How many deny Jesus Christ in the Eucharist?

[KathleenGee]

RevKevin,

I have seen your many posts on different threads pretty much rehashing the same issues and I wonder how many Catholics on CAF have answered you in many ways.

I do not know understand the purpose of why you are spending so much time bringing forth the same issues over and over. I have been reading your posts for a number of months now.

You have been given quotes from the early church regarding the Eucharistic practice of believers, one going back to sub Apostolic age of St. Justinian the Martyr who died in the mid 100’s.

Words can make no sense without the initial practices of the people. And I don’t want to share any more because it is so repetitious that it is now seriously making me wonder why you are spending so much time in protest.

Shawn, you were told that there were those followers of Jesus who left him when he spoke of eating His flesh and blood. When he was with the apostles he said those that eat of Him and drink of Him will receive eternal life…The Last Supper was the institution of the ministers of the church through Peter and the Apostles and the institution of the Eucharist. On Holy Saturday, He descended into hell and delivered the just. On Easter Sunday He rose from the dead and His mission was not complete until he ascended into heaven. The church did not begin until Pentecost. You should study Catholicism. You draw out so many different points and issues, I feel like I am in one of these arcades where you are looking at these objects coming on the screen, you get one out, then another one comes on, and then almost at the same time, another, and another. They don’t challenge me. But nevertheless, your type of questions make me think I am in some shooting gallery. Like, I need a break. Proest protest protest.

Look at the practices of the earliest Christians and times shortly after…the Breaking of Bread, a Jewish custom, is still practiced by Palestinian Christians.

Words upon words will take you no where. It is how the Word of God is incarnated among Christ’s believers.

 

[benedictus2]

RevKevin,

I have seen your many posts on different threads pretty much rehashing the same issues and I wonder how many Catholics on CAF have answered you in many ways.

I do not know understand the purpose of why you are spending so much time bringing forth the same issues over and over. I have been reading your posts for a number of months now.

You have been given quotes from the early church regarding the Eucharistic practice of believers, one going back to sub Apostolic age of St. Justinian the Martyr who died in the mid 100’s.

Words can make no sense without the initial practices of the people.

Others have been told the with Catholics using different takes. There were those followers of Jesus who left him when he spoke of eating His flesh and blood. When he was with the apostles he said those that eat of Him and drink of Him will receive eternal life…The Last Supper was the institution of the ministers of the church through Peter and the Apostles and the institution of the Eucharist. On Holy Saturday, He descended into hell and delivered the just. On Easter Sunday He rose from the dead and His mission was not complete until he ascended into heaven. The church did not begin until Pentecost.

Look at the practices of the earliest Christians and times shortly after…the Breaking of Bread, a Jewish custom, is still practiced by Palestinian Christians.

Words upon words will take you no where. It is how the Word of God is incarnated among Christ’s believers.

For my part, I think it is okay for rev kevin to re-hash the same points. One day, in God’s own time, the Holy Spirit will break through that barrier and the penny will drop.

 

[KathleenGee]

I will just go elsewhere. I do pray for all on CAF.

 

[benedictus2]

So to prove the Catholic Church is Christ’s church, in a way you can’t unless you do a painstaking study of history.

And that, is just too much hardwork. Unless of course you are serious about seeking the Truth.

 

[benedictus2]

I will just go elsewhere. I do pray for all on CAF.

I know it’s frustrating but we must keep trying. What was it someone said - we are not asked to succeed but to be faithful. By our fidelity God HImself will make the success.

You never know it might even be just one phrase out of the many phrases you’ve written, but when the time is right, it will hit the spot and there goes the trumpet of welcome for another member of the Body of Christ.

 

[KathleenGee]

I like RevKevin…

 

[benedictus2]

Read it and studyed it. I find it to be a fasinating story. This occured during the time when the Prostants Reformermation gave a major blow to the authority of the Papacy and the RCC the 16th century. In the begining of the story the Calvinist Preachers tried but did not succed,

They did not only try my friend. The devil even mocked their efforts saying he is not in the least afraid of them. What was it the devil said: the pastors had come at the devils bidding? The devil even goes on to say that the devil at least believes in the reality of Christ’s presence in the Eucharist. The pastors didn’t.

Then a Catholic Priest came and with the Blessed Sacrament saved the girl and drove the evil spirits out of her in exactly 3 months. At first she was cured but then God allowed Satan back in her. Could this have been said to prove that the Prostents were wrong about the reformation and about the blow to the Papacy and the RCC in the 16th century? It went on for 3 months and most of the time she was just woke up by the Blessed Sacrament not cured.

Because God does not always cure straight away. Even Jesus’s time we have the story of the man who needed to be healed a second time before the he could truly see.

As a matter of fact, this drawn out healing only illustrates the great battle between the forces of light and the forces of darkness and show you that the forces of darkness mean business but that the God triumphs in the end.

Also why would God allow this to happen to this girl after she had been cured already?

And why would Jesus not heal the blind man all at once instead of needing a second time?

Why put her trough this kind of torture? No reason was given.

Of course non was given. It was God’s reason. We don’t know God’s reason on this instance. When people die at earthquakes, wars, eetc, does God explain to you why He allows these things to happen. Does He owe you an explanation for what he allows to happen,.

Sorry but this does not prove to me anything about the real presents.

Yes it does. Re-read.

 

[KathleenGee]

When people start to read Christian history, they will find many, many testimonies that will help in turn to understand why we believe.

There is the testimony of SS. Perpetua and Felicity…incredible…who died in Carthage around the year 200 AD.

 

[benedictus2]

I like RevKevin…

Me too. And I like Esdra. And Shawn and everyone who sincerely love our Lord.

 

[KathleenGee]

Amen!

 

[benedictus2]

When people start to read Christian history, they will find many, many testimonies that will help in turn to understand why we believe.

There is the testimony of SS. Perpetua and Felicity…incredible…who died in Carthage around the year 200 AD.

I’ll check that one out. I have heard of them but do not know their story.

 

[shawn38]

We don’t know, shawn. The CC does not have a teaching about what happens to “apostles who share in the Last Supper with Christ, partaking of the bread and cup, and who died before Christ was crucified.”

I suppose it would depend upon whether, in the end, this rhetorical apostle accepted God’s plan for his salvation or not.

It began at the Last Supper and reached its completion at the death of Christ.

If the Mass is one in the same sacrifice as Christ’s crucifixion, was the Lord’s Supper with the apostles also one in the same?

 

[shawn38]

@shawn38

Read the link and than talk about symbolysm.

I didn’t bother reading past the first statement for it was incorrect:

“It is indeed a remarkable fact that, as the devil made use of Luther, an apostate monk, to abolish the Mass and deny the Real Presence;”

olrl.org/stories/exorcism.shtml

Martin Luther believed in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. He became indignant when groups, who had followed him out of the Catholic Church, rejected the presence of Jesus in the Eucharist.

"Who, but the devil, has granted such license of wresting the words of the holy Scripture? Who ever read in the Scriptures, that my body is the same as the sign of my body? or, that is is the same as it signifies? What language in the world ever spoke so? It is only then the devil, that imposes upon us by these fanatical men. Not one of the Fathers of the Church, though so numerous, ever spoke as the Sacramentarians: not one of them ever said, It is only bread and wine; or, the body and blood of Christ is not there present.

Surely, it is not credible, nor possible, since they often speak, and repeat their sentiments, that they should never (if they thought so) not so much as once, say, or let slip these words: It is bread only; or the body of Christ is not there, especially it being of great importance, that men should not be deceived. Certainly, in so many Fathers, and in so many writings, the negative might at least be found in one of them, had they thought the body and blood of Christ were not really present: but they are all of them unanimous.”

–Luther’s Collected Works, Wittenburg Edition, no. 7 p, 391

 

[Cinette]

If the Mass is one in the same sacrifice as Christ’s crucifixion, was the Lord’s Supper with the apostles also one in the same?

Who are these Apostles you say died BEFORE Christ was crucified???

Blessings
Cinette

 

[shawn38]

Who are these Apostles you say died BEFORE Christ was crucified???

Blessings
Cinette

I said “If.” If an apostle died would they have been redeemed for eternity at that point for taking the body and blood of Christ at the Lord’s Supper though Christ’s redemptive work was not complete?

If the mass is one in the same sacrifice as Christ’s crucifixion on the cross, is the Lord’s Supper that was shared with the apostles, one in the same as the mass and crucifixion? Are all three one in the same?

 

[PRmerger]

If the Mass is one in the same sacrifice as Christ’s crucifixion, was the Lord’s Supper with the apostles also one in the same?

I’ll answer your question, shawn, as soon as you answer mine:

Do you know the only occasion in which Jesus used the word “covenant” in the Gospels?

 

[rinnie]

Me too. And I like Esdra. And Shawn and everyone who sincerely love our Lord.

Me Three!! I just do not think that they have the Power of the Holy Spirit to teach scripture thats all.

Jesus left us the Church, not Esdra and Shawn etc.

I think now everyone can see why. Shawn he has his side of the argument , Esdra has his. And we could all have our own also. Thats why I am Catholic. Because there is her side, and his side and then theres GOD’s Side and that’s the truth.

See there are 3 Sides to every story!!

But we all must have ONE truth. That is why there is One Church.

ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC. Now that is the True Church!! Read it, The bible tells you the Church must be One, It must be Holy, Catholic (universal for all) and go by the teachings of the Apostles.

The RCC got it all covered!!

 

[shawn38]

I’ll answer your question, shawn, as soon as you answer mine:

Do you know the only occasion in which Jesus used the word “covenant” in the Gospels?

Last Supper/Passover w/ the apostles when Christ taught the apostles what was to happen via the Passover supper.

 

[PRmerger]

Last Supper/Passover w/ the apostles when Christ taught the apostles what was to happen via the Passover supper.

Excellent!

So we know the New Covenant began at the Last Supper and reached its fulfillment at the Crucifixion.

 

[rinnie]

This is my body, dont stop there there’s more, GIVEN FOR YOU. What does he mean by these 3 words? Lets see. It was the night he was betrayed [his body given for you] then he went on trial [his body given for you] then he was nailed to the cross [his body given for you] This is my body [the bread being a symbol of his body and what was about to happen to him] Then there are the words DO THIS IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME. When we break bread we are to remember his sacrifice and why he came here to earth. To take away our sins. He was the sacrificial lamb. The new covenant between God and man.

What does Jesus mean by whoever eats my flesh will live forever. Did he mean his real flesh? NO He meant it as a symbol or symbolic of him being the bread of life. To eat his flesh means to accept Christ into our lives and become united with him. Verse 47 says “I assure you, anyone who BELIEVES in me already has eternal life.” Verse 51 “I am the living bread that came down out of heaven. Anyone who eats this bread will live forever, this is my flesh, offered so the world may live.” Meaning: Anyone who believes in me [eats my flesh] will live forever. This flesh [his body] is offered [his death] so the world may live so we will have eternal life} All pointing to a symbol.

If Jesus Meant that his Flesh was just a symbol why didn’t he just say that then? Why did he say this is a hard saying. What would make it a hard saying if he meant it was only a symbol then? I do not think any would walk away from him if he said it was a symbol. But scripture tells us quite clear! Jesus did not call them back and say hey listen you misunderstood me. There was no misunderstanding. Christ was quite clear. They know what they heard, they even repeated it as they walked away.

And how many today still do not accept this hard teaching and still deny him in the sacrament and still walk away. How sad!!