How many days a month to abstain from sex during NFP?

[tundra1]

Wow. In that case, how awful my Parish and my priest should be for having married my husband and I. If they were doing their job correctly they obviously wouldn’t have married me, right?

Sorry. Some things can only be answered with sarcasm. Especially when people (complete strangers) offend me, my marriage, and my Church.

I agree, sometimes sarcasm helps make a point,

But its not that your parish and priest shouldn’t have married you.
The point is, they should have taught you the fullness of the faith, in regards to children and NFP before the marriage.
In other words if they were doing their job correctly they would have taugh you more about NFP and when it is morally acceptable and when it is not.

BTW, Yes, I and others are “strangers.” But since we all love our Catholic faith, I think we have a lot more in common than you may think.
And the point is not to offend, but to inform, please forgive me if I fail in charity when I speak about the faith, its not my intention.

So many of our generation was simply not taught the faith correctly or in its fullest.

God bless

 

[CountrySinger]

Eh… some are okay with this…

I was about to say that. They say it now, but wait they are married.

 

[JoArtist]

I agree, sometimes sarcasm helps make a point,

But its not that your parish and priest shouldn’t have married you.
The point is, they should have taught you the fullness of the faith, in regards to children and NFP before the marriage.
In other words if they were doing their job correctly they would have taugh you more about NFP and when it is morally acceptable and when it is not.

BTW, Yes, I and others are “strangers.” But since we all love our Catholic faith, I think we have a lot more in common than you may think.
And the point is not to offend, but to inform, please forgive me if I fail in charity when I speak about the faith, its not my intention.

So many of our generation was simply not taught the faith correctly or in its fullest.

God bless

I don’t know about Debora, but my priest at our parish did talk to us about children, NFP, and what constitutes as grave reasons and we told him about our circumstances and he said that it would be best for us to postpone having children, but said nothing about postponing marriage. I think the problem that Deb and I have is that people think that we don’t understand what constitutes as grave reasons and that some make assumptions that we did not discuss this issue in our premarital counseling. I have never heard of any parish not going over this and I doubt that Deb’s priest didn’t go over this matter with her and her husband.

 

[Inthemountains]

To answer the OP’s question. We abstain for about 10 days during my fertile time and 3-4 days during my period.

To the posters who say that the OP is not mature enough to get married, um, when is someone mature enough? Maturity is a continual process. I am much more mature now than I was 10 years ago when I got married. I am much more mature now as the mother of 5 than I was as a mother of 1. My marriage and mothering would probably greatly benefit if I could borrow now from the maturity and wisdom I will have at 70, but alas, that is not how it works. You have to start somewhere. I think the OP wants to grow in maturity and wisdom. That is important.

 

[emmar]

Actually - roughly 2 years IS the “recommended” (general medical community) spacing between pregnancies… there’s nothing “unhealthy” about that and certainly doesn’t qualify a woman to be considered a “baby-popper”…
And don’t forget that breastfeeding plays an important role in this “between pregnancy” spacing… it doesn’t work for everyone, but it’s a win-win situation all around!

Perhaps I should rephrase this. Yes many women try to use ecological breastfeeding, however even following all the standards, quite a few have fertility return in a few months. Also, how soon you get pregnant and it being healthy or not really is individual. Sure your body may be able to handle it, but I know many women who are not healthy emotionally from getting pregnant the first time and need several years to recover. Not to mention trying to recover financially, kids are expensive all the medical bills etc. My point is that the couple should make the decison whether they have grave reasons, I don’t think anyone outside my life could understand our grave reasons. Most priests I have talked to have no idea how hard caring for a baby is and being pregnant. They aren’t the ones without any sleep or stress. I think it should be left up to the couple to determine what are grave reasons, because they are different for everyone.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

Perhaps I should rephrase this. Yes many women try to use ecological breastfeeding, however even following all the standards, quite a few have fertility return in a few months. Also, how soon you get pregnant and it being healthy or not really is individual. Sure your body may be able to handle it, but I know many women who are not healthy emotionally from getting pregnant the first time and need several years to recover. Not to mention trying to recover financially, kids are expensive all the medical bills etc. My point is that the couple should make the decison whether they have grave reasons, I don’t think anyone outside my life could understand our grave reasons. Most priests I have talked to have no idea how hard caring for a baby is and being pregnant. They aren’t the ones without any sleep or stress. I think it should be left up to the couple to determine what are grave reasons, because they are different for everyone.

It is left to the couple to decide whether they have serious/just/grave reasons. They need to inform themselves correctly/they need to form their conscience, and they can seek the help of a spiritual director if they have questions, but when it comes down to it, it is up to the couple to discern whether or not they have serious/just/grave reasons.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

BTW, Angelo, Congratulations!!! I hadn’t posted on here because I didn’t have an answer (how many days a month to abstain) and I wasn’t sure if to comment on anything else, but have been reading some of the posts and finally jumped in with that last one.

Anyways, I can’t remember everything I read, but I do remember you said you are a medical student, awesome! For that reason alone I think it is great that you are trying to learn about NFP. You mentioned how it is not very well known etc where you live… you might be instrumental in your country to help people learn about respecting how God designed our bodies! Anyways… that was one thing. Another thing I was going to suggest, (and I don’t know if you have already done this) is to look into marriage preparation. Maybe whoever helps you in that area can guid you towards more info on God’s design for our bodies and the marital embrace (sex), since you mentioned you are still learning about this aspect. Reading the Church’s documents on sex, marriage, family etc is an excellent way to educate yourself on this topic too . Since you are in a long distance relationship (I was too ) you might need to figure out how you are going to do marriage preparation… dh and I had to meet with a brother in a different parish than that of the priest that was going to marry us, and local to me, not to my husband. They may need to talk with your future wife too about the family issues (to ensure they understand she is not marrying to get out of a bad family situation, etc.) I do wish you both the best, it seems like both of you are having hard times with your families and trying to start a life together following God’s will! BTW, it is normal for abstaining to be tough, the marital act is a sacramental act that serves to unite a couple in the most intimate way. Children are a natural result of this act, and any time that serious/just/grave reasons are present that lead a couple to have to abstain to avoid having children it will be tough… It isn’t odd or bad to want to be with your spouse, God created us that way!

 

[aloe]

NFP can be used in a Catholic marriage to avoid if you have a serious reason. Sometimes the couple in the marriage can be in disagreement as to what is a serious/grave/just reason to use NFP to avoid pregnancy. But if you both agree completely that makes it easier.

Here is a great book maybe you can order:
nfpandmore.org/reviews.shtml
This one can also help
tcoyf.com/content/BookOverview.aspx?

 

[divinefaith]

This thread I think would answer your question better:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=250512

If you view the poll results notice most people had “8-14 days” as their answer.

 

[Angelo85]

Here may be some helpful links so that you can learn about the methods on your own…

Sympto-Thermal Method:
nfpandmore.org/ - has an online guide you can download (it’s great) for a donation.
ccli.org/ - has a home study course - maybe they’ll ship overseas???
tcoyf.com/ - this is a secular book that teaches the method. It’s very medically grounded, but not “Catholic”, so it’ll mention techniques such as using barrier contraception during the fertile phases… we ignore those parts, of course, but it’s a great book!!

Creighton Model:
creightonmodel.com/

Marquette Method:
nfp.marquette.edu/

HTH!!!

Hah, thanks alot! Finaly some useful websites (yours too Rita77 and Deborah by the way). By nearing our marriage I will look deeper into it…

My first question was going to ask if this was an arranged marriage since you have only seen each other 4 times in 6 years, But it doesn’t sound like it with what you had said about your family.

Is there a reason that her family has disowned her? Do you know why they don’t like you?

Do you really want to say that you are getting married to your future wife to save her?

To again answer your first question. You need to take a class. There are classes on line and there are books. You do not want to guess at NFP. You do not want to go just by averages posted here.

For one thing, a woman can get pregnant while having her period.

Yeps, it’s a love marriage, not an arranged one. I have only seen her 2 times (not 4 times, it was 4 weeks last time). I wanted to come in 2009 also, but both my and her parents ruined it for me. I already bought the flight ticket. Just few days before I wanted to go, her father has slammed her very badly on the head… with bleeding at all. He was tensed that I came to meet her, and my mother has asked them to do something to stop me from coming, because I wouldn’t listen to them anyway. I can remember my girl calling me and crying through the phone… I was shivering, I really wanted to go, but I was thinking also…my travel will take 2 days, so what about her safety in those 2 days? I finaly cancelled my trip at the last moment, but I went into a depression for some time…
I really don’t know why her parents treat her like that. They favor everything into her younger sister… Her parents don’t have a problem with me itself. Sometimes when I call her mother, she uses to tell that better to arrange the marriage quickly, so she doesn’t have to think or look after her anymore. What is this?? I love in her everything, so even if the whole world turns against her, I’ll look after her like I’m her father and brother also. So partly I want to get married to her to save her, maybe the most important reason. And to make her happy of course…
For example, when I went to her last time, we did some good shopping on my expenses (mainly dresses). She loves shopping but no one ever allows her to do it. So when I went with her, I could see how happy she was, and told I made one of her dreams come through. So I’m doing it her for her life to be happy
And yeah, I know about chances that she can get pregnant during periods. I just want to ‘try’ whether her menstrual pains will be relieved (either through intercourse, or through emotional attachment). So honestly I don’t want to use it as a reason for abstinence!

OP, do you at least know what your fiancee’s fertility is like? If she has a condition then the average answer might differ. Like other posters said, you and your future Mrs should take NFP classes and talk about the issue personally.

I understand your concern about NFP abstinence. Im single yet afraid at how difficult NFP might be if I do get married. Its not immature at all.

Too bad I don’t know it yet. That’s the problem when we live in such a big distance So will have to see after the wedding

My post continues in the next message…

 

[Angelo85]

Yeah give yourself time to win that battle and don’t be ashamed to go to confession. A vast majority of the population should be on the kneeler in confession right there next to you My advice is to concentrate on associating masturbation with the negative feelings you are going to feel afterwards. Thinking about how unsatisfying that act is compared to the ‘real thing’ is also helpful. It sounds like you are having your greatest temptations occur when other things go wrong for you in your life. Just keep working to face your problems head on and don’t leave time to dwell on them, causing rise for a temptation to escape from them momentarily.

Thanks alot Nate! I’m struggling alot with it, now also, but I know I should never give up on the devil! Thanks alot for you advices, I think it can help me with it

What some people here are saying, and what some of your teachers may have told you, is nothing but their own extremely conservative opinion.

There is no Church doctrine, nothing in the wedding vows, nothing described officially about the sacrament of matrimony, that specifically says a couple must purposely try to have children as soon as they get married… and that they should not get married if they will initially have legitimate reasons not to get pregnant right away.

So to take their opinions and try to rub it in my face like it’s official Church teaching and tell me that I shouldn’t be married and that my parish shouldn’t have married me is, once again, extremely rude and inappropriate. Offensive to myself, my marriage, and my priest.

Exactly. I too was doubting… my parish priests also never told to get kids immediatly after marriage, or else to postpone the marriage. I tend to believe some are a bit too conservative here… sometimes it’s good, I admit. But sometimes it can get people (like who want to come to this religion) into a wrong track rather than a right one).

It will vary, but it will be quite a few days if you want to be certain as is possible to avoid pregnancy.

When I got married in my 20’s, and if I would’ve practiced NFP, my head would’ve exploded.

BTW, don’t listen to the judgmental people implying you shouldn’t get married. You should be receiving praise, not judgment, for attempting to follow the Church’s rules. Good luck with your marriage.

Haha thanks man

That’s definitely a grave reason to avoid. I’ve heard many people on here say that money isn’t a reason to avoid. However we avoided for same reason, ended up pregnant anyway and it has ruined us financially. I think in many Catholic circles women are seen as “baby-poppers.” Pop one out every 2 years. This is not only unhealthy for the mother, but I grew up watching all my friends families, and the bad effects that came from this. So, I think grave reason should be left to the parents not a priest or the Church. The priest or the Church is not the one suffering and struggling when NFP fails.

Yeah that’s what I’m also scared of. I don’t have enough money nor an income (my study didn’t allow me to do a part-time job, here in the Netherlands you don’t even get paid for internships, while you have to work 50+ hours a week). I need to be financial stable to get a kid…

To answer the OP’s question. We abstain for about 10 days during my fertile time and 3-4 days during my period.

To the posters who say that the OP is not mature enough to get married, um, when is someone mature enough? Maturity is a continual process. I am much more mature now than I was 10 years ago when I got married. I am much more mature now as the mother of 5 than I was as a mother of 1. My marriage and mothering would probably greatly benefit if I could borrow now from the maturity and wisdom I will have at 70, but alas, that is not how it works. You have to start somewhere. I think the OP wants to grow in maturity and wisdom. That is important.

Thanks for your understanding I have seen in my life also, in some cases I have become alot more matured, and in others I still have to learn it

 

[Angelo85]

BTW, Angelo, Congratulations!!! I hadn’t posted on here because I didn’t have an answer (how many days a month to abstain) and I wasn’t sure if to comment on anything else, but have been reading some of the posts and finally jumped in with that last one.
Anyways, I can’t remember everything I read, but I do remember you said you are a medical student, awesome! For that reason alone I think it is great that you are trying to learn about NFP. You mentioned how it is not very well known etc where you live… you might be instrumental in your country to help people learn about respecting how God designed our bodies! Anyways… that was one thing. Another thing I was going to suggest, (and I don’t know if you have already done this) is to look into marriage preparation. Maybe whoever helps you in that area can guid you towards more info on God’s design for our bodies and the marital embrace (sex), since you mentioned you are still learning about this aspect. Reading the Church’s documents on sex, marriage, family etc is an excellent way to educate yourself on this topic too . Since you are in a long distance relationship (I was too ) you might need to figure out how you are going to do marriage preparation… dh and I had to meet with a brother in a different parish than that of the priest that was going to marry us, and local to me, not to my husband. They may need to talk with your future wife too about the family issues (to ensure they understand she is not marrying to get out of a bad family situation, etc.) I do wish you both the best, it seems like both of you are having hard times with your families and trying to start a life together following God’s will! BTW, it is normal for abstaining to be tough, the marital act is a sacramental act that serves to unite a couple in the most intimate way. Children are a natural result of this act, and any time that serious/just/grave reasons are present that lead a couple to have to abstain to avoid having children it will be tough… It isn’t odd or bad to want to be with your spouse, God created us that way!

Thanks alot for your answer You’re right, I try too learn about the Catholic way of marriage, sex, family life etc. I didn’t get a proper catechism in my younger days (my parish church had some problems). And now I’m trying to search for it actively, for example through this forum And yeah, somehow I should make my girlfriend also clear about the christian way of marriage etc. Have to think of a good option how to do it, because in her place there is not a suitable person who can speak with her regarding these matters…

 

[Rita77]

OP Have you only meet her twice? Sounds like a lot of physical and verbal abuse from her family. are you sure you know the whole story? Are you sure you know what you are getting into? You don’t just gain a wife you gain the in-laws too. I think you would greatly benefit from Catholic engagement counseling with your priest and go together. The priest marrying you needs to get to know both of you and give you the proper prep for marriage. My brother had a long distant relationship with his fiancé he only meet her a few times. they had separate engagement counseling from separate priests so the priest marring them didn’t know both very well. She had an abusive past and has a severe mental illness (she lied to my brother about it) (the abuse messed her up) she switched like a light switch on the flight to the honeymoon and wasn’t cut out for marriage. They immediately got an annulment. They are now just friends and that’s the way it should be. she needed a therapist and supportive friends not a husband. I’m not saying this is going to happen to you, but It’s worth getting to know who your marrying and checking their credit score and mental history. Prepare yourself marriage isn’t easy. Having abusive pasts can have devastating consequences on the victim’s mental health.

 

[Nate13]

I don’t know about Debora, but my priest at our parish did talk to us about children, NFP, and what constitutes as grave reasons and we told him about our circumstances and he said that it would be best for us to postpone having children, but said nothing about postponing marriage. I think the problem that Deb and I have is that people think that we don’t understand what constitutes as grave reasons and that some make assumptions that we did not discuss this issue in our premarital counseling. I have never heard of any parish not going over this and I doubt that Deb’s priest didn’t go over this matter with her and her husband.

I agree with you here. People need to keep quiet unless someone has explained the entirety of their situation before commenting on how someone used NFP. There is a lot of debate about what are considered serious reasons to be using NFP. A priest can help give direction on how a couple should go about discerning whether they have good reason to be using NFP, but it is the couples responsibility to do the discerning once they are properly informed.

There is no requirement that says you have to start having babies right after you get married in the Church. I think what some of the other posters may have wanted to get across is that once you start having sex you should be prepared to accept what goes with that even if your using NFP. Sex means the possibility of a baby however small that possibility is. Even if the possibility of that occurring is only a 0.1% chance you should be ready to accept that.

 

[Jordan719]

Marriage is intended to bring about children. If you are not ready for children, you are not ready to be married.

 

[Jordan719]

I would advise the OP to read the CCC and follow the teachings within. Consult an orthodox priest or your bishop with questions. Remember, not all priests follow the teachings of the Church and may lead you astray. The following are from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Article 7

THE SACRAMENT OF MATRIMONY

1601 “The matrimonial covenant, by which a man and a woman establish between themselves a partnership of the whole of life, is by its nature ordered toward the good of the spouses and the procreation and education of offspring; this covenant between baptized persons has been raised by Christ the Lord to the dignity of a sacrament.”

1652 “By its very nature the institution of marriage and married love is ordered to the procreation and education of the offspring and it is in them that it finds its crowning glory.”
Children are the supreme gift of marriage and contribute greatly to the good of the parents themselves. God himself said: “It is not good that man should be alone,” and “from the beginning (he) made them male and female”; wishing to associate them in a special way in his own creative work, God blessed man and woman with the words: “Be fruitful and multiply.” Hence, true married love and the whole structure of family life which results from it, without diminishment of the other ends of marriage, are directed to disposing the spouses to cooperate valiantly with the love of the Creator and Savior, who through them will increase and enrich his family from day to day.

1654 Spouses to whom God has not granted children can nevertheless have a conjugal life full of meaning, in both human and Christian terms. Their marriage can radiate a fruitfulness of charity, of hospitality, and of sacrifice.

 

[Jordan719]

**From Lactantius: **
“[Some] complain of the scantiness of their means, and allege that they have not enough for bringing up more children, as though, in truth, their means were in [their] power . . . or God did not daily make the rich poor and the poor rich. Wherefore, if any one on any account of poverty shall be unable to bring up children, it is better to abstain from relations with his wife” (Divine Institutes6:20 [A.D. 307]).

“God gave us eyes not to see and desire pleasure, but to see acts to be performed for the needs of life; so too, the genital ’generating’] part of the body, as the name itself teaches, has been received by us for no other purpose than the generation of offspring” (ibid., 6:23:18).

From Augustine:
“This proves that you [Manicheans] approve of having a wife, not for the procreation of children, but for the gratification of passion. In marriage, as the marriage law declares, the man and woman come together for the procreation of children. Therefore, whoever makes the procreation of children a greater sin than copulation, forbids marriage and makes the woman not a wife but a mistress, who for some gifts presented to her is joined to the man to gratify his passion” (The Morals of the Manichees 18:65 [A.D. 388]).

“You [Manicheans] make your auditors adulterers of their wives when they take care lest the women with whom they copulate conceive. They take wives according to the laws of matrimony by tablets announcing that the marriage is contracted to procreate children; and then, fearing because of your law [against childbearing] . . . they copulate in a shameful union only to satisfy lust for their wives. They are unwilling to have children, on whose account alone marriages are made. How is it, then, that you are not those prohibiting marriage, as the apostle predicted of you so long ago [1 Tim. 4:1–4], when you try to take from marriage what marriage is? When this is taken away, husbands are shameful lovers, wives are harlots, bridal chambers are brothels, fathers-in-law are pimps” (Against Faustus 15:7 [A.D. 400]).

“For thus the eternal law, that is, the will of God creator of all creatures, taking counsel for the conservation of natural order, not to serve lust, but to see to the preservation of the race, permits the delight of mortal flesh to be released from the control of reason in copulation only to propagate progeny” (ibid., 22:30).

“For necessary sexual intercourse for begetting [children] is alone worthy of marriage. But that which goes beyond this necessity no longer follows reason but lust. And yet it pertains to the character of marriage . . . to yield it to the partner lest by fornication the other sin damnably [through adultery]. . . . [T]hey [must] not turn away from them the mercy of God . . . by changing the natural use into that which is against nature, which is more damnable when it is done in the case of husband or wife. For, whereas that natural use, when it pass beyond the compact of marriage, that is, beyond the necessity of begetting [children], is pardonable in the case of a wife, damnable in the case of a harlot; that which is against nature is execrable when done in the case of a harlot, but more execrable in the case of a wife. Of so great power is the ordinance of the Creator, and the order of creation, that . . . when the man shall wish to use a body part of the wife not allowed for this purpose [orally or anally consummated sex], the wife is more shameful, if she suffer it to take place in her own case, than if in the case of another woman” (The Good of Marriage 11–12 [A.D. 401]).

 

[Jordan719]

The Church Fathers and Church teaching all point toward marriage as being primarily for the bearing of offspring. If you live in the United States and your eating three meals a day and driving a car, you can support a child. If you think otherwise you are lying to yourself.

We have two children with a third on the way. Am I rich? Nope. Am I financially stable? Probably not. I am worth more dead than alive. I pay the bills every month though. God didn’t put me here to enjoy vacations, drive new cars and live a life of luxury.
On a side note, when we were first married our parish priest told us it was okay to abstain from having children, he even told us ABC was okay. We listened to him. Then we discovered the truth of the faith and life was never the same.

To be a Catholic is very, very, very, very difficult as it should be. Our Lord didn’t promise us a rose garden. He promised us a wooden cross with nails and a lot of pain. Get married and have children. If you were meant to be a physician, God will provide. If not, maybe you weren’t supposed to be a doc. I am sure you’ve prayed for your vocation and what God wants of you, not what you want of God.

 

[Angelo85]

OP Have you only meet her twice? Sounds like a lot of physical and verbal abuse from her family. are you sure you know the whole story? Are you sure you know what you are getting into? You don’t just gain a wife you gain the in-laws too. I think you would greatly benefit from Catholic engagement counseling with your priest and go together. The priest marrying you needs to get to know both of you and give you the proper prep for marriage. My brother had a long distant relationship with his fiancé he only meet her a few times. they had separate engagement counseling from separate priests so the priest marring them didn’t know both very well. She had an abusive past and has a severe mental illness (she lied to my brother about it) (the abuse messed her up) she switched like a light switch on the flight to the honeymoon and wasn’t cut out for marriage. They immediately got an annulment. They are now just friends and that’s the way it should be. she needed a therapist and supportive friends not a husband. I’m not saying this is going to happen to you, but It’s worth getting to know who your marrying and checking their credit score and mental history. Prepare yourself marriage isn’t easy. Having abusive pasts can have devastating consequences on the victim’s mental health.

Oh it’s not that bad… apart from what I told before, she didn’t get any physical abuse. Verbally it’s also to a minimum. She is a bit straightforward, that’s all. People don’t like it and treat her badly, which is not the way. I’m absolutely sure that I want her as my wife Yeah we should do some premarital counseling. Too bad what happened with your brother (and with the girl also). But my girl is not mentally affected or anything, she just needs love which she didn’t get from others (by the way, her father was working outcountry for 23 years, so only 2 years in between they have been together, so there was not even a proper father-child relationship). I’m sure I can provide her that love. I understand lots of people have problems with abusive past. But I’m sure in our case it won’t be like that. Her father also agreed to this marriage (I called him last week). So it’s gonna be that bad for us

The Church Fathers and Church teaching all point toward marriage as being primarily for the bearing of offspring. If you live in the United States and your eating three meals a day and driving a car, you can support a child. If you think otherwise you are lying to yourself.

We have two children with a third on the way. Am I rich? Nope. Am I financially stable? Probably not. I am worth more dead than alive. I pay the bills every month though. God didn’t put me here to enjoy vacations, drive new cars and live a life of luxury.
On a side note, when we were first married our parish priest told us it was okay to abstain from having children, he even told us ABC was okay. We listened to him. Then we discovered the truth of the faith and life was never the same.

To be a Catholic is very, very, very, very difficult as it should be. Our Lord didn’t promise us a rose garden. He promised us a wooden cross with nails and a lot of pain. Get married and have children. If you were meant to be a physician, God will provide. If not, maybe you weren’t supposed to be a doc. I am sure you’ve prayed for your vocation and what God wants of you, not what you want of God.

But the thing is, I don’t live in the United States, and I’m not driving a car haha
I understand what you’re telling. The thing is, most of my money goes to my studies (which I’m almost finished with, can’t give up now!). I want to give proper love to my children, and enough care. Too bad in this century money plays a big role, even though I hate it. I can’t just deny it. I just need a little preparation. If not getting kids for a short time is not allowed, then NFP wouldn’t exist, would it? I’m not telling I don’t want children (like the passages you gave from the church fathers etc.). I just want a short period without it. NFP is not 100% guaranteed. If we get children somehow, then we will raise it accordingly. I can never allow ourselves to do any abortion or use abortive pills. So I will raise them accordingly I just need some income which I don’t have now. It’s not wrong to marry when you don’t have an income.

 

[white_sheep]

14 or so. After having a baby about 6 months. Bear it gracefully.