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TheTruth0723
Guest
I do not wish to condemn anybody, but I think many of us will enter Hell. Unfortunately.
- Status
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Pentecost2005
Guest
Fascinating, and disturbing, so far. It’s quite long, and I’m just starting to look at it. It sounds like he’s saying that the Roman Catholic Church has gone off the rails by teaching a theology corrupted by paganism, a theology that teaches that God is the source of all evil and is a cruel judge.
I hope there’s more to this article than that. I’ll keep reading…
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Holly3278
Guest
I don’t know because only God can judge.
M
mozier
Guest
I believe that it was Archbishop Fulton Sheen, who said the following:
There will be three things that will amaze you when you enter heaven. First, the people you thought would surely be there are not. Second, the people who thought would never be there are. Three, you are there.
There will be three things that will amaze you when you enter heaven. First, the people you thought would surely be there are not. Second, the people who thought would never be there are. Three, you are there.
L
laadan
Guest
If by “live the good life,” you mean keeping the commandments, the law, you cannot live a good life.
Paul says that the commandments/law, cannot save. Cannot speaks to ability. The law does not have the ability to save, because you do not have the ability to keep it *perfectly *(Rom 3:20; Gal 2:16; 3:11; 3:21). You must keep it perfectly (Mt. 5:48).
James says that if you fail at one point of the law, you are guilty of breaking it all (Jas 2:10). That is because God’s standard is perfection. That is the reason that Jesus, perfectly sinless, was able to make atonement for sin. He bore our sins in His body, so that He might bring us to God (1 Pet 2:24; 3:18)
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Pentecost2005
Guest
And what was the point of this reponse, exactly? She wasn’t claiming that her works will save her. She says she wants to keep the Lord’s commandments to the best of her ability. She admits that she will stumble from time to time. She recognizes that she’s a sinner. She hopes that the Lord will grant her the grace to repent and persevere.
In other words, she wants to emulate Saint Paul and “fight the good fight.”
And you, in typical “Reformed” fashion, miss what’s actually being said so you can sling Bible verses. Good grief.
B
bones_IV
Guest
The Church fathers say that more people will end up in hell than in heaven.
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laadan
Guest
The point is that living a good life has nothing to do with going to hell, yes or no?
Seems to me that you slung a verse. May I do the same?
J
jimmy
Guest
That is a little bit of an extremest site.
J
jimmy
Guest
Actually, living a good life does affect it. “Once saved always saved” is a heresy that is not supported by scripture or any of the church fathers.
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
G
Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
It’s not so - no part of the Church, nor the Church in general, has any way of knowing. This is best something left to the Providence of God - some things, it is better for us to be ignorant of, and to trust God Our Father for. 
The question sound very determinist - no one goes to Hell by mistake or unwillingly; those who desire God, will not lose Him, for that desire is itself His gift. God is rich in mercy, and no tyrant. The Cross proves this. ##
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tuopaolo
Guest
I can confirm having heard the same thing but I don’t remember who it was attributed to. I don’t think it was attributed to the magisterium though it may have been.
G
Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
L
laadan
Guest
Christ says he will lose nothing of those the Father gives to Him, but will raise them up on the last day. John says he has written so that you may know that you have eternal life etc. The scripture does speak to osas. The church fathers declared is heresy, all of them? Who? When? Where?
You don’t believe in osas, because you do not believe that salvation is all of God, and that He will not violate you “free will.”
I equate living a good life with keeping the law (commandments). Paul is very clear that the law does not save (Rom 3:20; Gal 2:16; particularly Gal 3:11; see also Ps 143:2). You are blinded to the singular “word” of the foolishness of God in His simplistic Gospel (1 Cor 1:18). Your eyes are veiled to the Gospel of the Apostles (2 Cor 4:3-4).
The apostles are “sent ones” with the full authority of God. The church fathers are men, and the best of men are men at best.
Believe in the word of God, the one He sent to you.
C
canadianlife
Guest
I have a question…
Is it possible to be saved from Hell? If someone goes there, then truely desires and loves God, will they be saved? I remember someone in my religion class said that after 1000 years or so you can be saved, I don’t know though. I thought eternal meant forever
Is it possible to be saved from Hell? If someone goes there, then truely desires and loves God, will they be saved? I remember someone in my religion class said that after 1000 years or so you can be saved, I don’t know though. I thought eternal meant forever
D
Deacon2006
Guest
Jesus has told us that majority of people will sadly choose, through their own perverse notions of what is good, to enter Hell and that only a minority will stay faithful to the end so that they might enter heaven.
The road is wide and well traveled to hell yet the road to heaven is narrow and little trod.
While we want and pray that all people may enter heaven we must always acknowledge that God loves us so much he will let us choose between false goods such as lust and true goods such as love.
Nobody chooses to have their teeth gnashed but they do choose not to follow the teachings of the church because they think they know better. This sin of pride manifests itself the same way it did for Adam and Eve, they wanted to be like God determining for themselves what is evil and what is good. God will let you convince yourself of anything you choose even if you choose Hell.
God Bless
The road is wide and well traveled to hell yet the road to heaven is narrow and little trod.
While we want and pray that all people may enter heaven we must always acknowledge that God loves us so much he will let us choose between false goods such as lust and true goods such as love.
Nobody chooses to have their teeth gnashed but they do choose not to follow the teachings of the church because they think they know better. This sin of pride manifests itself the same way it did for Adam and Eve, they wanted to be like God determining for themselves what is evil and what is good. God will let you convince yourself of anything you choose even if you choose Hell.
God Bless
T
toppro77
Guest
The Little Number of Those Who Are Saved
By: St Leonard of Port Maurice
The Words of Holy Scripture
But why seek out the opinions of the Fathers and theologians when Holy Scripture settles the question so clearly? Look to the Old and New Testaments and you will find a multitude of figures, symbols and words that clearly point out this truth: very few are saved. In the time of Noah, the entire human race was submerged by the deluge, and only eight were saved in the Ark. Saint Peter says, “ This ark was the figure of the Church” While Saint Augustine adds, “and these eight people who were saved signify that very few Christians are saved, because there are very few who sincerely renounce the world, and those who renounce it only in words do not belong to the mystery represented by that ark.”
The Bible also tells us that only two Hebrews out of two million entered the Promised Land after going out of Egypt, and that only four escaped the fire of Sodom and the other burning cities that perished. All of this means that the number of the damned who will be cast into fire like straw is far greater than that of the saved, whom the Heavenly Father will one day gather into His barn like precious wheat.
I would not finish if I had to point out all the figures by which Holy Scripture confirms this truth. Let us content ourselves with listening to the living oracle of Incarnate Wisdom. What did Our Lord answer the curious man in the Gospel who asked Him, Lord, is it only a few to be saved? Did He keep silence? Did He answer haltingly? Did He conceal His thought for fear of frightening the crowd? No. Questioned by only one, He addressed all of these present. He says to them: You ask Me if there are only few who are saved? Here is my answer: strive to enter by the narrow gate; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able Who is speaking here?
It is the Son of God, Eternal Truth, who on another occasion says even more clearly, Many are called, but few are chosen. He does not say that all are called and that out of all men, few are chosen, but that many are called. Which means, as Saint Gregory explains, that out of all men, many are called to the True Faith, but out of them few are saved. Brothers these are the words of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Are they clear? They are true. Tell me now if it is possible for you to have faith in your heart and not tremble.
Salvation in the Various State of Life
But oh, I see that by speaking in this manner of all in general, I am missing my point. So let us apply this truth to various states, and you will understand that you must either throw away reason, experience and the common sense of the faithful, or confess that the greater number of Catholics are damned. Is there any state in the world more favorable to innocence in which salvation seems easier and of which people have a higher idea than that of priests, the lieutenants of God?
At first glance, who would not think that most of them are not only good but even perfect. Yet I am horror-struck when I hear Saint Jerome declaring that although the world is full of priests, barely one in a hundred is living in a manner in conformity with state. When I hear a servant of God attesting that he has learned by revelation that the number of priests who fall into Hell each day is so great that it seemed impossible to him that there be any left on earth. When I hear Saint Chrysostom exclaiming with tears in his eyes.
Look higher still, and see the prelates of the Holy Church, pastors who have the charge of souls. Is the number of those who are saved among them greater than the number who are damned? Listen to Cantimpre’; he will relate an event to you, and may you draw the conclusions. There was a synod being held in Paris and a great number of prelates and pastors who had the charge of souls were in attendance.
The king and princes also came to add luster to that assembly by their presence. A famous preacher was invited to preach. While he was preparing his sermon, a horrible demon appeared to him and said, “ Lay your books aside. If you want to find a sermon that will be useful to these princes and prelates, content yourself with telling them on our part, ‘We the princes of darkness thank you, princes, prelates, and pastors of souls, that due to your negligence, the greater number of the faithful are damned; also, we are saving a reward for you for this favor when you shall be with us in Hell.”
Woe to you who command others! If so many are damned by your fault, what will happen to you? If few our of those who are first in the Church of God are saved, what will happen to you? Take all states, both sexes, every condition: husbands, wives, widows, young women, young men, soldiers, craftsman, rich and poor, noble and plebian, What are we to say about all these people who are living so badly?
By: St Leonard of Port Maurice
The Words of Holy Scripture
But why seek out the opinions of the Fathers and theologians when Holy Scripture settles the question so clearly? Look to the Old and New Testaments and you will find a multitude of figures, symbols and words that clearly point out this truth: very few are saved. In the time of Noah, the entire human race was submerged by the deluge, and only eight were saved in the Ark. Saint Peter says, “ This ark was the figure of the Church” While Saint Augustine adds, “and these eight people who were saved signify that very few Christians are saved, because there are very few who sincerely renounce the world, and those who renounce it only in words do not belong to the mystery represented by that ark.”
The Bible also tells us that only two Hebrews out of two million entered the Promised Land after going out of Egypt, and that only four escaped the fire of Sodom and the other burning cities that perished. All of this means that the number of the damned who will be cast into fire like straw is far greater than that of the saved, whom the Heavenly Father will one day gather into His barn like precious wheat.
I would not finish if I had to point out all the figures by which Holy Scripture confirms this truth. Let us content ourselves with listening to the living oracle of Incarnate Wisdom. What did Our Lord answer the curious man in the Gospel who asked Him, Lord, is it only a few to be saved? Did He keep silence? Did He answer haltingly? Did He conceal His thought for fear of frightening the crowd? No. Questioned by only one, He addressed all of these present. He says to them: You ask Me if there are only few who are saved? Here is my answer: strive to enter by the narrow gate; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able Who is speaking here?
It is the Son of God, Eternal Truth, who on another occasion says even more clearly, Many are called, but few are chosen. He does not say that all are called and that out of all men, few are chosen, but that many are called. Which means, as Saint Gregory explains, that out of all men, many are called to the True Faith, but out of them few are saved. Brothers these are the words of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Are they clear? They are true. Tell me now if it is possible for you to have faith in your heart and not tremble.
Salvation in the Various State of Life
But oh, I see that by speaking in this manner of all in general, I am missing my point. So let us apply this truth to various states, and you will understand that you must either throw away reason, experience and the common sense of the faithful, or confess that the greater number of Catholics are damned. Is there any state in the world more favorable to innocence in which salvation seems easier and of which people have a higher idea than that of priests, the lieutenants of God?
At first glance, who would not think that most of them are not only good but even perfect. Yet I am horror-struck when I hear Saint Jerome declaring that although the world is full of priests, barely one in a hundred is living in a manner in conformity with state. When I hear a servant of God attesting that he has learned by revelation that the number of priests who fall into Hell each day is so great that it seemed impossible to him that there be any left on earth. When I hear Saint Chrysostom exclaiming with tears in his eyes.
Look higher still, and see the prelates of the Holy Church, pastors who have the charge of souls. Is the number of those who are saved among them greater than the number who are damned? Listen to Cantimpre’; he will relate an event to you, and may you draw the conclusions. There was a synod being held in Paris and a great number of prelates and pastors who had the charge of souls were in attendance.
The king and princes also came to add luster to that assembly by their presence. A famous preacher was invited to preach. While he was preparing his sermon, a horrible demon appeared to him and said, “ Lay your books aside. If you want to find a sermon that will be useful to these princes and prelates, content yourself with telling them on our part, ‘We the princes of darkness thank you, princes, prelates, and pastors of souls, that due to your negligence, the greater number of the faithful are damned; also, we are saving a reward for you for this favor when you shall be with us in Hell.”
Woe to you who command others! If so many are damned by your fault, what will happen to you? If few our of those who are first in the Church of God are saved, what will happen to you? Take all states, both sexes, every condition: husbands, wives, widows, young women, young men, soldiers, craftsman, rich and poor, noble and plebian, What are we to say about all these people who are living so badly?
T
toppro77
Guest
The following narrative from Saint Vincent Ferrer will show you what you may think about it. He relates that an archdeacon in Lyons gave up his charge and retreated into a desert place to do penance, and that he died the same day and hour as Saint Bernard. After his death, he appeared to his bishop and said to him, “Know, Monsignor, that at the very hour I passed away, thirty-three thousand people also died, Out of this number, Bernard and myself went up to heaven without delay, three went to purgatory, and all the others fell into Hell.”
Our chronicles relate an even more dreadful happening. One of our brothers, well-known for his doctrine and holiness, was preaching in Germany. He presented the ugliness of the sin of impurity so forceful that a woman fell dead of sorrow in front of everyone. Then, coming back to life, she said, “When I was presented before the Tribunal of God, sixty thousand people arrived at the same time from all parts of the world; out of that number; three were saved by going to Purgatory, and all the rest were damned.”
O abyss of judgments of God! Out of thirty thousand, only five were saved! And out of sixty thousand, only three went to heaven! You sinners who are listening to me, in what category will you be numbered!.. What do you say?.. What do you think?..
My own comments:
This scares the heck out of me! We must realize who these words are coming from
St Leonard of Port Maurice 1676-1751 is the one writing this article. A real saint of God, who lived a holier life than anyone I know including any religious I personally know. This is not some guy down the street making this stuff up! This is not my writing.
He is speaking about the time of St Bernard 1090-1153. This is before the reformation so before you think that the greater part of the 33,000 that went to Hell were protestant, think again! At this time, those in the world were either Catholic, Jew or Pagan. Also consider the life these people had to lead compared to ours. How much more penance did they do just by living without all the conveniences we have today. Also we have more temptations thrown at us just walking out the door or turning on the TV than these people had their entire life.
The other part of the article is relating a story from St Vincent Ferrer 1350-1419. I included these dates so you can see the time frame they lived. This too is before the reformation. He says that 60,000 died and only 3 were saved by going to Purgatory not heaven. How many years did they spend in Purgatory which is Hell with a way out after suffering for many years. The average stay in Purgatory according to several saints is about 40 years.
Sorry if this was so long but, the church has changed the laws of penance so much that we do almost no penance at all these days. In the days of old (circa 1960) we fasted for the entire time of Lent and were only allowed one meat meal a day, not just Fridays with no meat. Plus we had Fasts before Holy Days and the church fasted on Ember days throughout the Year. A toal of more than 50 days of fast and abstinence, Now replaced with only 2.
One can only imagine who was behind the idea of taking penance away from us. Could it have been hell? Our Lord said in St Luke 13:5 “But except you do penance you will all likewise perish.”
Our chronicles relate an even more dreadful happening. One of our brothers, well-known for his doctrine and holiness, was preaching in Germany. He presented the ugliness of the sin of impurity so forceful that a woman fell dead of sorrow in front of everyone. Then, coming back to life, she said, “When I was presented before the Tribunal of God, sixty thousand people arrived at the same time from all parts of the world; out of that number; three were saved by going to Purgatory, and all the rest were damned.”
O abyss of judgments of God! Out of thirty thousand, only five were saved! And out of sixty thousand, only three went to heaven! You sinners who are listening to me, in what category will you be numbered!.. What do you say?.. What do you think?..
My own comments:
This scares the heck out of me! We must realize who these words are coming from
St Leonard of Port Maurice 1676-1751 is the one writing this article. A real saint of God, who lived a holier life than anyone I know including any religious I personally know. This is not some guy down the street making this stuff up! This is not my writing.
He is speaking about the time of St Bernard 1090-1153. This is before the reformation so before you think that the greater part of the 33,000 that went to Hell were protestant, think again! At this time, those in the world were either Catholic, Jew or Pagan. Also consider the life these people had to lead compared to ours. How much more penance did they do just by living without all the conveniences we have today. Also we have more temptations thrown at us just walking out the door or turning on the TV than these people had their entire life.
The other part of the article is relating a story from St Vincent Ferrer 1350-1419. I included these dates so you can see the time frame they lived. This too is before the reformation. He says that 60,000 died and only 3 were saved by going to Purgatory not heaven. How many years did they spend in Purgatory which is Hell with a way out after suffering for many years. The average stay in Purgatory according to several saints is about 40 years.
Sorry if this was so long but, the church has changed the laws of penance so much that we do almost no penance at all these days. In the days of old (circa 1960) we fasted for the entire time of Lent and were only allowed one meat meal a day, not just Fridays with no meat. Plus we had Fasts before Holy Days and the church fasted on Ember days throughout the Year. A toal of more than 50 days of fast and abstinence, Now replaced with only 2.
One can only imagine who was behind the idea of taking penance away from us. Could it have been hell? Our Lord said in St Luke 13:5 “But except you do penance you will all likewise perish.”
J
Jesus4Me
Guest
Reminds me of newspaper clipping I keep taped where I can see it everyday:
Take These Lines To Heart
I dreamed death came to me one night and heaven’s gates flew
open wide.
With kindly grace St Peter came and ushered me inside.
There to my astonishment were friends I had known on earth,
Some I had labeled as unfit and some of little worth.
Indignant words flew to my lips: Words I could not set free,
For every face showed stunned surprise -
No one expected me.
Only God knows.
- Status