How many deny Jesus Christ in the Eucharist?

[benedictus2]

Yet each dogma quotes loads and loads of Scripture.

Slum dunk again.

 

[benedictus2]

Yes. And, if one is an agnostic, whom does he think is doing the inspiring?

Oh Come on. Don’t you the Jedi? It’s the force!

BTW, with regards your signature. No I won’t thank you for that parking space. I don’t drive. But thanks for the seat on the train.

 

[rinnie]

Thats the first time I have heard that. We always called the lead Priest father. As far as that goes we call all the Priests father. We never used the word Pastor.

Whats the difference there Rev Kev, as long as he is acknowledged as what he is, as you said a Priest he is ordained into the Priesthood of God. SO if you call him Pastor or Father whats the big deal. Wasn’t abraham called Father Abraham. Well the Pope is call Papa Pope Father also. He is the Father of the Catholic Church.

 

[PRmerger]

Slum dunk again.

Aw, p-shaw! shaw:

 

[benedictus2]

What does the scripture say?
1 Jn 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God.

Also, apply the test of Scripture just as the Bereans did.

Test it against what?

 

[PRmerger]

Oh Come on. Don’t you the Jedi? It’s the force!

LOL! Yep.

Methinks someone has not thought this “the Bible is inspired but not inerrant” paradigm through quite thoroughly.

BTW, with regards your signature. No I won’t thank you for that parking space. I don’t drive. But thanks for the seat on the train.

Again, pshaw!

 

[Cinette]

I see that you are claiming this. I just don’t see WHY this is necessarily true. All of you Catholics claim this, but no one ever explains WHY. I take it as a matter of your faith, and not as any form of logic.

My point simply is that humans err, even the great prophets erred, even Peter erred. Shortly after the life of Jesus even churches were arguing and falling into error. It seems to me obvious that any institution with which man is associated can potentially err. It is no big deal to me, and I see no insult in saying so.

*Dear Larkin!

The logic is that it makes absolute sense that when Jesus established His Church for all mankind he would ensure that it be preserved intact and free of error. That it would develop and grow. Yes, we all err, even the Pope can err and there have been some very bad Popes but…it is a testimony to the fact that the Holy Spirit ensured that despite the sins of these men the teachings of the Church remained unblemished.

I tell you Larkin that contrary to what you may believe, the Catholic Church is unthreatening. You will find truth and beauty - what may be hard is the moral code of conduct. In today’s world it may appear ridiculous. Other than that the Church contributes so much to our happiness.

My husband was an atheist/agnostic for years and years - a cynic - and you should see him now. He loves the Church. I often watch him as he is reading and I am so pleased that his journey has brought him to the Catholic Church. Did I tell you in a previous posting that one of the things that affected him very much in those 11 years when he attended Mass before converting, was the devotion and reverence of the people around us?

Relax Larkin ask the Holy Spirit to guide you and keep an open mind. Take those ideas out of your mind that we are weird. Just be yourself.

Blessings*
Cinette

 

[rinnie]

Prove that.

He can’t

 

[PRmerger]

My point simply is that humans err, even the great prophets erred, even Peter erred. Shortly after the life of Jesus even churches were arguing and falling into error. It seems to me obvious that any institution with which man is associated can potentially err. It is no big deal to me, and I see no insult in saying so.

I find this illogical from someone who quotes Scripture and says things like, “Jesus wouldn’t ____” or “Jesus did _____”

If one believes that Scripture is potentially in error, then how does someone know this:

What’s wrong with contradicting standard practice? Jesus did. Jesus brought much agitation to his local authorities and to the lives of his followers.

or this:

I don’t think that Jesus cared much about it at all. He refers to it a few times (more in later Gospels, which makes me suspicious), but the core of his teaching is about spiritual cleansing, spiritual healing, and spiritual humility and wisdom.

How does one pick and choose between what Scripture verses actually reflect something that Jesus actually “cared about” and what’s in error?

Even if one reads the Bible as a historical book, if it’s in error, then one ought not refer to things Jesus said and did 'cause one can’t know if that’s one of the errors, yes?

 

[rinnie]

What’s wrong with contradicting standard practice? Jesus did. Jesus brought much agitation to his local authorities and to the lives of his followers.

Where Larkin? Where did Jesus ever contradict scripture? SHow us, What did any of the followers of Christ do that went with the teachings of GOd that Christ disagreed with?

IF you could even show me Just ONE that would be great, But I know you cannot, But try.

 

[benedictus2]

I find this illogical from someone who quotes Scripture and says things like, “Jesus wouldn’t ____” or “Jesus did _____”

If one believes that Scripture is potentially in error, then how does someone know this:

Which reminds me of my church meeting yesterday. The feminist group are saying that maybe some of the scripture (those they perceive as anti-woman) cannot have been inspired and maybe Jesus did not say that. or that it has to be interpreted in the light of the modern culture.

It is not only some agnostic/protestants who reason like this. The same illogical thought pervades the cafeteria catholic brigade.

 

[PRmerger]

Which reminds me of my church meeting yesterday. The feminist group are saying that maybe some of the scripture (those they perceive as anti-woman) cannot have been inspired and maybe Jesus did not say that. or that it has to be interpreted in the light of the modern culture.

It is not only some agnostic/protestants who reason like this. The same illogical thought pervades the cafeteria catholic brigade.

Yep. :sad_yes:

They love to deny the existence of hell (a loving God wouldn’t do that!) despite the fact that no one talks more about hell in Scripture than Jesus–and if hell doesn’t exist that makes Jesus a poor teacher for talking so much about a scary non-existent place.

Yet, paradoxically, they believe all the Scripture verses that talk about God being loving, forgiving and merciful.

If Scripture is wrong about hell, could it be possible that it’s also wrong about a loving God?

 

[benedictus2]

Yep. :sad_yes:

They love to deny the existence of hell (a loving God wouldn’t do that!) despite the fact that no one talks more about hell in Scripture than Jesus–and if hell doesn’t exist that makes Jesus a poor teacher for talking so much about a scary non-existent place.

Yet, paradoxically, they believe all the Scripture verses that talk about God being loving, forgiving and merciful.

If Scripture is wrong about hell, could it be possible that it’s also wrong about a loving God?

That’s too logical. As someone said, common sense is not common.

 

[larkin31]

Where Larkin? Where did Jesus ever contradict scripture? SHow us, What did any of the followers of Christ do that went with the teachings of GOd that Christ disagreed with?

IF you could even show me Just ONE that would be great, But I know you cannot, But try.

Jesus healed on the Sabbath and he overturned tables at the temple. He also called the pharisees hypocrites. These actions contradicted the will and teachings of God’s appointed religious authorities of the day. Jesus was a rebel and not just looking for peace and understanding. He was purposefully being provocative and stirring up the pot.

I did not say that Jesus “contradicted scripture”. “Scripture” did not exist until after Jesus died. Which we all know.

 

[larkin31]

*Dear Larkin!

The logic is that it makes absolute sense that when Jesus established His Church for all mankind he would ensure that it be preserved intact and free of error. That it would develop and grow…*

Could you outline the logic of this rather than just claim that it is logical?

 

[larkin31]

Prove that.

That dogma consists of thousands of pages more than what Jesus said???

Do you need a link to the Vatican web page?

 

[KathleenGee]

Larkin–

Jesus’ gospel says there would never be enough books written about Him.

The Vatican has the greatest library in the world. All about Jesus. You say we have pages and pages of church teachings…these pages are the result of the Apostles and their successors establishing and maintaining churches all over the world.

You cannot have a stand alone Bible…do you know that I consider that use of Scripture almost an idol because it is being used without the Church…and used to split the faith and unity of people using God’s Word against believers. And to use God’s Word to make division to me is a very common form of evil. It is the Evil One who splits and divides, who creates issues that are entities of their own and take hold of a person’s soul that s/he cannot understand, accept, or digest the truths we share with you.

I discern a real spirit of anxiety and agitation when people come on to dispute the Church, especially the sacraments and most of all the Eucharist, the summit and centrality of our faith…the Word Made Flesh that will bring us to eternal life…not our own works…our works are actually the response of Jesus within us to serve others.

You also said pointed out the spirit comes…The priest places his hands over the gifts of bread and wine for the Epiclises when the Holy Spirit comes down from heaven to turn the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ.\

You have to go back to the earliest church practices, you have to acknowledge the church was primitive at its beginning and enduring much persecution. Then there was the Dark Ages when Europe was undergoing constant plundering and destruction by barbarians…

People get so scrupulous about Scripture…even as I see here people being upset that we call the priest Father…we see the context Christ means that only God the Father can provide for us vs the church endearment of calling a priest, ‘Father’, for providing us the Bread of Life.

There have been documents provided here by our ordained Deacon that gives you early documents of the practice of faith.

You have to also realize that Christ forgives church administrators of the past just like he has forgiven you…His mercy is far greater than any human being’s sins. But some how I don’t see the forgiveness of God working through the protestants with their fixations. You have been systematically taught by your leaders to believe such things about the Church, and it is a chronic situation that you can only free yourself.

A person comes to the point to realize that all the explaining won’t suffice until you see the indoctrination that has taken hold of your own soul. Pray for deliverance from false teachers. Pray to find the truth.

Because it requires an act of faith to believe that Christ’s church is indeed the Catholic Church.

 

[Cinette]

Could you outline the logic of this rather than just claim that it is logical?

I am aghast that you cannot see the logic in something so evident and so simple. Before I respond would you mind telling me why you feel that my statement is illogical?

Blessings
Cinette*

 

[PRmerger]

That dogma consists of thousands of pages more than what Jesus said???

Do you need a link to the Vatican web page?

One might consider when reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church looking at the footnotes. Reference upon reference to Scripture.

And any of the documents of the CC all reference Scripture as well!

 

[KathleenGee]

Larkin,

PRMerger gave you a good start. Get hold of a Catholic Catechism. I read an article in our Catholic newspaper a few years ago about a young woman who grew up in an anti-Catholic Christian household.

She became very interested in early Church history. She found a copy of the writings of an ancient catechism. Later she got hold of a modern catechism to see how the Church failed and re-invented itself. She was so surprised that the teachings are the same.

Don’t let others who are competing and biased to allow you to further define us by their definitions. There is evil in it. Instead come to the source and see what we truly believe. And then another, is how we worship. Get a hold of the Sacred Liturgy documents of Vatican II.