How many deny Jesus Christ in the Eucharist?

[Esdra]

Hi,

I KNOW how a Catholic Mass proceeds. ('Though I don’t know the Terminology you used here. For English is not my mother tongue)I have been very often in a Catholic Mass!
"benedictus2:

And then comes that most profound moment where we go and RECEIVE Him. He is no longer just there in front of us but inside us, His blood flowing in us. That is the closest anyone can get to God this side of eternity.

This knowledge that the lifeblood of Jesus Christ is coursing through our veins… You have no idea how incredible that is. It is beyond words…

Please think about this verses: 1 Cor 3:16, 6:19, 2 Cor 6:16
We are a Temple for our Lord. The Holy Ghost lives in US. And since the Holy Ghost, Jesus and our God, YHW, are the same (cf. John 10:30, 17:11) Jesus lives in us.
This is what we understand under Trinity, don’t we? This is what unites us (most Protestant Churches and the RCC and the Orthodox Churches!), the Trinity - - So we don’t need to recieve Him, for he IS already in us - as he has promised us (cf. John 14:19+20)

God bless you,
Esdra

Jesus doesn’t come into our bread and wine either. The bread and wine becomes transformed into His Body and Blood. It is true that He is there where two or more are gathered in His name. But the bread and wine does become transformed into the Body and Blood of Christ whether you believe it or not.

…]

 

[benedictus2]

Please think about this verses: 1 Cor 3:16, 6:19, 2 Cor 6:16
We are a Temple for our Lord. The Holy Ghost lives in US. And since the Holy Ghost, Jesus and our God, YHW, are the same (cf. John 10:30, 17:11) Jesus lives in us.
This is what we understand under Trinity, don’t we? This is what unites us (most Protestant Churches and the RCC and the Orthodox Churches!), the Trinity - - So we don’t need to recieve Him, for he IS already in us - as he has promised us (cf. John 14:19+20)

Well Jesus Himself said you need to. John 6 - My flesh is food indeed, my blood is drink indeed. Unless you eat of the flesh of the Son of Man you will not have life within you. And I will raise you up on the last day.

 

[PRmerger]

Christ is just as much the door as He is the bread of life.

Except no one left Jesus because he said he was a door. Everyone got the symbolism.

Scripture says something quite different about their reaction to his saying he was the bread of life.

 

[benedictus2]

**
Yeah, I believe you. This must be frustrating. In my eyes these people are not to be considered as Christians. I mean I love my Saviour Christ Jesus and I am doing all possible to obey His commandments - starting from the Ten Commandments to His commandments in the NT - for I love Him.**

Esdra

That is wonderful! And May He always give you the grace to more in this love.

 

[Esdra]

Well Jesus Himself said you need to. John 6 - My flesh is food indeed, my blood is drink indeed. Unless you eat of the flesh of the Son of Man you will not have life within you. And I will raise you up on the last day.

Hi

and why are you so sure that John 6 is to be interpreted literal?
I mean, it is normally you Catholics that say that you mustn’t interpret the Holy Scripture literal! At least this is what you accuse Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Adventists to do.
In my opinion the blood and flesh of Jesus is only to be interpreted not literally but that Jesus meant that He is in us when we accept Him as our Savior.
The Last Supper is a ritual to do in His remembrance for what He has done for us on the Cross. I hope I am clear, for I don’t know myself really what I am writing here!
And it is (and was among the Ancient Christians) a “feast” for celebrating in Community. For: "And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. " (Gen 2:18) And this is the reason why we search for Community with other Christians. Christianity is about relationship between the Brothers and Sisters in Christ as well as the relationship to our Lord Jesus Christ and our Father in Heaven, YHW.

God bless you,
Esdra

 

[KathleenGee]

Esdra,

We all affirm your great love in Jesus Christ. If there were people in the world that loved Him as you do, our world would be so much better.

As a Catholic, I would say we are not so openly demonstrative at Mass. The posture at Mass is more attention to what is happening in the spirit of Adoration. People today live hectic lives. It is good to get to Mass 10 minutes early to slow down and stop and just get one’s focus.

But we as Catholics also know the extent of Christ’s love in that He has not left us. The Lord said He would always remain with us in love. And that is His physical presence. We have the actual Body and Blood present for us 24 hours a day in the Tabernacle. His presence in the Tabernacle is one that we can see vs. the old tabernacle in the Temple with the cloth where God could not be seen. He is present to us in the Eucharist…and in that form, we are still called upon to use our faith.

As Catholics we all have the great propensity to not give the Lord our due focus. It is something we have to work at. We have to spend time loving God…and to love God is to know Him…we need to spend time to know better what the Mass means. If we do, we come to realize that the Mass and liturgy are the answers, the response of ‘Yes!’ to Christ coming through Mary’s ‘yes’, to coming to mankind to save and redeem, and for us Catholics and Orthodox, to stay not just spiritually, but physically. The Lord lives among us and we center our life around Him.

That is a great love relationship. We do not know what families went through to go to Mass that morning. We can’t judge people by their outward appearances. My girlfriend had 4 kids. For Easter Sunday, she got the two older boys ready in new suits, and then went to get the others. After the younger ones were ready for Easter Mass, the two older boys came in the house with their new Easter suits covered in mud. Her husband was an alcoholic and she always had to tell him what to do, and her children were always doing things when he took care of him when she went out. I saw it myself, coming back home and seeing the house in a mess after an outing.

But we acknowledge the Lord’s love for us, and reflect on that. You should go to a Catholic church that has Adoration and go into the chapel and just be alone with Him.
And what I also like about being Catholic is the liturgical year, the different feast days throughout the year, including the saints, and hearing how they lived their lives as Christians at daily Mass…you can see why they became saints…and it is very edifying and challenging to hear about their lives because it raises the bar, their testimonies give you new examples of how to live your life more deeply for Christ.

 

[Esdra]

Esdra,

We all affirm your great love in Jesus Christ. If there were people in the world that loved Him as you do, our world would be so much better.

Thank you! As I got to know Jesus He really changed my whole life. I am totally in love with Him. It is so wonderful to have such a good Father in heaven and such a good friend like Christ Jesus!

cf. John 15,15

Well, the rest you wrote above is “Catholic stuff”. Most of the things I already know, others I don’t. But that is not that important. For me it is not important to be in the Catholic Church, but to be a Christian. And I am - at least I try to, for I am also only a sinful Human who is dependent upon the merciful forgiveness of our Most High Lord and Savior.

I mean I do accept that this is your believe. It is great that you also believe in our Savior Christ Jesus. But, and I think this sentence is important for all of you here in CAF, there are also other ways to Jesus than through the Catholic Church.

Esdra

 

[Cinette]

Hi

and why are you so sure that John 6 is to be interpreted literal?
I mean, it is normally you Catholics that say that you mustn’t interpret the Holy Scripture literal! At least this is what you accuse Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Adventists to do.
In my opinion the blood and flesh of Jesus is only to be interpreted not literally but that Jesus meant that He is in us when we accept Him as our Savior.
The Last Supper is a ritual to do in His remembrance for what He has done for us on the Cross. I hope I am clear, for I don’t know myself really what I am writing here!
And it is (and was among the Ancient Christians) a “feast” for celebrating in Community. For: "And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. " (Gen 2:18) And this is the reason why we search for Community with other Christians. Christianity is about relationship between the Brothers and Sisters in Christ as well as the relationship to our Lord Jesus Christ and our Father in Heaven, YHW.

God bless you,
Esdra

*Esdra, it has been explained several times on this thread by we believe the Eucharist is not symbolic. Over and over it has been explained why we know that Jesus meant exactly what he said - how he repeated himself over and over. How if it were a mere symbol the disciples would not have turned away. Yet it seems that you do not read the postings which explain this over and over and over again.

I suggest you pray and they read John 6 prayerfully slowly… Ask the Holy Spirit to guide you.

God love you
Cinette*

 

[Esdra]

*Esdra, it has been explained several times on this thread by we believe the Eucharist is not symbolic. Over and over it has been explained why we know that Jesus meant exactly what he said - how he repeated himself over and over. How if it were a mere symbol the disciples would not have turned away. Yet it seems that you do not read the postings which explain this over and over and over again.

I suggest you pray and they read John 6 prayerfully slowly… Ask the Holy Spirit to guide you.

God love you
Cinette*

Hi

well, I know your view about John 6. (I have read the posts, although it was quite hard for me. Due to, as I have often stated, English isn’t my mother-tongue. My problem is that I somehow know that it can’t be true. But I also don’t know the “Christian” interpretation of John 6…

By the way: The post above you quoted, cinette, is MY interpretation of John 6. At least I think so. See, I have really a lot to learn about the Bible. For in some questions I am not sure…
So, I accept your view. But please, do also accept mine, although I am not a 100% sure.

To all other “Christians”: Please help me with John 6!

Esdra

 

[shawn38]

Except no one left Jesus because he said he was a door. Everyone got the symbolism.

Scripture says something quite different about their reaction to his saying he was the bread of life.

Some symbolism is easier to understand than others. Just because some symbolism may be easier or harder than others to comprehend, does not change the fact that it still is symbolism.

 

[CONFUSED1111]

Yes Satan does not like any symbol that has to do with Christ but more so with Christ’s real presence.

Below is a link on the exorcism of Nicola Aubrey. This will drive home the point that Confused1111 is making.

olrl.org/stories/exorcism.shtml

@shawn38

Read the link and than talk about symbolysm.

 

[shawn38]

How if it were a mere symbol the disciples would not have turned away.

Cinette,

What kind of leader were the Jews expecting? They were looking for a polical leader like David, not a spiritual saviour.

Being that the desciples were Jews, we understand the difficulties with them accepting the wine as being the blood of Christ. Why? The Law.

The last supper a Passover meal? Yes

As part of the Passover, the Jews drink 4 cups of red wine calling to mind the four “I wills” (Ex 6:6-7). The cups are symbolic of what God had promised the Isrealites.

1. “I will take you out…” 2. “I will save you…” 3. “I will redeem you…” 4. “I will take you as a nation…”

The afikomen represents Christ. The placing of it in white linen and hiding it during the meal represented the burial of Christ. Bringing it back out after supper represented the resurrection of Christ.

I think we agree that the Passover is a forshadowing of Christ. When Christ died on the cross, saying with His last words “It is finished,” the redemption work was finished. Christ never drank the 4th cup. That is to come when God takes us to be with Him.

Christ, being the host and sacrifice of the Passover, was still teaching his desciples using the same imagery that the Jews related to during their observence of past Passovers. But because Christ was the pesach sacrifice for this Passover, He didn’t reference the afikomen as any future saviour, but as Himself since He was the fulfillment.

The Passover has always been symbolic of what God had done for the Isrealites and what He was going to do for them. It was performed in remembrance.

 

[rinnie]

Hi,

I KNOW how a Catholic Mass proceeds. ('Though I don’t know the Terminology you used here. For English is not my mother tongue)I have been very often in a Catholic Mass!

Please think about this verses: 1 Cor 3:16, 6:19, 2 Cor 6:16
We are a Temple for our Lord. The Holy Ghost lives in US. And since the Holy Ghost, Jesus and our God, YHW, are the same (cf. John 10:30, 17:11) Jesus lives in us.
This is what we understand under Trinity, don’t we? This is what unites us (most Protestant Churches and the RCC and the Orthodox Churches!), the Trinity - - So we don’t need to recieve Him, for he IS already in us - as he has promised us (cf. John 14:19+20)

God bless you,
Esdra

Esdra you deny Christ in the Eucharist then?

Please read John 6:35-71 until it sinks in. This is the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Jesus told them quiet clear I AM the Bread that came down from heaven. Why do you reject those words of Jesus? He is quiet clear in repeating the bread that I give you is my flesh for the life of the world.

 

[KathleenGee]

Shawn,

You can quote Scripture but without the Word of God becoming flesh, then you are indeed reducing the Word to symbols…a Biblical arbitrary relativism…that only leads to more breaks and fractures within the People of God.

You can go to a Catholic church and see all kinds of classes of people, races, cultures…but we can go to the same church…In the Catholic church, if you don’t like it, you can go to another parish.

Protestant churches tend to have the same kind of people in one congregation. If you don’t like it, you join another church in another branch of thought.

 

[rinnie]

Some symbolism is easier to understand than others. Just because some symbolism may be easier or harder than others to comprehend, does not change the fact that it still is symbolism.

Then Shawn why did Jesus not say this is a symbol of my flesh, this is a symbol of my blood. Why did he say instead My flesh is true food and my blood is true drink. Do you understand what the word True means?

 

[KathleenGee]

Esdra,

I don’t think you really understood what I wrote about the universality and providence Christ gave us in His Church. You seemed to react.

How much in your faithwalk to the Baptist church did you hear anti-Catholic remarks?..if any? Does your Baptist church renounce Catholics as not believing in the Bible? Some how I pick up an attitude that I know doesn’t come from Catholic teachings…and wondered if you hear others saying anti-Catholic things.

I would think that Jesus remaining with us in the Eucharist is most significant and providential…remember the precursors of Exodus…the manna from heaven to feed the people in the desert…the placement of the Infant Jesus in an animal feeder…with the Angel Gabriel specficly pointing His placement to the shepherds…that someday Jesus would be Food to us? Note the subtle insights with the feeder at the Nativity…this is a listening mode to see in depth the inner life that God is extending to us.

I have never doubted my entire life the teachings that Jesus is the Eucharist. Never. And it is a privilege to have this grace.

So Rinnie and others ask you to pray …you, too, Shawn…

First please pray to have the Holy Spirit examine your attitude towards the Catholic Church and the Eucharist and discern more what it really is that is bothering you…and then as the Lord to help you to be open in accordance with His will and …Trust HIm!

 

[Deacon_JAR]

Hi,

This is what we understand under Trinity, don’t we? This is what unites us (most Protestant Churches and the RCC and the Orthodox Churches!), the Trinity - - So we don’t need to recieve Him, for he IS already in us - as he has promised us (cf. John 14:19+20)

 

[rev_kevin]

@shawn38

Read the link and than talk about symbolysm.

Read it and studyed it. I find it to be a fasinating story. This occured during the time when the Prostants Reformermation gave a major blow to the authority of the Papacy and the RCC the 16th century. In the begining of the story the Calvinist Preachers tried but did not succed, Then a Catholic Priest came and with the Blessed Sacrament saved the girl and drove the evil spirits out of her in exactly 3 months. At first she was cured but then God allowed Satan back in her. Could this have been said to prove that the Prostents were wrong about the reformation and about the blow to the Papacy and the RCC in the 16th century? It went on for 3 months and most of the time she was just woke up by the Blessed Sacrament not cured. Also why would God allow this to happen to this girl after she had been cured already? Why put her trough this kind of torture? No reason was given. Sorry but this does not prove to me anything about the real presents.

 

[shawn38]

Esdra;6656361:

Hi,
Seems to me that Christians are to partake of the “breaking of the bread” and the “drinking of the cup” UNTIL HE COMES AGAIN. The first Christians took this MANDATE very seriously. "They devoted themselves to the teaching of the apostles and to the communal life, to the breaking of the bread

and to prayers", (Acts 2:42). They had a complete DEVOTION to this mandate.

Catholics,

Had an apostles shared in the Last Supper with Christ, partaking of the bread and cup, and died before Christ was cruxified, would that apostle had received eternal life?

Did the New Covenant go into effect at the Last Supper or Christ’s death on the cross?

If at the Last Supper:
If the bread and wine were converted into the body and blood of Christ at the Last Supper, via transubstantiation, then there would have been no need for Christ to die for our redemption to take place for Christ was sacrificed.

If on the Cross
If the wine remained wine, but represented Christ’s blood, as the third cup of the Passover represents the blood of the Passover lamb, then the redemption still had not taken place. Therefore Christ still had to be cruxified.

The New Covenant was a contract that only went into effect upon the death of Christ. At that point, our redemption was secured for those in Christ.

 

[rev_kevin]

For you, nothing is good enough to be the proof.
Then return to the Bible.
Jesus said “This is my body”, not “This is a symbol of my body”.
Then He said: “Whoever eats it , will live forever”. (free interpretation).
Of course that one will live forever if he eats THE BODY OF CHRIST, not a symbol of it.

Peace be with you.

This is my body, dont stop there there’s more, GIVEN FOR YOU. What does he mean by these 3 words? Lets see. It was the night he was betrayed [his body given for you] then he went on trial [his body given for you] then he was nailed to the cross [his body given for you] This is my body [the bread being a symbol of his body and what was about to happen to him] Then there are the words DO THIS IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME. When we break bread we are to remember his sacrifice and why he came here to earth. To take away our sins. He was the sacrificial lamb. The new covenant between God and man.

What does Jesus mean by whoever eats my flesh will live forever. Did he mean his real flesh? NO He meant it as a symbol or symbolic of him being the bread of life. To eat his flesh means to accept Christ into our lives and become united with him. Verse 47 says “I assure you, anyone who BELIEVES in me already has eternal life.” Verse 51 “I am the living bread that came down out of heaven. Anyone who eats this bread will live forever, this is my flesh, offered so the world may live.” Meaning: Anyone who believes in me [eats my flesh] will live forever. This flesh [his body] is offered [his death] so the world may live so we will have eternal life} All pointing to a symbol.