How the Catholic 'alt-right' aims to purge LGBTQ members from the church

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And honestly, I wish the Church would stop harassing homosexuals, or anyone else on the LGBQT spectrum, and get her own house in order.
And I honestly wish that people would stop accusing the Church of something she isn’t doing.
The gay parishioner, at least, is being honest with himself and with others, unlike Cardinal O’Brien:
I’ve said this in other threads, but I don’t know how I’d identify a “gay” person at Mass unless he/she manifested his/her behavior in some way.
 
OTOH, when some of His followers said “This is a hard saying,” and left, Christ did not go after them and say, well, hang out anyway. And He told the Apostles to shake from their sandals the dust of the towns in which people would not listen to them.

To me, we preach the Good News, and welcome people who accept that good news.

I do not think anyone should be chasing a person simply for having SSA out of the Church, but getting “married” is a step backwards in holiness, isn’t it? It does not indicate that that person is trying to live chastely and failing, it’s a public commitment to sinful behavior.
 
but getting “married” is a step backwards in holiness, isn’t it?
It might not be, if the starting point was a life of promiscuity. And it could be that getting legally “married” was the only way to ensure certain legal inheritance rights, sort of like sometimes a civil divorce is needed to ensure certain rights after separation, which the Church reluctantly allows.

Note I don’t support same-sex marriage, I believe it is an oxymoron. But states often enact laws that aren’t well thought-out and sometimes folks need to use those laws to protect their rights.
And I honestly wish that people would stop accusing the Church of something she isn’t doing.

OraLabora:
I must have missed the paragraph in the Catechism that says vandalism and uttering threats in order to eject someone from his ministry was not harassment if he were openly gay. But I suppose technically it is not the “Church” but people who claim to be a member of her.
I’ve said this in other threads, but I don’t know how I’d identify a “gay” person at Mass unless he/she manifested his/her behavior in some way.
And therein lies the crux of the matter: encouraging gays to choose hypocrisy over honesty.

I can certainly understand the argument that we only want upstanding Church members to hold positions of ministry in the Church. So I would assume that we should also be barring other sinners from ministry in the Church…
 
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But I suppose technically it is not the “Church” but people who claim to be a member of her.
Exactly, except it is more than a technicality. It is a point of serious distinction. Like you said, holiness is something to strive for, whether we struggle with sexual sin of some flavor, or hatred and intolerance. Purging the Catholic Church from LGBTQ ideology that contradicts doctrine is good. Purging the people is bad. So being of two minds on this makes sense in a way.

I do not know if I can agree with gay marriage being a step forward from promiscuity, but I at least understand the argument. It is similar to what Fr. Martin has said, for which he has been greatly misunderstood and misrepresented.
 
I do not know if I can agree with gay marriage being a step forward from promiscuity, but I at least understand the argument.
I think the answer lies in the effort required to get there, rather than the marriage itself. Intent probably plays a role here. If the purpose of getting “married” is simply to have a steady supply of gay sex, maybe it’s not really a step forward. If the purpose is “maybe I should settle down and not run around so much, and I genuinely love this person so why not give faithfulness a shot”, then perhaps it is a step up. But that’s not something the average person in the pew can really know. It’s an issue for the confessional. For us ordinary punters in the pews:
They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. (CCC 2358)
As my confessor says, God rewards the effort above the result, presumably because the result maybe easy for some, and very hard for others. It’s easy for a heterosexual to avoid falling into same-sex temptation, so there are no “points” to be gained by a heterosexual saying “I never had same-sex relations” while facing St. Peter at the Pearly Gates. But a gay person who finds it tough and tried but often failed, will be rewarded for his efforts, even if his efforts fall well short of a perfect result.
 
It might not be, if the starting point was a life of promiscuity. And it could be that getting legally “married” was the only way to ensure certain legal inheritance rights, sort of like sometimes a civil divorce is needed to ensure certain rights after separation, which the Church reluctantly allows.
Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. (CCC 2358)
I do not think it is unjust discrimination to refuse certain positions in the Church to manifest sinners.

Marriage is a public institution. As a public institution, any attempt at marriage by members of the same sex are proclaiming something publically, and it is not that they want a specific person to be able to inherit from them.

I think that heterosexual couples who enter into or are engaged in irregular marriages should also be refused employment in Church positions, because their situation is very similar to that of those in SSA marriages.

However, if for some reason the person in such a situation is not fired, I do not think it is in any way a good thing to hound him out of his job as was described in the article.

As to the mitigating factors you mentioned, they do not negate the public aspect of marriage and so I still think it is not unjust to refuse the employment.
 
I think that heterosexual couples who enter into or are engaged in irregular marriages should also be refused employment in Church positions, because their situation is very similar to that of those in SSA marriages.
The Church won’t marry a couple that is completely and irreversibly impotent. Yet some older widowers and widows in this situation would like to marry in order to ensure survivor benefits to the other when one dies. So they will contract a civil marriage, which does confer those legal rights. So it will be “publicly known” when the banns are posted in the courthouse (though I wonder how many actually read those). This will be a chaste, but definitely “publicly” irregular marriage. Should they be barred from Church ministry because they are “manifestly” creating scandal by living in an irregular marriage even though it is a Josephite union?

Fortunately, I don’t think anyone in the Church would think of doing this, though you never know what some legalistic types would do.

Now consider a elderly homosexual couple “long past” the sexual stage of their relationship. They have been discreetly living together for years, not being “in your face” about their homosexuality, and otherwise faithful Catholics except this one failing. The chastity that willpower failed to achieve has been imposed on them by age and infirmity. They see the looming end. They would like to ensure survivor benefits, especially if one of the pair is in a weaker economic position. The only way to achieve this in their state/province, is through civil same-sex “marriage”.

I really don’t see too much difference in either situation. Both couples may be in a state of grace (the homosexuals having confessed the sins they no longer can engage in; the heterosexuals whatever sins they may have been guilty of). Neither are trying to create scandal, just trying to ensure that their partners are not in economic difficulty in the event of death.

Now let’s assume that some nosey person likes to read the banns at the courthouse, and discovers the notices for both the heterosexual couple and the homosexual couple. What is the likelihood that this person targets the gay couple who, for sake of argument, one of which is an EMHC, instead of the heterosexual couple in the same ministry?

This is where pastoral care comes in, and where a “one-size fits all” solution leads to injustice, and why sin is a matter for the confessional because “manifest public sin” may in fact be a situation where the penitent is in fact in a state of grace. The Church can and should in fact make wide-ranging judgments on the morality or not of acts, but can and should also give pastoral latitude for individual circumstances as she cannot foresee every possible combination and permutation of situations.

And why the person in the pew should keep his or her nose out of the affairs of others, and trust in the pastor to determine whether a gay person is fit for ministry or not.
 
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trust in the pastor to determine whether a gay person is fit for ministry or not.
I guess the cases I have heard of were where the person publicized the situation themselves, mostly by putting it on FB, so you have widened my acceptance of a pastor’s decision in discreet situations–which so far have been discreet enough that * haven’t heard about any!
 
Code of Canon Law:
Can. 1084 §1. Antecedent and perpetual impotence to have intercourse, whether on the part of the man or the woman, whether absolute or relative, nullifies marriage by its very nature.
 
Thank you so much!

I found the next part a bit confusing:

§2. If the impediment of impotence is doubtful, whether by a doubt about the law or a doubt about a fact, a marriage must not be impeded nor, while the doubt remains, declared null.

While I think I can figure out what “doubt about a fact” might mean, I’m at a loss as to what “doubt about the law” means. I don’t get how impotence is decided by law. Do you happen to know?

Also, I had assumed that “antecedent and perpetual impotence” in a woman meant sterility, but it looks like that’s a separate issue:

§3. Sterility neither prohibits nor nullifies marriage, without prejudice to the prescript of ⇒ can. 1098.

If sterility is not the same as impotence, then how can a woman be impotent? Lol, calling Dr. Ruth! Hopefully, you know that, too.

Again, thanks.
 
Impotence is the inability to engage in the act of marital relations. To the best of my knowledge, the priest who is marrying the couple is not required to verify the fact of impotence or impotence. He relies on their testimony. Any doubt would be resolved in favor of the marriage. To be an impediment, the impotence must be present prior to the marriage (antecedent), permanent, and incurable.

It should be noted that if one is ‘marrying’ someone of the same sex, marital relations are inherently not possible, since there is no sexual complementarity.

Infertility is not an impediment to marriage.
 
To the best of my knowledge, the priest who is marrying the couple is not required to verify the fact of impotence or impotence. He relies on their testimony.
Yes that’s correct. When we had our marriage convalidated some years ago, when we were in our fifties, the question was asked by the priest, but as he told us, priests always give the couple the benefit of the doubt.

Especially these days as there are so many medical solutions to impotence on the man’s side (Viagra, injections, implants).
 
Leave it up to NBC to characterize 1000 children as “victimized” due to a report by the AG in Pennsylvania.

The report was about allegations and/or settlements. It does not imply that there were a 1000 victims. Victims means that the accused priests are “guilty”. Only a jury can declare guilt; the AG does not have that power.
 
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