought me out immediately after my first Mass and asked if I would like “to talk.” We talked for about 1/2 an hour in the Sacristy, and he made me comfortable. After Mass the people have coffee and cake and chat outside the Chapel. I found that as I introduced myself people were quite warm and friendly.

At St. Rita’s and other Diocesan Parishes in this area, I found the greeters to be intrusive, both outside and inside the Church. Forget about praying before Mass–and not just because of the circus atmosphere fostered by the “faithful.” The greeters interrupted my prayers to shake my hand and make me feel welcome so “I would not be alone in my journey.” I finally felt it obvious to explain that in prayer I am not alone in my journey, I have a much better partner in God or His Blessed Mother. Nor did I think it appropriate for the Priest to sit on the Baptismal Pool his back against the Font, his legs up as if he were on a recliner, chatting loudly in order to be heard above the din of the “faithful.” His kind of “getting to know you” had nothing to do with God or worship, but everything to do with himself. I was embarrassed for him.

Nothing is easy, Gerard Majella. But with perseverence and faith, you can understand any uncomfortable situation and with God’s Grace, you can turn it around.

I hope you try…I willl offer a prayer for your edification.

 

[pnewton]

No Holy Water at the entrance door, just a large baptismal pool.

This raised an eyebrow for me. I do not know what you mean by now Holy Water, yet then they had a baptistry. Was the baptistry empty?

 

[StGerardMajella]

first, no, it was not st. rita’s.

also, i would have liked to discuss the priest’s behavior - which was plain rude and frankly, obnoxious, in the confessional - but he was in a rush to say mass and cut the confession short. my privacy was compromised as well, for when i left the confessional, he immediately followed me. he also forgot the absolution, which made the confession invalid. i won’t go so far as to say that he was verbally abusive, but he certainly wasn’t acting in good faith according to the sacrament of reconciliation.

his behavior was despicable. a person saying confession is very vulnerable - they should be treated respectfully, not harshly. it is not a simple matter to honestly and truthfully admit one’s sins. if i was being disingenuous, that would be another matter, but the priest’s behavior was appalling.

it reminded me of the horror stories of padre pio refusing to hear some sinner’s confessions, and throwing them out of the confessional. for all my admiration of padre pio, this kind of behavior by priests during the sacrament of reconciliation is totally unacceptable for a true confessor.

as far as holy water is concerned, there is usually a holy water font at the entrance door of every Catholic church i have ever attended. in this case, there was none. but i did see a small pool - about 10 feet by 7 feet - in the shape of a cross, filled with water, that i assumed was used a baptismal font. i saw someone dip their finger in the pool and make the sign of the cross when they entered the church, which led me to believe that it was holy water. strange.

welcome to the world of the new age church.

 

[pnewton]

welcome to the world of the new age church.

Or the old world church. Sprinking was always a matter of convenience, not doctrine. The first order of preference goes all the back to the Didache, which stated that immersion was to be preferred over pouring. Sprinkling became in vogue as most of the Eurpoean world became Catholic and most baptisms were done on infants. It was easier and more practical.

I am all for adhering to traditions, even with a small “t” but not if the reason for it no longer exists. Still I am surprised there was not also a holy water font. Perhaps you missed it?

 

[maurin]

first, no, it was not st. rita’s.

also, i would have liked to discuss the priest’s behavior - which was plain rude and frankly, obnoxious, in the confessional - but he was in a rush to say mass and cut the confession short. my privacy was compromised as well, for when i left the confessional, he immediately followed me. he also forgot the absolution, which made the confession invalid. i won’t go so far as to say that he was verbally abusive, but he certainly wasn’t acting in good faith according to the sacrament of reconciliation.

his behavior was despicable. a person saying confession is very vulnerable - they should be treated respectfully, not harshly. it is not a simple matter to honestly and truthfully admit one’s sins. if i was being disingenuous, that would be another matter, but the priest’s behavior was appalling.

it reminded me of the horror stories of padre pio refusing to hear some sinner’s confessions, and throwing them out of the confessional. for all my admiration of padre pio, this kind of behavior by priests during the sacrament of reconciliation is totally unacceptable for a true confessor.

as far as holy water is concerned, there is usually a holy water font at the entrance door of every Catholic church i have ever attended. in this case, there was none. but i did see a small pool - about 10 feet by 7 feet - in the shape of a cross, filled with water, that i assumed was used a baptismal font. i saw someone dip their finger in the pool and make the sign of the cross when they entered the church, which led me to believe that it was holy water. strange.

welcome to the world of the new age church.

St. Gerard Majella,

I’m very sorry that you had these experiences. I know I would be just as confused and hurt if that happened to me. May God give you the Grace to forgive the Priest. I too would find a different Confessor, if I were faced with the same treatment.

Good luck to you, and May God Bless you to find one.

 

[elts1956]

Let me give a different spin to this conversation. Original question - How is traditional Catholicism different from (modern) Catholicism? Here’s one story:

First, the church that I grew up with and later served as an altar boy used the Novus Ordo Mass. However, the priest was very conservative, music was very traditional, and Mass was said with great reverence and respect.

I now prefer to attend a traditional Catholic Mass whenever possible. Both for the liturgy, and the reverence during the liturgy. The music - Gregorian Chant - is simply beautiful.

This Saturday, I went to a modern Catholic Church not far from my house. Music was - well, awful. Screeching music. They had a tambourine - Yikes. Tabernacle was at the side of the altar, not behind the center of the altar. Cross used during the entrance processional was placed behind a door in a closet or small room on the side of the altar, and not displayed.

Sermon was given not from the pulpit, from right in front of the first row of pews - like a Baptist revival as the priest walked to and fro. Reverence was completely missing from the liturgy. Deacon was wandering around on the altar chatting during the service, as was the priest before the service even started. Altar girls. Communion in the hand. No Holy Water at the entrance door, just a large baptismal pool. Raffle sale at the back of the Church - on a Sunday no less.

You get the idea. The positives? Priest was very warm, friendly, and very hospitable. One of the most friendly priests I have ever met. You can tell he cares about his parishioners. His heart is in the right place, even if the liturgy was in disarray. It would be a lot easier to meet people at this Church because they really foster a spirit of community.

By contrast, the traditional church I usually attend is rather cold sometimes. Priest never stays at the back of the church to greet parishioners. And attending Confession is brutal - Priest is very cold, and well, rude. Will never go to Confession at that church again. Priest is hostile, rude, in the Confessional. We also have a hard time meeting parishioners, because it’s very clique-ish and political.

So which one would you choose?

It is a shame we can’t combine the best of both, isn’t it. But I am “almost” of the opinion of going with the coldness of the priest (find someone else for confession, coward that I am) as long as the true fundamentals of the teachings of the Church were upheld.

There are few churches in my area that lean more to the traditional than the modern. The more I read about some of the abuses in the church, the more I fear for it.

I suppose I am being too “traditional”, I have no idea what goes on in another parish as far as catechesis, but this past Sunday I attended Mass at a Church I attended many years ago. I set myself up thinking the Mass would be the same as when I left for my home Parish. All was well until the homily. The gospel was about the host inviting people to the wedding banquet. Well when the deacon gave the homily all I heard was the garment was to be put on every day in your relationship to others. NOTHING about Sanctifying Grace. Do they still teach about that these days? I was very disappointed, but maybe I am expecting too much in too short a time given by the length of the Mass. People just seem soooooooo lethargic there and also at my Parish Church.

 

[lentang2]

Hi again I Believe,
I’m afraid I’m too new to Catholicism to understand half of what you are talking about.
Who is VII? Who is VI? Who are Fellay and Mary? Who are the Call to Action folks?

Who would lay (what?) “mess” on Pope Benedict XVI’s shoulders?

What did Pope Benedict do wrong?

Im sorry, I don’t know if the OP or moderators will allow my questions or if they are “off topic”. If you want to explain it to me then great If not then its okay too. I’ll learn as I go.

Warning - You are opening up Pandora’s Box with this group…careful if you are new to the Faith…you will get odd ideas here.

 

[palmas85]

Warning - You are opening up Pandora’s Box with this group…careful if you are new to the Faith…you will get odd ideas here.

Especially if the posters reads your stuff

 

[lentang2]

Especially if the posters reads your stuff

I see ‘cheap shot’ is now infecting the thread…

 

[bkovacs]

So you are an ex-Catholic?

I asked because normally most ex-catholics here are not real plugged in to what is happening in the Church, much less what the next conclave will be like

Ex-“Novus Ordo Roman Catholic”. The Orthodox are also Catholics!. They recite the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed in the original form.

“And [we believe] in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father; who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets. In one Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.”

 

[pnewton]

Ex-“Novus Ordo Roman Catholic”. The Orthodox are also Catholics!. They recite the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed in the original form.

I meant what I said and I never use that prejudicial term “novus ordo.” The Orthodox Churches are not in communion with Rome and are not Catholic. That made that mistake 1000 years ago. Do you perhaps mean instead that you are an Eastern Rite Catholic.

 

[Lisa44]

Let me give a different spin to this conversation. Original question - How is traditional Catholicism different from (modern) Catholicism? Here’s one story:

First, the church that I grew up with and later served as an altar boy used the Novus Ordo Mass. However, the priest was very conservative, music was very traditional, and Mass was said with great reverence and respect.

I now prefer to attend a traditional Catholic Mass whenever possible. Both for the liturgy, and the reverence during the liturgy. The music - Gregorian Chant - is simply beautiful.

This Saturday, I went to a modern Catholic Church not far from my house. Music was - well, awful. Screeching music. They had a tambourine - Yikes. Tabernacle was at the side of the altar, not behind the center of the altar. Cross used during the entrance processional was placed behind a door in a closet or small room on the side of the altar, and not displayed.

Sermon was given not from the pulpit, from right in front of the first row of pews - like a Baptist revival as the priest walked to and fro. Reverence was completely missing from the liturgy. Deacon was wandering around on the altar chatting during the service, as was the priest before the service even started. Altar girls. Communion in the hand. No Holy Water at the entrance door, just a large baptismal pool. Raffle sale at the back of the Church - on a Sunday no less.

You get the idea. The positives? Priest was very warm, friendly, and very hospitable. One of the most friendly priests I have ever met. You can tell he cares about his parishioners. His heart is in the right place, even if the liturgy was in disarray. It would be a lot easier to meet people at this Church because they really foster a spirit of community.

By contrast, the traditional church I usually attend is rather cold sometimes. Priest never stays at the back of the church to greet parishioners. And attending Confession is brutal - Priest is very cold, and well, rude. Will never go to Confession at that church again. Priest is hostile, rude, in the Confessional. We also have a hard time meeting parishioners, because it’s very clique-ish and political.

So which one would you choose?

Hi StGerardMajella,
I chose the traditional church, (and the differences here are similar to those you mentioned), for the simple reason that I do not go to Mass to meet people, or hear good music, or laugh at funny jokes, or hold hands, or sing a lot…etc.

For me, and I’m a new convert, the Mass is my time to be with Jesus. Its all about worship for me. I prefer as few distractions as possible. Mass should be like it is in a monastery. At least thats what I think. That is what I prefer. I’ve got 6 days a week to run around like a chicken chatting with people and listening to music and holding hands (WITH MY HUSBAND ONLY).

first, no, it was not st. rita’s.

also, i would have liked to discuss the priest’s behavior - which was plain rude and frankly, obnoxious, in the confessional - but he was in a rush to say mass and cut the confession short. my privacy was compromised as well, for when i left the confessional, he immediately followed me. he also forgot the absolution, which made the confession invalid. i won’t go so far as to say that he was verbally abusive, but he certainly wasn’t acting in good faith according to the sacrament of reconciliation.

his behavior was despicable. a person saying confession is very vulnerable - they should be treated respectfully, not harshly. it is not a simple matter to honestly and truthfully admit one’s sins. if i was being disingenuous, that would be another matter, but the priest’s behavior was appalling.

it reminded me of the horror stories of padre pio refusing to hear some sinner’s confessions, and throwing them out of the confessional. for all my admiration of padre pio, this kind of behavior by priests during the sacrament of reconciliation is totally unacceptable for a true confessor.

as far as holy water is concerned, there is usually a holy water font at the entrance door of every Catholic church i have ever attended. in this case, there was none. but i did see a small pool - about 10 feet by 7 feet - in the shape of a cross, filled with water, that i assumed was used a baptismal font. i saw someone dip their finger in the pool and make the sign of the cross when they entered the church, which led me to believe that it was holy water. strange.

welcome to the world of the new age church.

Yes, you raise a VALID point. This is my bone of contention precisely with the novus ordo Mass. Its as if the Ca’tholic Church has been infected with the New Age! When I think ‘holding hands’ I think hippies, and ‘love and lighters’. The new age. When I hear a lot of singing and music I feel like I’m in a protestant church. I just want to know where the Catholics are?
But I think I found them at the Traditional Mass .

 

[pnewton]

I just want to know where the Catholics are?
But I think I found them at the Traditional Mass .

This statement can easily be taken to imply that you do not believe others you met at the normative Mass were real Catholics. I no you do not directly say this, but it if you do feel this way, I would point out that it would be rather judgemental to say that the large majority of Catholics aren’t real Cathlics.

 

[bkovacs]

I meant what I said and I never use that prejudicial term “novus ordo.” The Orthodox Churches are not in communion with Rome and are not Catholic. That made that mistake 1000 years ago. Do you perhaps mean instead that you are an Eastern Rite Catholic.

The Orthodox “ARE” Catholic. They have valid sacraments!.

 

[bkovacs]

I meant what I said and I never use that prejudicial term “novus ordo.” The Orthodox Churches are not in communion with Rome and are not Catholic. That made that mistake 1000 years ago. Do you perhaps mean instead that you are an Eastern Rite Catholic.

Now let me reverse this comment. Are Roman Catholics “Orthodox”. I think you will find that before the Schism of 1054 Roman Catholics were Orthodox. Before the Roman Catholic Church separated itself from Worldwide Orthodoxy.

 

[bkovacs]

Hi StGerardMajella,
I chose the traditional church, (and the differences here are similar to those you mentioned), for the simple reason that I do not go to Mass to meet people, or hear good music, or laugh at funny jokes, or hold hands, or sing a lot…etc.

For me, and I’m a new convert, the Mass is my time to be with Jesus. Its all about worship for me. I prefer as few distractions as possible. Mass should be like it is in a monastery. At least thats what I think. That is what I prefer. I’ve got 6 days a week to run around like a chicken chatting with people and listening to music and holding hands (WITH MY HUSBAND ONLY).

Yes, you raise a VALID point. This is my bone of contention precisely with the novus ordo Mass. Its as if the Ca’tholic Church has been infected with the New Age! When I think ‘holding hands’ I think hippies, and ‘love and lighters’. The new age. When I hear a lot of singing and music I feel like I’m in a protestant church. I just want to know where the Catholics are?
But I think I found them at the Traditional Mass .

You mean infected with Protestantism!.

 

[Lisa44]

You mean infected with Protestantism!.

Yes!

 

[StGerardMajella]

i don’t ever remember these changes 20-25 years ago. has this been a gradual transition where the novus ordo keeps getting worse over time?

as a young man, i served as an altar boy, and the novus ordo then was much more traditional than what i see now - today.

the music was more traditional back then too - ave maria, holy holy holy, faith of our fathers, etc. i can hardly recognize the music that i hear now - it’s just awful.

who allowed all of these radical changes? since when did it become the norm to place the tabernacle at the side of the altar? i don’t get it.

 

[pnewton]

The Orthodox “ARE” Catholic. They have valid sacraments!.

Believe what you want. I wasn’t questioning the validity of the sacraments, just their communion with Rome. Saying it again doesn’t make it so, just like that garbage about the Roman Catholic Church separating itself from Rome. No doubt you do not think you are derailing this thread either.

The point is that an ex-Catholic (as viewed from a Catholic point of view, not your own) is not viewed by me as having any more authority on the workings of the Vatican than any other outsider. When a citizen of this country renounces his citizenship, he is usually not consulted to lecture on American history.