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TriuneUnity
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John 1:14. The word for “dwelt” is the Greek word for tabernacle. The tent being a metaphor for His flesh. God in human flesh…Christ fulfills the OT symbolism of the tabernacle as being the dwelling place of God.
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PRmerger
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PRmerger
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Ok. I’m with you. Jesus is the tabernacle–the dwelling place of God. That would make Mary a tabernacle then, too, then?
IMHO–ark, tabernacle–synonymous!
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TriuneUnity
Guest
I would say Mary is more a fulfillment of the ark in the sense that the ark was where the Old Covenant was kept (not just the Ten Commandments mind you, but the whole deal). In that sense, since Christ is the New Covenant, she is in that way the ark of the New Covenant.
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PRmerger
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And if a tabernacle is the “dwelling place of God” and God dwelled for 9 months in a woman…
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larkin31
Guest
Nah, I’m just procrastinatin’. I gotta go now. Have a good night!Alright then! So you are a believe in Sacred Tradition.
One less battle!
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larkin31
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TriuneUnity
Guest
Some of the prayers of St. Gregory Thaumaturgus bring this out well:
"In her body she made an earthly home for the Eternal Word, that through the body and blood He assumed from her He might make an eternal home for her and all her race. “‘Arise, O Lord, into Your rest, You, and the ark of Your sanctuary.’ For the holy Virgin is truly an ark, made with gold within and without, who has received the whole treasury of the Holy of Holies.”
“Only to Mary the pure virgin did the archangel Gabriel manifest himself in brilliant light, bringing her the glad address, “Hail, you who are highly favored!” And thus she received the Word, and soon, in time, through the body’s natural process, she gave birth to the dear Pearl. Come, then, you, too, dearly beloved, and let us chant the melody that has been taught us by the inspired harp of David, and say, “Arise, O Lord, into Your rest, You, and the ark of Your sanctuary.” For the holy Virgin is truly an ark, made with gold both within and without, who has received the whole treasury of the Holy of Holies. “Arise, O Lord, into Your rest.” Arise, O Lord, out of the bosom of the Father, in order that You may raise up the fallen race of the first man.”
or, as one Lutheran pastor of mine put it in his Christmas sermon: No one gets Christmas who doesn’t get the tabernacle. That first reading was not at all incongruous with the Mystery we celebrate today. It was the very unfolding of its deepest meaning. For just as God long ago chose in His mercy to dwell in a tent among His people that He might bring them into communion with Himself and give them a share in His divine life, so when the fullness of time came, God pitched His tent in an extraordinary manner among men. The tent this last and final time was not made of animal skin, but of a holy Virgin. God dwelt in Her flesh as in the Tabernacle, making her to be the living Ark, and thus disclosed to us the most astonishing thing about God’s plan for the human race.
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PRmerger
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Ok. I’m confused then. It sounds like you’re saying Mary* is* a tabernacle.
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TriuneUnity
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He kind of mixed it around a little bit throughout the sermon, from what I remember. I don’t have the whole text of it. I think, given Revelation, and also Mary herself, traveling pretty much throughout the entire western half of the Middle East (like the ark), that its best to refer to her as a picture of the ark, especially given that Scripture calls Christ the tabernacle.
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tqualey
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Hi, TriuneUnity,
I had never heard it expressed quite this way before - and, I think this is excellent!
God bless
Tom
I had never heard it expressed quite this way before - and, I think this is excellent!
God bless
Tom
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Deacon_JAR
Guest
May the Peace of the Lord be with you. The comments your provided contain a lot of wisdom and accurate historical transition. You may provide as much accurate info as you may like but their hearts and mind MUST BE OPENED. For those who have seen the movie about St. Bernadette (Lourdes, France) we must remember the quote that appears at the end of the film: FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE, EXPLANATIONS ARE NOT NECESSARY; FOR THOSE WHO DON’T, EXPLANATIONS ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH."
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tqualey
Guest
Hi, KathleenGee,
Shawn has been called out for insincerity before - and, to our sadness, he continues to persist in this type of taunting with what he knows are lies that he is spreading on this list. But, such scandal will not go un-noticed when he arrives at the White Throne.
I really think we have done all we can do at this time. The ball is in his court to come up with a genuine response. There is the challenge and there is where he fails to rise. For this there is only one remedy - and that is to pray that the Holy Spirit will open his heart and mind to the Word of God.
God bless
Tom
Shawn has been called out for insincerity before - and, to our sadness, he continues to persist in this type of taunting with what he knows are lies that he is spreading on this list. But, such scandal will not go un-noticed when he arrives at the White Throne.
I really think we have done all we can do at this time. The ball is in his court to come up with a genuine response. There is the challenge and there is where he fails to rise. For this there is only one remedy - and that is to pray that the Holy Spirit will open his heart and mind to the Word of God.
God bless
Tom
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KathleenGee
Guest
Thanks to both of you…
I am already coming to the point that I do not care to continue with particular fundamentalists after they are given much historical evidence.
I am also coming to the point of not answering any more the Muslim posters, because in fact, I do suffer spiritually when they argue and bring forth myths and denial of the truth. It is like a sacrilege, and I wonder the same how far we go in supporting our faith of the Eucharist to the point that then we are allowing His presence to be abused and maligned…
Same with indulgences although they are very hard to understand…but all the doctrinal answers will never answer as well as personal experience.
I also wonder for myself when I begin to enter into that area that the Epistles warned us about … vain arguments…the vanity of it and the issue of time better spent living the gospel.
I pray ongoing for those who come to CAF.
I am already coming to the point that I do not care to continue with particular fundamentalists after they are given much historical evidence.
I am also coming to the point of not answering any more the Muslim posters, because in fact, I do suffer spiritually when they argue and bring forth myths and denial of the truth. It is like a sacrilege, and I wonder the same how far we go in supporting our faith of the Eucharist to the point that then we are allowing His presence to be abused and maligned…
Same with indulgences although they are very hard to understand…but all the doctrinal answers will never answer as well as personal experience.
I also wonder for myself when I begin to enter into that area that the Epistles warned us about … vain arguments…the vanity of it and the issue of time better spent living the gospel.
I pray ongoing for those who come to CAF.
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tqualey
Guest
Hi, KathleenGee,
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KathleenGee
Guest
God bless you, Tom and Deacon.
The Good Shepherd teaches us to have hope in every person.
Yes, it is very disturbing about the Muslims. And this idea of conquest through destruction, this staking out.
Do you know the Muslims now have their mosque at the base of the former World Trade Center? It is now staked. The vast majority of funds came from a Muslim country, over $600,000, the rest from globalist, pro abortion funders, and the United Nation.
Which brings me back to the Protestants, united we stand, divided we fall. A Jewish commentator noted that the Christians in America are the greatest block. But where are they??? I chuckled to myself…we are all fractured into pieces by none other than the Bible itself…so I can also wryly say that the Bible has been used as a weapon against us to destroy our own moral fiber!!
There is also great work in America and the West to restore the dignity of woman. There is a post put out today about the moral awareness of infants…many mothers can see it working in little ones.
I am starting to prepare my own mission here in our country to restore the dignity of woman and the innocence of the little children, as well as make Mary known. I read a priest say that the foundation of prayer is based on the little children and the aged.
I might add that there is no argument to believing this or that verse in John regarding the Eucharist. Mikedes gave such a profound instruction. The answer to understanding the Bible verses are answered in the Church as he shared…the seed of Jesus that was planted and grows in us.
The Good Shepherd teaches us to have hope in every person.
Yes, it is very disturbing about the Muslims. And this idea of conquest through destruction, this staking out.
Do you know the Muslims now have their mosque at the base of the former World Trade Center? It is now staked. The vast majority of funds came from a Muslim country, over $600,000, the rest from globalist, pro abortion funders, and the United Nation.
Which brings me back to the Protestants, united we stand, divided we fall. A Jewish commentator noted that the Christians in America are the greatest block. But where are they??? I chuckled to myself…we are all fractured into pieces by none other than the Bible itself…so I can also wryly say that the Bible has been used as a weapon against us to destroy our own moral fiber!!
There is also great work in America and the West to restore the dignity of woman. There is a post put out today about the moral awareness of infants…many mothers can see it working in little ones.
I am starting to prepare my own mission here in our country to restore the dignity of woman and the innocence of the little children, as well as make Mary known. I read a priest say that the foundation of prayer is based on the little children and the aged.
I might add that there is no argument to believing this or that verse in John regarding the Eucharist. Mikedes gave such a profound instruction. The answer to understanding the Bible verses are answered in the Church as he shared…the seed of Jesus that was planted and grows in us.
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Nicea325
Guest
I do not think so! Again, your belief is NOVEL and early church history rebukes you until the end of time. Hmmmmm. Let us see here: Jesus said I am the Vine, I am the Gate/Door. Did anyone really get confused over those terms? Nope! Why didn’t Jesus correct his teaching those who left? If he meant it to be symbolic,why not explain as he did other teachngs or sayings? Does he not do it throughout the NT?
Sorry,but Jesus does NOT use a single word in Aramaic which meant symbolic or represents. He meant it literally.
Apparently you also fail to tie in the Passover meal. What was eaten at the Passover meal? Hhmmmm?
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larkin31
Guest
“This is my body broken for you”
Did anyone at that table think that he had just broken his own body? Or just shed his own blood?
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tqualey
Guest
Hi, Larkin31
Not to intrude … but, you know… Nicea is really quite right. But, let me answer your question: the Apostles probably did not KNOW that Christ was actually holding His Body, Blood, Human Soul and Divinity in His Hands - and broke It and gave It to the Apostles to eat. They got this insight into what Christ’s Plan for our Salvation is - as an on-going revelation beginning with the Resurrection and going on through Pentecost and beyond with the Guidance of the Holy Spirit Christ promised to His Church - and, that would be the Catholic Church.
Now, here is a question for you. Since God can do all things, just what is it that makes you think He can not conceal Himself under the appearances of Bread and Wine? This is especially important when you consider that Christ actually said we were to eat His Flesh - and just to prove he was understood … people said He could not do such a thing and walked away. No one walks away from a metaphor!
Imagine Christ actually tell It like it is! The only ones, at least as I see it, that have a problem with believing Christ are the 16th Century protestants and their followers today.
God bless
Tom
Not to intrude … but, you know… Nicea is really quite right. But, let me answer your question: the Apostles probably did not KNOW that Christ was actually holding His Body, Blood, Human Soul and Divinity in His Hands - and broke It and gave It to the Apostles to eat. They got this insight into what Christ’s Plan for our Salvation is - as an on-going revelation beginning with the Resurrection and going on through Pentecost and beyond with the Guidance of the Holy Spirit Christ promised to His Church - and, that would be the Catholic Church.
Now, here is a question for you. Since God can do all things, just what is it that makes you think He can not conceal Himself under the appearances of Bread and Wine? This is especially important when you consider that Christ actually said we were to eat His Flesh - and just to prove he was understood … people said He could not do such a thing and walked away. No one walks away from a metaphor!
Imagine Christ actually tell It like it is! The only ones, at least as I see it, that have a problem with believing Christ are the 16th Century protestants and their followers today.
God bless
Tom
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rev_kevin
Guest
This is my body…Do this in rememberance of me.
This is my blood…Do this in remembrance of me.
When Jesus held up the bread, which was a symbol of his body, he did not say I and the bread are the same, I am the bread and the bread is me and the same with the wine.
I could hold up a pencil and say this is my finger, does that make the pencil my finger, of course not it is a sympol of my finger. I pour out water from a cup and say this is a water fall, does that make the water poured out from the cup a waterf all, of course not, it is a symbol of a water fall. I have not seen anywhere in the Bible that say it is his actual body and actual blood.
This is my blood…Do this in remembrance of me.
When Jesus held up the bread, which was a symbol of his body, he did not say I and the bread are the same, I am the bread and the bread is me and the same with the wine.
I could hold up a pencil and say this is my finger, does that make the pencil my finger, of course not it is a sympol of my finger. I pour out water from a cup and say this is a water fall, does that make the water poured out from the cup a waterf all, of course not, it is a symbol of a water fall. I have not seen anywhere in the Bible that say it is his actual body and actual blood.
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