How the nuclear family was forced on black families

[vz71]

One of the main points of the article is that traditional African culture places more emphasis on the village than the American nuclear family model which almost completely discounts the village.

It is an attack upon the family.
No more, no less.

The logic they use amounts to little more than claiming that is how African tribes did it, therefore it is best for them.

There was no study cited, not even anecdotal evidence that their scheme works better for raising children.

It makes for little more than another way to separate people and hurt children.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

It’s not mutually exclusive to have nuclear families and for these families to support and be supported by relatives and the larger community.

Some times I think these articles are trying to continue to push a narrative that isn’t working for the Black communities— absent fathers.
Which then keeps them firmly in poverty.

 

[Annie]

Famously David Livingstone was unable to make the Africans reject polygamy, even with the one African that he managed to convert to Christianity

From what I have read, most but not all traditional African societies did practice polygamy in the sense that one man would have more than one wife (properly called polygyny).

replaced a Matriarchal structure with a Patriarchal one.

Societies in which polygyny is the norm are not matriarchal. (One of the problems I have noticed over the years is a sort of idealization of past social structures according to the needs/desires of the observers.)

Polygyny is a terrible practice because it restricts marriage to fewer men than usually exist in a given population. The creates a problem which must be solved.

Some societies “solve” the problem through war, others by simply kicking the “excess” young men out as fundamentalist Mormons do.

 

[Ridgerunner]

traditional African culture places more emphasis on the village than the American nuclear family model

I’m sure ancient Celtic, Teutonic, Latin, Greek, Hebrew, Slavic, Arabic and Chinese culture did too when small villages were the rule and cities few or non-existent. There are still elements of it in American society. It’s not peculiar to African societies. But polygamy is not essential to any of them.

This seems like a lot of Marxist hogwash to me; just one more way of increasing vulnerability of citizens and making them dependent on government. Interesting how black families did better from the standpoint of crime and substance abuse back when most blacks married and did not live in a coven.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Some societies “solve” the problem through war, others by simply kicking the “excess” young men out as fundamentalist Mormons do.

Or both. A number of Indian tribes had polygyny and the excess men became semi-exiles and full time warriors and raiders. Same was true of the Huns, early ARabs and some other raider societies.

In my experience, at least, the true “matriarchal” societies in this country are among the hillbillies. They are very much matriarchal by consent, and the older the woman, the more “moral power” she has over everybody else, including men and young women. Al Capp had it exactly right when he portrayed the whole Yokum family as being under the authority of “Mammy Yokum”. Exactly right.

But polygyny was not part of it.

 

[PaulinVA]

So, I read the article and read all the comments.

I’m not surprised that, like everything on CAF nowadays, the opinions split along political lines.

I would question why a prevailing opinion is that the ideal white nuclear family pattern is the preeminent one that everyone should follow. What a coincidence! It’s like Dick Chaney leading a group to determine the best VP pick for Bush, and it turned out to be…Dick Chaney!

White Americans tend to think that their ideal life should be exported to everyone around the world and right here at home because it’s just so darn right.

I’m not expressing an opinion about patriarchy versus matriarchy or family versus village, just making an observation.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

I would question why a prevailing opinion is that the ideal white nuclear family pattern is the preeminent one that everyone should follow.

Well…is the model of the absentee father working for the Black community? Did it lift them out of poverty?

It is possible to be conservative and be correct about things

 

[PaulinVA]

Well…is the model of the absentee father working for the Black community? Did it lift them out of poverty?

Well, no. However, is the model of a matriarchal society wrong? Is communal raising of children wrong?

Absentee Black dads are an artifact of the war on drugs. Criminal Justice reform would sure help there.

It is possible to be conservative and be correct about things

Absolutely! Conservatives have a long history of good ideas. Just not so much now.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Actually, the nuclear family was never supposed to be a groups in isolation. It isn’t healthy.
Married couples and their children are supposed to be part of a supportive network of relatives and family.
Isolated nuclear families run into trouble real quick.
So do fatherless families.

Drugs and incarcerations are definitely a puzzle piece in the breakdown of poor families (both Black and White), but another piece is the glamorization of a sexually liberated, no-strings-attached ethic that gives guys no reason to stay with a woman they’re having sex with, while convincing the woman of how hip and modern she is.

 

[PaulinVA]

Isolated nuclear families run into trouble real quick.
So do fatherless families.

Motherless families as well?

Now, I think mom and dad and the kids works best. I think either parent missing causes problems. Those problems are different, depending on whether it’s mom or dad.

but another piece is the glamorization of a sexually liberated, no-strings-attached ethic that gives guys no reason to stay with a woman they’re having sex with, while convincing the woman of how hip and modern she is.

Yes, one of the flaws of feminism is thinking that the goal is to be more like men. What you wrote above could be a topic for a whole new thread.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Motherless families as well?

Oh yes.
They’re less common, but kiddos need mom and dad, as much as can be possible

 

[GKMotley]

I has spoken.

 

[Sarcelle]

Me too.

I lived with cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparents.

For those who oppose government welfare, the extended family can provide additional help to beleaguered nuclear families.

 

[Sarcelle]

0Scarlett_nidiyilii:

Isolated nuclear families run into trouble real quick.
So do fatherless families.

Motherless families as well?

Now, I think mom and dad and the kids works best. I think either parent missing causes problems. Those problems are different, depending on whether it’s mom or dad.

but another piece is the glamorization of a sexually liberated, no-strings-attached ethic that gives guys no reason to stay with a woman they’re having sex with, while convincing the woman of how hip and modern she is.

Yes, one of the flaws of feminism is thinking that the goal is to be more like men. What you wrote above could be a topic for a whole new thread.

The sexually liberated no strings attached ethic shouldn’t be for men either.

 

[Sarcelle]

It’s not mutually exclusive to have nuclear families and for these families to support and be supported by relatives and the larger community.

I don’t get why conservatives are opposed to the concept of nuclear families being supported by extended family and by the community. By the community, I do not mean government. I mean by the ordinary man or woman on the street, not politicians.

 

[StudentMI]

It’s worth keeping in mind that the nuclear family makes sense in a certain historical situation, but not outside of it.

So Catholic teaching on the family is just an artifact not applicable across cultural lines?

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

I don’t get why conservatives are opposed to the concept of nuclear families being supported by extended family

Do conservatives really oppose this, or is it just another stereotype?

I mean, you can’t get more conservative than the Amish or the Hassidic Jews, and they have strong nuclear families and strong communities of relatives and friends.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

The tragedy recently is the destruction of the nuclear family that was serving American blacks So well prior to the Great Society programs.

American black families prior to the Great Society programs:

 

[LeafByNiggle]

But polygamy is not essential to any of them.

Nor is polygamy an essential part of the article.

This seems like a lot of Marxist hogwash to me…

When one is on the lookout for the Marxist boogyman, one will see him everywhere.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

One of the main points of the article is that traditional African culture places more emphasis on the village than the American nuclear family model which almost completely discounts the village

Yeah…but wasn’t that also true of medieval or even early modern European culture as well? If the nuclear family was imposed on Blacks…then maybe we could say it was also imposed on whites… I think the “it takes a village” was pretty much universal until fairly recently…

That is true. The modern American model of the nuclear family is bad for whites too, but whites imposed it on themselves. We don’t know if blacks would have made the same choice if they were the fashion setters. Maybe, maybe not.