How many Catholics are being put off by the new Mass translation?

[juno24]

hmm, if adding parts in Latin isn’t part of the new Mass, maybe my priest is adding the Latin… I’ll ask him — and ask him to change it back to English if it’s not required.

Maybe he’s using more Latin at different scheduled Masses? I’ll ask him and just change the time I go to the one using less Latin. That will help.

When the bishops at the 2nd Vatican Council agreed to reform the liturgy and to allow greater use of the vernacular in the Mass, they did not intend for all Latin to be jettisoned from the liturgy. Your priest sounds like one of the few in the US who is actually trying to hold fast to the norms set up by Vatican II. If you truly dislike hearing a few words, phrases, or prayers said in Latin, then you do have the option of going to a Mass where it is not used so frequently. I like your suggestion of talking to the priest. He should be able to tell you which Masses at your parish do not use as much Latin.

 

[Rence]

I LOVE LOVE LOVE “Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof but only say the word and my soul shall be healed,” and I will defend that change to the death to anyone who doesn’t like it.

I actually like that change too.

On the Latin, some of that may be Advent, you know. Last night at Mass, there was quite a lot of Latin and that church doesn’t use Latin a whole lot. I know -0- Latin except singing Adeste Fidelus on Christmas. So I felt a bit left out, but as I looked around, a lot of people also weren’t singing along so…

Yeah that might be it. I hope that’s it

There’s a great video about the changes, have you seen it? It was made by Life Teen but it explains clearly and simply what has happened and why. (I like Thomas’ acting, too!)

No, to be honest, I didn’t think it was going to be that big a deal because I thought it was only going to be a more traditional English version. I just didn’t expect all the Latin. I bought a kindle book explaining the Mass changes a few minutes ago. Maybe that’ll help

 

[ProVobis]

hmm, if adding parts in Latin isn’t part of the new Mass, maybe my priest is adding the Latin… I’ll ask him — and ask him to change it back to English if it’s not required.

If you ever studied linguistics you’d find more than half of English has been morphed from codified Latin. Take away Latin and all you have is barbarism.

Have you seen this clip yet?

youtube.com/watch?v=UD4VlsLIZfI

 

[puzzleannie]

I
[One of my 40-something friends said casually … does the new translation mean that everything he has expressed a belief in all these years seems to have been “invalid”.]

.

not invalid, just not as accurate as it could have been

90% of Catholics don’t care one way or the other, and just say whatever the missalette or worship aid says.

 

[BVM_1221]

At the three Western Rite churches that I attend, I have seen no change whatever in attendance. And obviously the change had no effect on the Eastern Rite church I attend on Sunday Morning.:dts:

 

[Brendan]

I would talk to the priest If I where you. The purpose of the new translation is to have the English version closer in translation to the original Latin not to be in Latin.

On the other hand, using the new translation does not preclude a priest from using elements of the normative Latin text .

That has always been an option.

Remember that Vat II allowed the use of the vernacular, and promoted the use of some element of vernacular in addition to Latin.

Vat II also allowed the local bishops conferences to use entirely vernacular if they so wished, but that is an allowance, not a mandate.

1. In Masses which are celebrated with the people, a suitable place may be allotted to their mother tongue. This is to apply in the first place to the readings and “the common prayer,” but also, as local conditions may warrant, to those parts which pertain to the people, according to the norm laid down in Art. 36 of this Constitution.

Nevertheless steps should be taken so that the faithful may also be able to say or to sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them.

Sacrosanctum Concillium, Vatican II

The use of Latin in the Mass might be your pastors way of ensuring that the faithful be able to say or sing the parts of the Mass in Latin. In other words, he is obeying the instructions of Vatican II.

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

When the bishops at the 2nd Vatican Council agreed to reform the liturgy and to allow greater use of the vernacular in the Mass, they did not intend for all Latin to be jettisoned from the liturgy. Your priest sounds like one of the few in the US who is actually trying to hold fast to the norms set up by Vatican II. If you truly dislike hearing a few words, phrases, or prayers said in Latin, then you do have the option of going to a Mass where it is not used so frequently. I like your suggestion of talking to the priest. He should be able to tell you which Masses at your parish do not use as much Latin.

I find it strange that the same people (at least Americans) who complain about the use of Latin in parts of the Mass have no trouble using Spanish words like “adios” or “hasta la vista” in everyday speech, even when they don’t know any more Spanish than that. I have never heard anyone say “sayonara” and receive complaints about the use of Japanese in his speech.

However, many people have what appears to be an allergic reaction to liturgical Latin (as opposed to legal Latin, which hasn’t received complaints in hundreds of years). They fear that if the priest starts using a few Latin Mass parts, by this time next year the Tridentine Mass will replace the Novus Ordo and they’ll be back in the “bad old days” when those who didn’t read their missals didn’t know what was going on. Of course, isn’t that the case today?

They call it turning back the clock. I call it steering the car back onto the road.

 

[TheMc]

I would talk to the priest If I where you. The purpose of the new translation is to have the English version closer in translation to the original Latin not to be in Latin.

You’re right, but a translation is only a translation. Latin is the norm in the Roman Catholic Church. Translations are used with permission.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I actually like that change too.

Yeah that might be it. I hope that’s it

No, to be honest, I didn’t think it was going to be that big a deal because I thought it was only going to be a more traditional English version. I just didn’t expect all the Latin. I bought a kindle book explaining the Mass changes a few minutes ago. Maybe that’ll help

I think it will help. At first I was distressed about the changes but as I learned more about how it all took place and how the rest of the world responds in the same way we are, I felt even more that One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church thing, you know??



Now we here in the US match everyone else. And the Mea Culpa! That’s right out of my childhood! My mother was very devout and I remember “Through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault” very clearly (and with no concurrent guilt).

I’m not a person who enjoys change for the sake of it, so I didn’t expect to like the changes as much as I do. I give credit to the Holy Spirit for that.

 

[Ubenedictus]

It takes away from the experience for me because I hate the new changes and I hate Latin. I find it very distracting. If you are getting out of it what you expect to get out of it, that’s great. But not everyone is the same. I can’t say for sure if I’ll still hate it in the future, it might grow on me. But if I know myself, I will probably hate it because I hate the parts that are in Latin. I’ll probably pray the Rosary during the service up till the Eucharistic part of the Mass.

Im writing from Nigeria and over here there is no latin in the new translation unless the priest wishes to say the mass in latin+english. Pls don’t pray the rosary during mass its not the catholic thing to do, follow the mass with all atentiveness even if you don’t understand the language. Many saints who witness the tradentine mass didn’t understand latin but participated in the sacrifice more actively compared to most of us, active participation is not understanding the language but in ‘celebrating’ and ‘witnessing’ the sacred mysteries and apply that sacrifice for ourselves and others. The ‘new changes’ translate the original latin text more ‘exactly’ it show the biblical context in the prayers, here it accepted, my diocese (for some reasons) began using the new translation some weeks before advent. You can’t hate the ndw translation forever.
Peace

 

[Garyjohn2]

I really like the changes. I’m 28. Maybe it’s just the way they were presented to us by our pastor and other documents, but it seems to make more sense and is more meaningful with the new translation.

However, I’m not a fan of the music. Some of the music had to be changed to match the new words (gloria. holy holy holy) and the new tunes seem kind of awkward. Maybe its just because the old ones are really catchy to me from hearing them so many times…but I think in time better melodies will be written, or I’ll get used to these.

The funniest part is when the priest says “the lord be with you” I can distinctly hear about half of the people saying “and with your spirit” and the other half absent-mindedly saying “and also with you” and they both get jumbled together in to a big mess of “andalsowithspirityourspirit.” hahahaha. If nothing else, it will get people to stop and think about what is being said.

 

[Rence]

I find it strange that the same people (at least Americans) who complain about the use of Latin in parts of the Mass have no trouble using Spanish words like “adios” or “hasta la vista” in everyday speech, even when they don’t know any more Spanish than that. I have never heard anyone say “sayonara” and receive complaints about the use of Japanese in his speech.

I don’t use those expressions and words as you describe above.

However, many people have what appears to be an allergic reaction to liturgical Latin

That would be me A serious allergic reaction even.

 

[Dirt]

I Love it!!! Get your hands on a missal. Read the new translation of the Collect, Offertory Prayers, Prefaces. They are wonderful. What many are now awakening to is what we were cheated out of after the “Dynamic Equivalency” method of translation in the original 1969-71 missal from ICEL. We are now returning to Prayers and a Liturgy that we had all along, and just did not know it.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

The majority of parishioners, from what I have experienced and heard about from others, essentially just shrug and move on. They don’t love it or hate, it just is what it is. However they do often remark with something along the lines of, “With all that’s been happening in the Church this is where their focus and energy has been for the past 10 years?”

I will say that the most vocal “opposition” to the new translation has been individuals who still remember attending/serving the Latin Mass prior to the Mass of Paul VI. They fear a “backsliding” into some kind of romanticism for the past that they lived through and were glad to see go.

The most vocal supporters of the new translation have been individuals who always had an attraction to the older more formal prayers in prayer books and devotions.

A year from now the middle ground people won’t care at all about the new translation, those who don’t like will get used to it, and those who love it will continue to do so. And a year after that no one will remember we had a previous translation.

On a side note, while overall I like the translation the one aspect I can’t stand is the “The Mystery of Faith” since in English its kind of clunky given where its placed. So what I’ve done instead is simply chant “Mysterium Fidei” and because of all the new stuff people don’t even bat an eye…

 

[Corki]

hmm, if adding parts in Latin isn’t part of the new Mass, maybe my priest is adding the Latin… I’ll ask him — and ask him to change it back to English if it’s not required.

Maybe he’s using more Latin at different scheduled Masses? I’ll ask him and just change the time I go to the one using less Latin. That will help.

It’s not required that any particular part of the Mass be in Latin. However, it is “required” that everyone know the unchanging parts of the Mass in Latin. Since, as a country we have been pretty lazy in that regard over the last 30 years or so, maybe your priest is just taking this opportunity to catch up.

On the Latin, some of that may be Advent, you know. Last night at Mass, there was quite a lot of Latin and that church doesn’t use Latin a whole lot. I know -0- Latin except singing Adeste Fidelus on Christmas. So I felt a bit left out, but as I looked around, a lot of people also weren’t singing along so…

That’s quite possible too. We used to do Latin for Advent and Lent. Not everything - just the Agnus Dei, the Sanctus, the Mysterium Fidei in Latin and the Kyrie in Greek. Now we just do Latin for Lent but use the Kyrie in Greek for Advent.

BTW, I made a cool discovery yesterday. OCP has never had the Latin Mass prayers in the missalette - or so I thought. They are there - just in the Spanish section!

 

[Nelka]

I still haven’t said “under my roof” as by that time I am too into the Mass to read the new book or listen to what others are saying.

There are times when I’m saying the wrong words but I’m getting there.

As far as our parish is concerned its as if they always said it this way.

There isn’t that much really, unless you have more change in America.

 

[ProVobis]

On a side note, while overall I like the translation the one aspect I can’t stand is the “The Mystery of Faith” since in English its kind of clunky given where its placed. So what I’ve done instead is simply chant “Mysterium Fidei” and because of all the new stuff people don’t even bat an eye…

And I’ll bet they don’t understand it any less. Not to mention that it sounds more serious. Good for you, Father.

 

[JRKH]

…A year from now the middle ground people won’t care at all about the new translation, those who don’t like will get used to it, and those who love it will continue to do so. And a year after that no one will remember we had a previous translation.

Absolutely right…

On a side note, while overall I like the translation the one aspect I can’t stand is the “The Mystery of Faith” since in English its kind of clunky given where its placed. So what I’ve done instead is simply chant “Mysterium Fidei” and because of all the new stuff people don’t even bat an eye…

Neat Trick… I Like it…

Peace
James

 

[Monte_RCMS]

I clicked on this link which a previous poster provided … and enjoyed it:

youtube.com/watch?v=UD4VlsLIZfI

 

[the_phoenix]

During the preparation for the new Mass translation,
I started attending a former parish which seemed like it was
doing a real nice job of teaching the new translation …
and in fact, this helped me with some of the new sung parts.
However, when the time came to implement The Change,
I kept messing up on things like
"And with your spirit … "
… the irony being that I know this phrase quite well
in Latin !!!

So this past Sunday, I attended my normal home parish,
and was happily surprised to discover that
“And with your spirit” is
sung instead of spoken …
making it far easier for me to
participate correctly!



So apparently I’m best off attending either my current home parish
or the Latin Mass downtown, …
… and not attending so much at my former parish,
even if the former parish is closest to where I live.



But as for the new translation itself?
I’m all in favor.

:tiphat: