How to confront Catholic antisemitism?

[TK421]

gracepoole:

In other words:

“I don’t believe that antisemitic Catholics exist.”

** shows evidence **

“I don’t believe that antisemitic Catholics exist.”

As you just said, please stop mischaracterizing my comments. And as meltzerboy2 says; there is antisemitism among Protestants, Muslims, Blacks, and other groups, including Jews themselves.

But we’re not on a protestant, Muslim, black, Jewish, or “other people” forum. We’re on a Catholic forum, talking about Catholics. What other groups of people do or don’t do shouldn’t affect what we do or don’t do. If somebody else jumps off a bridge it doesn’t mean you should jump of a bridge, etc. The title of the thread is “Catholic antisemitism”.

Again, the defensiveness is puzzling. I don’t understand why we’re having a debate on this.

 

[Aquinas11]

Nobody here has shown anti-Catholic bigotry that I can see. Addressing an unhappy trend within the Church isn’t bigotry. If a person won’t even diagnosis a problem then

See your second and third sentences (with zero evidence) as answer to first sentence

 

[TK421]

People have already presented evidence. You’ve rejected it for mysterious reasons.

 

[gracepoole]

So increasing Catholic anti-Semitism is not documented?

I am not trying to be argumentative, I am greatly concerned about the general increase in anti-Semitism, but I want to know how/where it appears in the Church. Without that information, it’s hard to answer the question posed as the purpose of this thread.

I actually said there’s been an uptick globally in antisemitism and provided evidence, and I said I’ve noticed antisemitism among some Catholics and provided evidence.

 

[Mark121359]

and I said I’ve noticed antisemitism among some Catholics and provided evidence.

Yeah…a couple random posts on Twitter who could be members of Al-Qaeda for all we know!

 

[DeniseNY]

Do you really believe that?

 

[tafan2]

Ok, fair enough. At this point, I suppose the best way to confront Catholic anti-Semitism is to call it out when we see it occur. I have not seen any institutional problem, so it is a matter of confronting individual offenders when it occurs.

 

[TK421]

I also think dioceses could do courses on certain topics using primary source material from the 2nd Vatican Council, which addresses topics that are particularly relevant in a more connected world.

There is a lot of 2nd hand information related to the Second Vatican Council, but anybody reading this post could do a mental check-up and ask themselves if they’ve ever sat down and read the documents themselves. If not, it would be a good idea. We don’t benefit from the wisdom of the fathers of the Council nearly as much as we should.

 

[Usagi]

Dude, most of the people discussing this are Catholic.

A Catholic noting an increasing presence of anti-Semitic voices that are also (or claim to be) Catholic is not an example of anti-Catholic bigotry. No one is ascribing any belief r behavior to Catholics in general or traditional Catholics in general, just stating the fact that there are people who likely consider themselves more Catholic than the Pope who say horrific things about Jews and Judaism online. One hopes they are few in number and low in popularity, but if they are louder and more numerous than they used to be, in line with the general increase in open anti-Semitism, that’s a problem we can rightly discuss.

 

[Rau]

It’s extremely disappointing that people try to make excuses/defend Catholics by minimising or trivialising anti semitism. Of course it exists. I’m not American or European but I still see it. Are people really so infected by the political climate that they can’t be bothered anymore?

Not sure if anyone is doing that. The resistance seems to arise from the implied suggestion that Catholics, Trad Catholics at that, are an unexpectedly large proportion of the problem. Is there evidence that that is so?

 

[Rau]

You said the prevalence of antisemitism among Catholics is horrifying with zero evidence backing up that statement

You can’t cite any evidence or study backing this up because it’s false

Is this twitter evidence statistically meaningful?

 

[EndTimes]

We’re clearly dealing with a global upsurge in antisemitic speech and activity, and recently I’ve become aware of how prevalent antisemitism is among some Catholics on platforms like Twitter.

This is a very serious accusation.

Would you care to provide some concrete evidences?

_

 

[Rau]

We’re clearly dealing with a global upsurge in antisemitic speech and activity, and recently I’ve become aware of how prevalent antisemitism is among some Catholics on platforms like Twitter.

The “global upswing” is a serious claim, but the reference to Catholics not necessarily. Who/how many is “some Catholics”? Is the Twitter crowd representative? One might think that Grace believes Catholics at large are exhibiting anti-semitism - were that her claim, that would be serious.

If the claim is that a few Self-proclaimed Catholics are behaving badly, and risk garnering a wider following, then let’s address that.

 

[EndTimes]

The “global upswing” is a serious claim, but the reference to Catholics not necessarily.

Then… Catholics should’ve prolly naught been given mention then, yes?

Thing is, antiSemitism is Wrong and is not the only anti- around.

AntiChristianity is extremely rampant as well - all over this globe. .

Arguably the largest Anti- in this worldy world.

The OP IS: How to confront Catholic antisemitism…

It’s a very pointed and very serious accusation. And from Whom does it come from?

_
_

 

[Lea101]

Not sure if anyone is doing that. The resistance seems to arise from the implied suggestion that Catholics, Trad Catholics at that, are an unexpectedly large proportion of the problem. Is there evidence that that is so?

OP gave evidence of anti semitism being on the rise. The focus on Catholics is because this is a Catholic forum and she’s talking about how we can correct the problem within the church. Aka, how do we make sure OUR community doesn’t fall prey to this sin.

As Catholics, we should be open to seeing the flaws in our own community instead of immediately getting defensive. Especially when the topic is about hateful people in our community, not that our community is hateful.

It’s an issue of concern when Catholics get too defensive over this because of excuses like ‘it’s a small portion of us’ or ‘other groups are more guilty’ because it shows pride and that we aren’t capable of improving the Church imo.

 

[Zaccheus]

So my question is this: how can right thinking (as in properly formed thinking) Catholics respond to this? How can we confront and denounce it? What do you think would be most effective? Lay groups? Priests speaking out in homilies? Diocesan efforts? Individual responses to antisemitism when we see it? Something else entirely?

My immediate reaction? Point out that Jesus is a Jew and that Mary the mother of Jesus is a Jewish woman.

 

[Lea101]

Point out that Jesus is a Jew and that Mary the mother of Jesus is a Jewish woman.

When they inevitably respond with how they are much different from the average Jew, and how Jews are our enemies, i respond with Luke 6:32.

“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them.”

This verse never fails to call me out again and again for treating people badly.

 

[TK421]

OP gave evidence of anti semitism being on the rise. The focus on Catholics is because this is a Catholic forum and she’s talking about how we can correct the problem within the church. Aka, how do we make sure OUR community doesn’t fall prey to this sin.

As Catholics, we should be open to seeing the flaws in our own community instead of immediately getting defensive. Especially when the topic is about hateful people in our community, not that our community is hateful.

It’s an issue of concern when Catholics get too defensive over this because of excuses like ‘it’s a small portion of us’ or ‘other groups are more guilty’ because it shows pride and that we aren’t capable of improving the Church imo.

^ Sermon on the Mount.

 

[Polak]

You said 'if for any reason". Don’t you think anti-semitic actions would tend to be cause for unhappiness?

I have seen 'Jews are afraid and looking to leave Britain/Poland/France etc. in many articles for many years, and yet somehow they never do.

Jews are apparently suffering terrible anti-Semitism in Poland and looking to leave. At least that’s what the media tells you. Of course the Jews themselves who live in Poland, when asked, for the most part, will tell you they are quite happy there.

So you see there are particular media outlets looking to push certain narratives and propaganda, like they want Jews to live in fear, and when you actually go to Jews themselves in a particular country and ask them if they are fearful when they leave their house each day, they’ll say no.

I’m not saying there are no anti-Semitic attacks. I know they have occurred more recently in countries like Germany and France, and they are not being perpetrated by Catholics.

What I’m saying is when I read an article that tells me anti-Semitism is rising or Jews live in fear and want to leave, I don’t immediately believe it, and I am certainly very skeptical if I read it in Israeli media.

 

[Polak]

Separating my posts due to the character limit in each post.

You don’t have to agree with experts – but why wouldn’t you? By virtue of being experts they empirically know more than you do.

So anytime an ‘expert’ says something it has to accepted. Do you know how many ‘experts’ sit in TV studios to discuss sports and give their ‘expert’ opinions, that end up being completely wrong? Do you know how often financial experts have told us what would happen and they were completely wrong? I can tell you, it happens a lot. Is there even such a thing as an expert on anti-Semitism?

I have read their definitions of anti-Semitism and agree with some parts of the list, but not with others. Am I not a free thinking human being who is able to examine things and reach my own conclusions? Do I also have to go by what others say, particularly when they make statements that, whatever way you look a it, however many experts there were there, are opinion based, not factual.

By the way, there are many experts, academics and scholars who have been shunned and censored, because their academic expert opinions were considered controversial and unacceptable. We live in a society where only some expert opinions matter. People are constantly rubbishing claims of academic scholars and experts because they make a comment or statement that is considered unacceptable in today’s world.

It should be seen as antisemitism. Claiming that Jews are more loyal to Israel is evidence of the myth that Jews are part of a worldwide cabal bent on their success and the destruction of other peoples.

Well I disagree with you on this. The definition doesn’t talk about claiming ‘the Jews’ (generalising) are more loyal to Israel, it says ‘claiming Jewish citizens’. This could be one citizen, or a handful of them, who happily admit they care more about what goes on in Israel than wherever they live, and if I make that statement, it would be deemed anti-Semitic. I can’t believe you see this as anti-Semitism.

If, for example, the claim is made that a Jewish political candidate can’t be trusted because he or she is naturally more loyal to Israel, this is antisemitic.

But what if there is clear evidence that they are? How can facts be anti-Semitic? It depends on the situation. If people assume this just because the candidate is Jewish, that is different.