How the nuclear family was forced on black families

[LeafByNiggle]

Their children are recruited into gangs,

because there are not as many non-gang opportunities, like good rec centers, or jobs, for those kids.

“Our research shows that of American adults who followed these three simple rules, only about 2 percent are in poverty and nearly 75 percent have joined the middle class…”

Those rules may be simple to state, but for some people, not so easy to follow. When a family is in crisis, sometimes the children cannot stay in school to finish high school.

The nuclear family may not be perfect, but it seems to work better than what is happening now among too many poor black communities.

That is not the comparison made in the article. The comparison was between the American model nuclear family and the traditional African model of a more extended family with a greater role for the mother.

 

[Annie]

Another example of confusing a statistic with a universal claim.

This is what you wrote:

So saying that the nuclear family “served American blacks so well” really means it served them well enough to scrape by.

No limitations on the use of the phrase “black families.”

The disparities in wealth between white and black families seem to be due to bad policies such as redlining rather than being part of intact nuclear families.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

Another example of confusing a statistic with a universal claim.

This is what you wrote:

So saying that the nuclear family “served American blacks so well” really means it served them well enough to scrape by.

No limitations on the use of the phrase “black families.”

…in which case people understand that it is a statistical claim.

The disparities in wealth between white and black families seem to be due to bad policies such as redlining rather than being part of intact nuclear families.

I am not saying that the nuclear family model has made black families poorer. I am saying that it was not enough to erase the disparities from other causes (such as the red-lining you mentioned.) Therefore one cannot really say that the nuclear family model has served them well. The best you can say is that it didn’t hurt. But a more extended family model might have helped them even more than the nuclear model. That was a point made in the article.

 

[Annie]

Wrt your first two points, they pretty much prove my point.

If you have an area in which there are many fatherless families, you have an area with greater chances of family crisis which cause children to not go to school, with greater crime driving job-supplying businesses out, and lower tax bases with which to build rec centers (altho many generations grew up w il thout rec centers and managed to do ok).

That is not the comparison made in the article. The comparison was between the American model nuclear family and the traditional African model of a more extended family with a greater role for the mother.

You have been criticizing the nuclear family on the basis that intact nuclear black families did not do as well as white families. That is what I responded to.

As to your claim that the article compares the outcomes of those living in traditional African societies and those living in intact nuclear families in the US, no, the article did not do that.

As far as I can tell, the article presented some kind of idealized, unsupported idea of a generic traditional African society and made a few claims that that was something black Americans should now aspire to or something…

 

[Sarcelle]

On average white people were more well to do than black people in the past.

You can point to outliers all day long but that doesn’t disprove this fact.

Add to that the Jim Crow laws in the South were blacks weren’t even considered to be equal with white people.

 

[Sarcelle]

I think you missed his point.

Leaf is in no way against nuclear families. He’s just saying it’s not enough. Extended families made up of intact nuclear families is best. Mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles, grandparents, all helping each other out is best than mother and father out by themselves struggling.

 

[Zach]

Read Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, and Robert Woodson. They sure think the nuclear family was great for blacks and it’s breakdown starting In the 1960s devastating. Of course they base it on data not ideology. I’ll go by what these serious scholars say not some ideological Marxist writing in a magazine nor random people posting on an Internet forum.

 

[Sarcelle]

I don’t see anyone arguing against nuclear families for black people.

In fact we are arguing for additional support to the nuclear family in the form of extended family.

 

[Zach]

The problem is in the majority of cases there is no nuclear family, meaning, father, mother and children. That’s what the authors I mentioned find to have been so devastating. Let’s start with that and then work up to extended families. But sorry if I’m a bit out of sync with the gist of the thread. I just logged on and didn’t have the time to read all 80+ posts.

 

[Culter]

Could this be an anti-family Westerner attacking Western conservatives ?

According to traditional Christian family structure, there’s a core (nucleus) based on a mother and father and the children they bring forth that also doesn’t exclude extended family members.

What are they saying is better? A single mom helped by other single parents? We kind of have that now in many Western places with the government taking the place of the rich uncle (are they complaining about that Western imposition? ).

 

[Culter]

Leaf is in no way against nuclear families. He’s just saying it’s not enough. Extended families made up of intact nuclear families is best. Mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles, grandparents, all helping each other out is best than mother and father out by themselves struggling.

Who is against extended family? I mean, this seems like the traditional norm in Christian countries. Are they saying that Western Christian moms don’t welcome help from Grandmothers and aunts?

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Are you talking about an economic interdependence? Then you’re prolly right. I was thinking more about emotional interdependence.

 

[Victoria33]

The article is from Canada, McLeans, nothing wrong with that… but you know, demographically, it’s a whole different situation, different history.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Who is against extended family? I mean, this seems like the traditional norm in Christian countries.

Not as much as in Africa. Here we read:

Family in the African context often refers to what in western terms would be the extended
family. A family is generally constituted by three processes, which are blood relations, sexual unions or adoption…

Blood relations in Africa typically constitute wider relationship than those that are characteristically in western nuclear families. African families are typically extended to aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins and other relatives that form a family that functions in unison. The broad concepts of family in many African societies is illustrated in Mandela’s autobiography “Long Walk to Freedom” where he states, “My mother presided over three huts at Qunu, which as I remember, were always filled with babies and children of my relations. In fact, I hardly recall any occasion as a child when I was alone. In African culture, the sons and daughters of one’s aunts and uncles are considered brothers and sisters, not cousins.” In several African communities, family is not limited to space and time, thus, it cuts across generations, relatives living far and near, the living and those who have joined the ancestors, as well as the ancestors themselves who continue to play a role in the lives of the living (Lugira, 2009). This may be viewed as a very inclusive family system, which models the broader inclusive nature and type of African communities, creating a family-like lens through which several social actors are included and relationships interpreted. Obligations to wider kin vary with time, and typically more widely invoked during times of crises, or during certain life cycle events such as funerals and this remains a common practice in extended families on the continent, despite social change.

 

[Annie]

Yes, I agree with that. What I do not agree with is the idea that somehow this is something black people in particular need–the article struck me as “othering” those of African descent, or something (I am not sure I got the point of the article right), nor do I agree with Leafby’s apparent suggestion that the intact nuclear family somehow hurt them.

 

[Sarcelle]

From what I understood from Leaf, is that black families because of being on average poorer than white families, need the additional support of extended families.

He did not any way say that the nuclear family is bad for black people. He just said the nuclear family is not enough. I agree with this.

 

[Sarcelle]

Could this be an anti-family Westerner attacking Western conservatives ?

According to traditional Christian family structure, there’s a core (nucleus) based on a mother and father and the children they bring forth that also doesn’t exclude extended family members.

What are they saying is better? A single mom helped by other single parents? We kind of have that now in many Western places with the government taking the place of the rich uncle (are they complaining about that Western imposition? ).

You’ll have to read the rest of the thread again. No one is against the nuclear family. I just said that the nuclear family will need support from time to time and during the past, that support was given by the extended family. I shake my head sometimes. Is the concept of extended families so alien to Americans?

I reiterate that we can start with the rebuilding of the nuclear family but we shouldn’t stop at that. We can strengthen the nuclear family by giving it additional support via the extended family.

Those of you who are against government welfare should be for this. Rugged individualism for the individual and for the nuclear family, isn’t enough especially during the difficult times. If you are against government welfare then the help should come from extended family. Or should nuclear families tough it out on their own?

 

[Pattylt]

Another factor to consider is that housing in America doesn’t allow multiple families to reside under the same roof. Grandma and gramma, maybe but it cuts off at aunts and uncles.

 

[Cruciferi]

Are you referring to government housing, apartments and rentals? I cannot find any restrictions on a private house.

 

[Pattylt]

Actually, most of them, too, depending on the city regulations. Plus, a large private home in most larger cities are beyond the majority of people’s budgets. There are exceptions, I agree, and I don’t know which cities allow multiple heads of households to live under one roof. That may also vary.

This was an especially big problem when many Vietnamese emigrated to the US. Any multi family dwelling was targeted by neighbors for legal restrictions on the number of families living together. Americans do not adapt well to other cultures lifestyles.