How justify abortion in case of rape or incest?

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jrgmercado said:
Personally, I can understand the exception for rape. For me, the thought of someone that has already be violated having to carry the product of experience for months afterwards. All those happy milestones that would normally accompany a pregnancy would be another reminder.
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The trauma of rape will haunt the woman forever regardless of whether she chooses to kill the child
 
goout said:
I am Catholic and 100% pro life. And I accept with common sense that rape is a heinous crime. And I don’t pretend to have an easy pat on the back for someone who is violated.
I also accept that victimizing two people won’t atone for a crime or take away the sting of it, in fact making two victims multiplies the crime and the resulting injustice.
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My post states that I am 100% pro-choice, not pro-life. It would appear someone quoted me and changed my statement. I am not sure why they would do that.
 
If you break any of the Lords 10 commandments you have sinned in his eyes.

Abortion and adultery have not broken legal laws but God’s laws are not the same !!

James 2:10
10 Whoever breaks one commandment is guilty of breaking them all.

11 For the same one who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Even if you do not commit adultery, you have become a lawbreaker if you commit murder.
 
If any of us have broken any of the these Commandments below we have done wrong and need forgiveness. So be careful judging murders and mothers who have had abortions. You think murders and rapists who have shown true repentance are not allowed in to the garden of heaven. You’ve clearly misread Gods Word.

Adultery.
Misused the lords name.
Not keeping the Sabbath Holy.
Disrespected your parents.
Stolen anything ?
Gossip or false evidence against anyone else.
Or been jealous.
Any false idols in our home which includes statues of monks , music artists and items from holidays.

We may not be breaking any laws of our government but you are breaking Gods laws which are not the same thing.
 
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englands123 said:
If any of us have broken any of the these Commandments below we have done wrong and need forgiveness. So be careful judging murders and mothers who have had abortions. You think murders and rapists who have shown true repentance are not allowed in to the garden of heaven. You’ve clearly misread Gods Word.
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No one here supports such ideas. And you were just talking about not casting stones too.
 
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englands123 said:
Any false idols in our home which includes statues of monks , music artists and items from holidays.
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Statues of monks or of anything are only idols if people give them worship that is due God alone.

Music artists are morally neutral, again, some very disturbed people may give a favorite artist worship that is due God alone, however, that is an outlier.

Holiday items? Where are you getting these ideas?
 
TheLittleLady said:
Music artists are morally neutral, again, some very disturbed people may give a favorite artist worship that is due God alone, however, that is an outlier.
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People in their right minds do not worship musicians. There is something of a hyperdulia cult surrounding Elvis Presley among his hardcore fans, but that does not quite rise to the level of “worship”. Elvis was an awesomely talented musician, and by all accounts was a man of faith with some flaws — we all have flaws — seemingly a fundamentally decent person.

I wouldn’t drive 500 miles out of my way, but if I were passing through Memphis or Tupelo, and had time, I wouldn’t mind seeing Graceland or his birthplace.
 
englands123 said:

The Ten Commandments​

  1. You shall have no other Gods but me.
  2. You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it.
  3. You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.
  4. You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy.
  5. Respect your father and mother.
  6. You must not commit murder.
  7. You must not commit adultery.
  8. You must not steal.
  9. You must not give false evidence against your neighbour.
  10. You must not be envious of your neighbour’s goods. You shall not be envious of his house nor his wife, nor anything that belongs to your neighbour.
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Well, the Catholic numbering is slightly different.
 
For those who are pro-life/anti-abortion even in the case of rape or incest, are you prepared to render assistance to those women who are then forced to carry a baby they may very well not want?

If you are saying, “Yes, have the baby and if you don’t want it we will take it and find it a new home” this is a much better plan than just telling them, “Your problem, deal with it”.

It’s not much of a choice when faced with having an unwanted child that you’re stuck with for life, or having an abortion and being able to walk away. Give these women and girls a viable option if they don’t want babies resulting from rape or incest.

At the Catholic hospital where I work we have a Safe Haven program where a woman can walk in, hand her baby over to a nurse, and walk away- no questions asked. It’s not perfect, and there’s a lot of room for misuse of the system, but at least it’s something.
 
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John_the_Blind said:
It’s not much of a choice when faced with having an unwanted child that you’re stuck with for life
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Since most people on this site are located in Western nations, in what Western nation is a woman compelled to keep a child to whom she gives birth? They all have the option to put the baby up for adoption and to give the baby to the state.
 
While that’s true in the West, what are the options for those NOT in the West? Do we say ‘no abortion for you- give your baby up for adoption’ to that lady in Bangladesh? That is, assuming there is even a place where she CAN give up her baby.

If adoption is available, then certainly one should opt to do that rather than abort. I’m on board with that.

But if there is no adoption option open to the lady- what then?
 
John_the_Blind said:
At the Catholic hospital where I work we have a Safe Haven program where a woman can walk in, hand her baby over to a nurse, and walk away- no questions asked. It’s not perfect, and there’s a lot of room for misuse of the system, but at least it’s something.
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Every state has Safe Haven Laws. Making these known is very important. We need this information available in every school, in libraries, on billboards, on Social Media ads:

https://www.nationalsafehavenalliance.org/states/

Very much there needs to be a better system to provide these women in crisis with the best medical, legal, emotional, psychological, physical care. They need to feel 100% loved and supported, they need to know that they are heroes for placing a child for adoption.
 
For all of those objections that can be raised in considering the question of a woman having an abortion due to rape or incest, horrible as these things are, I would like to see those objections prefaced by “I know it is murder, but…”, and then see how it sounds.

And one more thing: in all of this, and in many other situations where moral questions are concerned, we are always so, so careful “not to judge”. The woman’s moral culpability is not at issue here. Our society has created a “safety hatch” of legal abortion, and I realize it could be incredibly tempting to take advantage of it. One discreet trip to an abortion clinic, problem solved, no one ever has to know. I realize that we as Catholics are a religious minority, and counter-cultural at that, and no one wants to come across as judgmental. Our society doesn’t like to see people being judgmental. It is absolutely true that we cannot judge souls, but if we can’t judge behavior, then there is no use even to consider moral questions. To express the sentiment as “I know it is murder, but I cannot judge” puts things into a new light altogether.
 
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Human soul exists in various degrees. In the fetus it starts at the level of vegetal soul having properties of nutrition & growth. Then it becomes animal soul with features of movement and perception. With intellectual maturity it becomes a rational soul. The human body-soul unit can be envisioned as a continuous spectrum on the one end of it is the physical body followed by vegetal soul, then animal soul and finally rational soul. The various faculties of human soul do not make soul a composite structure instead these faculties are actualized in the soul such that there is unity of soul’s attributes and its essence
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Source- Human soul and the philosophy of transubstantial motion - Conference on Medicine and Religion

If in the early stage of pregnancy, the fetus is only a vegetative soul, it would not be murder.
 
It’s nowhere near fully developed. It may be living, but at that point it is merely a part of a woman’s body, like an organ, a non vital organ.
 
We are not to kill another human being.

The ensoulment is a matter for philosophy and theology, it bears no weight in the taking of a human life. Direct Abortion is an intrinsic evil, regardless of ensoulment.
 
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