how not to be poor

[royal_archer]

I’m going to tell you about a buiness from years back that was utterly sucessfull, here in Grand Rapids. It was a auto body shop that had the simple name of Commercial Auto painting. Don’t let that fool you they did the full gammit of autobody work on cars back in the day. They were high volume because business grew on account that people knew when they brought a car there to be worked on the owner did take money for the work done till he inspected it and knew what was leaving his shop was perfect, not just good, but with absolutley no imperfections whatsoever. Everyone had a specific job they did and only that job, and got well payed for it, because the owner felt good inside when he rwarded for good work. Back in the 1930’s had had a frame straightner technician that drove to work everyday frrom a small town about 60 miles north of Grand Rapids where this bodyshop was. Framestraightning was new back in those days and they guy did such a good job at it the owner made sure it was worth his while to drive from so far away to work every day…

This reinforces my point that good workers will be rewarded.

disagreements with workers and foremen were to be handled in a quick manner with the owner, and anything even hinting at office politics was strictly forbidden. Because office politics meant someone would be treated unfailry and office politcs would make the shop operation inefficient. The owner thought unfairness to employees is a sin that would get a business owner or manager the fires of Hell no questions asked.

That depends on what you consider to be unfair. manty less qualified workers consider it unfair when the better worker gets the opportunity. While a lot of what falls under the umbrella of politics is wrong, There is nothing wrong with a manager trying to fill his team with the best workers or with the best workers trying to get on the teams with the better managers.

That owner was a preVatican II minded type Catholic, and helped build one of the larger parishes here in Grtand Rapids. Oh yes his work week for his workers was 8 to 5 monday thru friday. Someone might work and hour or two of overtime once in a months time, but that was a rarity. This body shop was the only body shop with in 50 miles in any direction qualified to work on Packard cars. While being an autobody shop owner, he did so well he was living the life style of a big city car dealership owner. When his son took over in the early 1970’s it all went in to the toilet because he ws more a typical bisiness owner. The good workers left because of office politics, they were replaced with cheap peaaple, and the downward spiral continued till it clsed August of 1978. See bussineses can do fine without the fanny kissing you imply needs to be in business. So the answer to your first question, in most times of the past I would say no, but things have gotten so bad I have to say yes.

What you describe here with the son is not even good buisness practice. and there is an obvious reason why the company went out of buisness. This is the natural state, good companies continue on while bad companies go under.

I never advocated kissing up. I only advocated being the best in order to achieve the better opportunities. Managers who want to be successfull will tend to take on the workers who will bring them success.

That body shop by the way., if it were still around, I’d be inline to inherit it. If my dad would have gotten it there would be no office politics and it would have been so efficiently run that Hitler would be at awe.

It is very disapointing that you would pick Hitler as a model of efficiency.

If it got into my hands office politics would be strictly forbidden and I’d run it very efficiently too.

Like Hitler?

American business today is a joke, it’s a welfare program for brown nosers and those who do the real work are left out in the cold. If industry gets run by governemnt think of it as a similer punishment from God as to when Israel was carried off to Babylon.

Have you found a mentor in your company? Someone who could give you honnest feed back on what you could do differently to open opportunities? This may help.

 

[royal_archer]

I was helping out others all the time. Maybe I could of been moved up to sales? With the long 11 hour days I worked not being busy made the day slow , so I was always busy. That kind of questioning hints at you making excuses for the car dealership The hours I put in wrecked my home life to the max, never again.

Sales is a very difficult job, I could never survive doing it. It requires a very good set of social skills.

…Several years later I got fired by a different manager in that company for being too rountine and too anisocial. . .

I am not making excuses for anyone. Nor am I holding any employer responsible for your personal well being. Assuming that the job you had was a bad job, just move on and work hard at the next job. Giving up never works.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Like Hitler?
Ofcourse I’m not a fan of Hitler. But Hitless is the historical figure that everyone agrees on to having been eficient. Any other name that I know of would of not gotten the point accoss as far as proving efficiency goes. I could use the as an example for eficiency the late coach of the Dalla Cowboys, Tom Landry. I think he was very eficient, but not everyne agrees and not everyone would know who I am talking about. While everyone knows Hitler was evil, everyone also knows Hitler was very eficient. I was trying to prove eficiency not morality. The two are very easily separable. To be a manager in a company I own you had better be able to make those type of separations very readily.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Sales is a very difficult job, I could never survive doing it. It requires a very good set of social skills.

I am not making excuses for anyone. Nor am I holding any employer responsible for your personal well being. Assuming that the job you had was a bad job, just move on and work hard at the next job. Giving up never works.

I was giving an example of one job. This **** has happnend to me about a 1/2 a dozen times. Hopw many times do you think I should run in to the brick wall before giving up?

 

[royal_archer]

Like Hitler?
Ofcourse I’m not a fan of Hitler. But Hitless is the historical figure that everyone agrees on to having been eficient. Any other name that I know of would of not gotten the point accoss as far as proving efficiency goes. I could use the as an example for eficiency the late coach of the Dalla Cowboys, Tom Landry. I think he was very eficient, but not everyne agrees and not everyone would know who I am talking about. While everyone knows Hitler was evil, everyone also knows Hitler was very eficient. I was trying to prove eficiency not morality. The two are very easily separable. To be a manager in a company I own you had better be able to make those type of separations very readily.

What about Ford, Deming, Whitney, Taylor, Edison?

When I think of Hitler, the term efficient is not the first that pops into my head. How can you consider gassing millions of your own people efficient?

Hitler created an environment of fear through out the German government. Out of terror hitler did accomplish things that the left still marvels at today but that is deffinately not the type of efficiency that I want the governement forcing on our businesses.

 

[royal_archer]

I was giving an example of one job. This **** has happnend to me about a 1/2 a dozen times. Hopw many times do you think I should run in to the brick wall before giving up?

Untill you reach success. Presuming you are learning from the bad jobs of your past, eventually you will find a job that this right for you. you only loose hope for finding that decent job when you stop trying.

 

[aspawloski4th]

aspawloski4th;5746174:

What about Ford, Deming, Whitney, Taylor, Edison?

When I think of Hitler, the term efficient is not the first that pops into my head. How can you consider gassing millions of your own people efficient?

Hitler created an environment of fear through out the German government. Out of terror hitler did accomplish things that the left still marvels at today but that is deffinately not the type of efficiency that I want the governement forcing on our businesses.

While I know all those you mention to be eficient, I don’t use them as eficiency examples because they are not know for beig efficient as much as the other thing they are known for. Ever heard of the Weimar republic??? When Hitler took over it had 5 digit inflation. It took a wheel barrel load of money to buy a loaf of bread. In a couple short years that type of inflation was history. Sounds pretty eficient to me! Remember the radio news man Paul Harvey? He used to say “self rule without self regulation, will lead to opression”. The business world has abused the privelige of runing their own ship misserabley, now they are about the reap the punishment they deserve. if you compare the business world to ancient Israel, they are about to get the Babylonian captivity they deserve.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Untill you reach success. Presuming you are learning from the bad jobs of your past, eventually you will find a job that this right for you. you only loose hope for finding that decent job when you stop trying.

I’m 41, this has been going on over 2 decades. I’m sick n tired of it.

 

[royal_archer]

I’m 41, this has been going on over 2 decades. I’m sick n tired of it.

Only 6 bad jobs over 23+ years of work is not a bad deal. I probably had that many bythe time I was 21.

Have you found a mentor who can help you find a better job or help you better understand how to get a better job?

 

[jmcrae]

Who said 12 hours a day?

Why are people having kids prior to being financially secure enough to do so?

It’s a very simple biological principle. Most people don’t become financially secure until after their child-bearing years are over. Keep in mind, you have a window of age 16 to 30 to give birth to a healthy first-born. Once the first one is born, you can give birth well into your forties, but if you don’t have a first-born before the age of 30, then your chances go down of being able to have kids at all, or of being born without some kind of learning disability.

Those who are looking for high-end employment typically don’t even finish school until they are 26 years old (to complete a doctoral degree), which has them starting out in the working world and starting their families pretty much all at the same time.

 

[royal_archer]

It’s a very simple biological principle. Most people don’t become financially secure until after their child-bearing years are over. Keep in mind, you have a window of age 16 to 30 to give birth to a healthy first-born. Once the first one is born, you can give birth well into your forties, but if you don’t have a first-born before the age of 30, then your chances go down of being able to have kids at all, or of being born without some kind of learning disability.

Those who are looking for high-end employment typically don’t even finish school until they are 26 years old (to complete a doctoral degree), which has them starting out in the working world and starting their families pretty much all at the same time.

Those getting doctoral degrees are not likely to have difficulty finding a job.

If someone can not get a secure job by the time there child bearing years are over, maybe they were not meant to have kids?

Perhaps women should not date/marry men who are not financially secure even if it means marrying slightly older men. After all it is the mothers age that primarrily drives the issues you are refering to.

 

[aspawloski4th]

It’s a very simple biological principle. Most people don’t become financially secure until after their child-bearing years are over. Keep in mind, you have a window of age 16 to 30 to give birth to a healthy first-born. Once the first one is born, you can give birth well into your forties, but if you don’t have a first-born before the age of 30, then your chances go down of being able to have kids at all, or of being born without some kind of learning disability.

Those who are looking for high-end employment typically don’t even finish school until they are 26 years old (to complete a doctoral degree), which has them starting out in the working world and starting their families pretty much all at the same time.

I’ll add to this. If my parents would of “waited” to have children. I would of not known my grand parents nearly as long as I did or have had greatgrand parents at all. Both of which I value highly. When I was born I had all 4 grand parents, 7 great grand parents and one greagreat grandmother. That is a good model to base familys on. It was my maternal grandfather who was most responsible for me gettig my first car and driversliscense. When I was 22 it was my paternal grandmother at my side at the hospital when I had my first kidneystone ( she was a nurse at that hospital). The later people have children the smaller familiies tend to be on both the nuclear and extended scale. When I had my wedding in 1994, there were 4 generations of Pawloski’s attending. The business model of our society needs to change to become more family friendly. Family need to start when people are 20, not 35.

 

[pathia]

If that were truly indicative of the market, then wouldn’t you want to try to get into those tiers of management where you get the higher pay?

By the way the managers do not just give themselves pay raises, theose raises have to be approved by the owner or the board of directors represtenting the owners. They only give those pay raises to managers who give the best return on investment. With the Obama ecconomy, sometimes the best performance is the minimalization of losses. But still they wer selected for those possitions and given that pay because it was believed it would help the company as a whole. So instead of complaining about it, workers should consider how to make themselves better able to support the company.

Chairman of the Board is the CEO and the primary owner of this particular company, not a majority, but a plurality of the shares

And I cannot get into management, I am a sick person, as discussed in other threads. 30hours a week is about my max, before I start to get very sick.

 

[jmcrae]

Those getting doctoral degrees are not likely to have difficulty finding a job.

Landing the job is not their problem - keeping it is. They will go through a few jobs before they gain the experience they need to hold down a secure job from which they cannot be fired. It takes a while even for the genius crowd to get on to good workplace habits.

If someone can not get a secure job by the time there child bearing years are over, maybe they were not meant to have kids?

All married people are “meant” to have kids, unless they find out that they are infertile for some reason.

Perhaps women should not date/marry men who are not financially secure even if it means marrying slightly older men. After all it is the mothers age that primarrily drives the issues you are refering to.

So, we leave the younger men single? Too many single young men in a society also causes breakdown, with the formation of gangs and secret societies. Unless you remain in a perpetual state of war where you can send all the young men away to the battlefield to burn off their energy, you are setting yourself up for chaos in your neighborhoods.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Landing the job is not their problem - keeping it is. They will go through a few jobs before they gain the experience they need to hold down a secure job from which they cannot be fired. It takes a while even for the genius crowd to get on to good workplace habits.

All married people are “meant” to have kids, unless they find out that they are infertile for some reason.

So, we leave the younger men single? Too many single young men in a society also causes breakdown, with the formation of gangs and secret societies. Unless you remain in a perpetual state of war where you can send all the young men away to the battlefield to burn off their energy, you are setting yourself up for chaos in your neighborhoods.

Which would not be good for businesses! You needed that to get his attention.

 

[jmcrae]

Which would not be good for businesses! You needed that to get his attention.

Right yes - all of the houses in your neighborhood being burned down is okay, but God forbid that the businesses be adversely affected.

 

[royal_archer]

I’ll add to this. If my parents would of “waited” to have children. I would of not known my grand parents nearly as long as I did or have had greatgrand parents at all. Both of which I value highly. When I was born I had all 4 grand parents, 7 great grand parents and one greagreat grandmother. That is a good model to base familys on. It was my maternal grandfather who was most responsible for me gettig my first car and driversliscense. When I was 22 it was my paternal grandmother at my side at the hospital when I had my first kidneystone ( she was a nurse at that hospital). The later people have children the smaller familiies tend to be on both the nuclear and extended scale. When I had my wedding in 1994, there were 4 generations of Pawloski’s attending. The business model of our society needs to change to become more family friendly. Family need to start when people are 20, not 35.

There is no reason people can not start a family in their early 20’s .
I fthey work a job part time in highschool and get a good job after graduation.

 

[royal_archer]

Chairman of the Board is the CEO and the primary owner of this particular company, not a majority, but a plurality of the shares

And I cannot get into management, I am a sick person, as discussed in other threads. 30hours a week is about my max, before I start to get very sick.

I am sure that CEO is doing what they feel is in their best interst as a share holder.

The discussion has been focused around healthy individuals. While I have seen many people with medical conditions find companies who work with the individual to fin them a way to earn a decent living, I am not sure the standard work hard approach will get the same results.

 

[royal_archer]

Landing the job is not their problem - keeping it is. They will go through a few jobs before they gain the experience they need to hold down a secure job from which they cannot be fired. It takes a while even for the genius crowd to get on to good workplace habits. .

A job from which the cannot be fired??? If you are a good worker you don’t have to worry about being fired. You make it sound like it is normal for people with doctoral degrees to be getting fired.

All married people are “meant” to have kids, unless they find out that they are infertile for some reason. .

Then maybe not all people are meant to be married if you throw that constraint on it. The church does not teach that you are expected to have babies you can not afford to raise.

So, we leave the younger men single? Too many single young men in a society also causes breakdown, with the formation of gangs and secret societies. Unless you remain in a perpetual state of war where you can send all the young men away to the battlefield to burn off their energy, you are setting yourself up for chaos in your neighborhoods.

That would be a lot of single men knowing that if they wanted to find a girlfriend or wife, they better get a job. That job may help burn off some of their extra energy that so concerns you.

 

[royal_archer]

Right yes - all of the houses in your neighborhood being burned down is okay, but God forbid that the businesses be adversely affected.

Do you really belive that if a guy does not get a girlfriend or wife for a few years he will turn into a pyromaniac? If a person would he would not make a very good husband.