How to deal with "Every religion thinks it's the right one"

[Servant19]

If I’m happy and decide to try to make others happy as well, does that mean I’m not really happy?

If I know the truth and try to share it with others, does that change the fact that it’s the truth?

NextElement, I am severely confused…

It was only 1 month ago that you advised me on PM that you wanted to become a Bahai because after prolonged searching and research you have decided it is the Truth.



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[Bahman]

If I’m happy and decide to try to make others happy as well, does that mean I’m not really happy?

Happiness is of course a positive thing but no one can prove that the truth is solely beautiful and happy.

If I know the truth and try to share it with others, does that change the fact that it’s the truth?

The problem is that the truth is not a package gifted by God to a set of individuals. It cannot be given hence the mind has to be ready to conceive it and to do so one need extreme mind challenge to prepare his/her mind to be capable of getting the truth. Once mind is there, there is no point to give the truth but get the truth since it comes with self-enjoyment of finding the truth.

It wouldn’t be easy task to give the truth once you find the truth, since either the truth is common sense which means that other individual are already know it, or it is not which means that you are in a difficult position since your words most of the time doesn’t make any sense at all.

 

[Bahman]

I don’t believe it’s considered o.k. for you to be invited to this web site for the purpose of enccouraging Catholics to radically doubt their faith on the presumption they don’t already have the truth.

Sounds like you are urging them to re-invent a crooked wheel like the one you are riding on.

I am having a happy ride since I am going somewhere, whereas others accept the truth sine they believe they found the truth, either as a result of finding it is very convincing or pleasing hence they are not going anywhere since 2000 years.

 

[Bahman]

Have you been relating the truths you have found?
You are going down the wrong road.
You will not be making progress continuing down that path.
Progress wil happen when you turn back.
Get back to scripture. The New Testament is wonderful - read and reread it; pray.

I have read my own scripture which is full of fallacies, discriminations, false promises, … and I as human being couldn’t find them convincing. When I read other scriptures I find the same problems on top of that I find that each claim that they own the truth, meanwhile contradicting each other. How reading scripture could help me? Do you want me to give you a list of contradictions?

How sure you are that you are not going down a wrong road? It just becomes clear at the end who is wrong who is right if there is any end. Do you believe that there exist an end that we all should meet there?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Happiness is of course a positive thing .

Could be, depends how you derive what you call happiness. Could be that unhappiness may be a blessing too. Could be happiness may turn out to be a curse.

The truth isn’t contingent to the individuals idea of happiness. It could be though.

For example Elijah wanted to die. I’m confident he was not the definition most would define as “happy”. But his unhappiness indeed was a blessing yet realized.

Basically God ignored the “I want to die part” and sent more food for the long journey ahead.

Happy isn’t to be exchanged with responsibility. Happiness is subject to the truth. Which isn’t doing surveys on personal happiness about it?

 

[Bahman]

What exactly is “the truth” and how would you recognize it without knowing what it is you are seeking for?

The absolute truth is the claim that it can provide an explanation of existence of all beings if there is any absolute truth. Simply answering to following questions: What we are? Where we came form? Where we are going? Is there any beginning? Is there any end?

Your insistence that there is truth to be found carries with it a presumption that the truth is already known and merely re-cognized. This was Plato’s point and the reason he posited forms. Neoplatonists have followed suit.

Absolute truth cannot be found since it is fully exhaustive. Our minds are alive and moving because they are searching the truth.

Aristotelians. Thomists and Scholastics posit the intelligibility of reality as mediated by the intelligible form (actuality) that material (potentiality) is endowed with by Actus Purus, the Unmoved Mover (aka God)

Because they first accepted the causality as being absolutely true and they also accepted that there is indeed a beginning. Drop one of these facts and you see there is no need for the concept of God.

The very fact that we cannot explain the free will within the framework of causality means that one of them is wrong. We however believe in free will hence causality framework cannot be absolutely true. Simply, how you could accept intelligence in an causal chain?

The problem with dismissing these a priori just to search for an undefinable, unknown “truth” is that you can offer no reason to think that your “truth” is even necessary to your world view. You can offer no explanation for why you think truth can be found or even how you would recognize it when it has been found.

The fact that there are minds and they are searching for something means that there is a truth. Mind movement is the result of absence of something so called absolute truth
, once this condition is satisfied there is no need for mind to move in another word mind freezes.

In another word, mind state X->Y which result in a change. If there is no change then there is no move namely X->X. What causes this move is either internal, self cause or free will in your language, or external.

If “truth” is merely externally grasped, there is no necessary connection to the internal consciousness that grasps it. How does the internal intellect know when truth is at hand? What is the mechanism by which truth is known to be truth?

Truth has two parts, one part is external and one part is internal being different by connected. The absolute truth cannot be grasped as it is stated. The truth however could in which the state of mind goes from X->X temporary meaning that the state of mind reached a stable point accepting a finite set of counterfactuals accepting a set anomalies as well. The set of counterfactuals guarantees that X->X or in another word the system of thought is self-consistent and anomalies guarantees that the movement is unnecessary.

 

[GaryTaylor]

But there is an absolute truth, indicative by the questions in the first paragraph above. Basically “why are we here” sums it up, and certainly there cannot be multiple answers. Also the question requires learning, which could also mean when all this is accomplished, there would be no need to exist as we know it for there would be nothing else to learn by it.

 

[Bahman]

Could be, depends how you derive what you call happiness.

The be does depend on anything that cause move, including sadness, happiness, desire, and free will which might never understand.

Could be that unhappiness may be a blessing too.

To be means that you can experience since you are blessed no matter how do you feel and what cause move.

Could be happiness may turn out to be a curse.

Yes, it could be as if it forfeits you to reach other state of minds as they are all necessary.

The truth isn’t contingent to the individuals idea of happiness. It could be though.

It cannot as all state of minds are necessary for what we call it maturity of mind.

For example Elijah wanted to die. I’m confident he was not the definition most would define as “happy”. But his unhappiness indeed was a blessing yet realized.

Yes as it is stated before. Being in single state of mind is a curse and change is necessary.

Basically God ignored the “I want to die part” and sent more food for the long journey ahead.

As it was needed.

Happy isn’t to be exchanged with responsibility.

Happiness, sadness, responsibility, good, evil… they are all different state of minds and they are all necessary.

Happiness is subject to the truth.

It is not. All states of mind are necessary hence one of them is not subject to the truth.

 

[Bahman]

But there is an absolute truth, indicative by the questions in the first paragraph above. Basically “why are we here” sums it up, and certainly there cannot be multiple answers. Also the question requires learning, which could also mean when all this is accomplished, there would be no need to exist as we know it for there would be nothing else to learn by it.

There is an absolute truth and there is not. It could be partially touched but not completely since it is exhaustive. The learning is the process toward getting close and closer to it which takes eternity.

 

[GaryTaylor]

There is an absolute truth and there is not. It could be partially touched but not completely since it is exhaustive. The learning is the process toward getting close and closer to it which takes eternity.

Right, as far as our existence or state of being here, which will understandably progress towards infinity.

But to comprehend the truth and and to touch this, why isn’t this happiness ordered to the truth, this understanding is also in relation to being. So what is the happiness other than being content in your own being which is in touch with absolute truth. However the actual word may be defined I think it would give it clarity in this overall understanding.

 

[Bahman]

Right, as far as our existence or state of being here, which will understandably progress towards infinity.

But to comprehend the truth and and to touch this, why isn’t this happiness ordered to the truth, this understanding is also in relation to being. So what is the happiness other than being content in your own being which is in touch with absolute truth. However the actual word may be defined I think it would give it clarity in this overall understanding.

Because the absolute truth is neither beautiful nor ugly. One brings happiness and another one sadness depending on the situation. The point is good and evil are necessary. Beauty and ugly are necessary. For any entity there is another one completely opposite completing each other without one another one loses its meaning each each per se does’t have any meaning.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Because the absolute truth is neither beautiful nor ugly. One brings happiness and another one sadness depending on the situation. The point is good and evil are necessary. Beauty and ugly are necessary. For any entity there is another one completely opposite completing each other without one another one loses its meaning each each per se does’t have any meaning.

So what is the happiness other than being content in your own being which is in touch with absolute truth. Which is in your understanding of “why we are here”.

I concede the evil, but looking past that, beautiful and ugly are in relation to perception. I may be talking to a polka dot midget, which may have nothing to do with his relation to the whole or how he found himself and God. In fact he may be able to help me see God, be it I’m not to narrow minded to reject him.

So the evil, what is the evil least we loose some at this turn?

 

[Bahman]

So what is the happiness other than being content in your own being which is in touch with absolute truth. Which is in your understanding of “why we are here”.

The problem is that the touch is very temporary and it is not complete hence there is a time being down afterward unless you seek the truth constantly.

I concede the evil, but looking past that, beautiful and ugly are in relation to perception.

It is not related to perception but impression.

I may be talking to a polka dot midget, which may have nothing to do with his relation to the whole or how he found himself and God. In fact he may be able to help me see God, be it I’m not to narrow minded to reject him.

Nice to hear this.

So the evil, what is the evil least we loose some at this turn?

We are like a pyramid each stone has to carry some weight. One has to be more evil once another one chose to be more good unless someone we don’t know lets call it God should take care of balance. Good and evil, ugly and beautiful, full and empty, meaningful and meaningless …they all should be perfectly balance each other otherwise there would be no existence and non-existence which is basic element of changes, namely time.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Seems to me there is no refuge from ourselves unless we come upon the absolute truth. Safe to say there are plenty of lost? I think also this is where morality and philosophy blend rather nicely.

 

[Bahman]

Seems to me there is no refuge from ourselves unless we come upon the absolute truth.

Very true and we will reach it at the edge of time, eternity, when there is no time since there is nothing left more to see.

Safe to say there are plenty of lost?

That is our main duty to make sure that we take the advantage of time and search the truth the best we can. We will then search the rest in another world until the edge of madness. Hand in hand, mind with mind, we search for everything.

I think also this is where morality and philosophy blend rather nicely.

Could you please elaborate?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Could you please elaborate?

For example evil, how is evil understood in relation to morality as individuals which serves the absolute truth. Admittedly here there are various models or paradigms such as Islam or Buddhism and so forth. However evil isn’t historically simply a religious understanding of Christianity. So this becomes complex, so in truth what is required is further dialogue and more important tolerance.

 

[Bahman]

For example evil, how is evil understood in relation to morality as individuals which serves the absolute truth. Admittedly here there are various models or paradigms such as Islam or Buddhism and so forth. However evil isn’t historically simply a religious understanding of Christianity. So this becomes complex, so in truth what is required is further dialogue and more important tolerance.

First, lets see if we could agree on a definition of good and evil? Good is the force that brings minds to together, namely toward unity, and evil does the opposite. Like and dislike. With “like” we could think and be cohesively, and with “dislike” we could think and be different. The “like” is the place that we could share our ideas and then “dislikes” comes so we could look for new ideas.

 

[Aloysium]

I have read my own scripture which is full of fallacies, discriminations, false promises, … and I as human being couldn’t find them convincing. When I read other scriptures I find the same problems on top of that I find that each claim that they own the truth, meanwhile contradicting each other. How reading scripture could help me? Do you want me to give you a list of contradictions?

How sure you are that you are not going down a wrong road? It just becomes clear at the end who is wrong who is right if there is any end. Do you believe that there exist an end that we all should meet there?

So we might agree that there is a road.
We are not wandering aimlessly in a desert, feeding off vanities as the newspapers and history would suggest.
Nor are we like satellties hurtling to nowhere in space, at the mercy of blind gravitational forces, as we might appear through the lens of the physical sciences.
It sounds like you are unsure whether this journey has a final destination. Now, you could be just a litigious sort of person, perhaps trying to get the last word in a long lost argument with an overbearing father. One sees that here from time to time. But, I think there is a transcendent reason for your being on these forums, searching.

There is a way, in fact the Way, who is a person: the Word incarnate.
On the Path one is transformed, as are one’s relationships with the world, with others and with God.
There is more beauty, more light, more fullness of being, in spite of, and frequently as a consequence of the sufferings the world brings.
Reality reveals itself.

Reading scripture, your own holy writings in fact, will present you with the truth.
Where there is an apparent contradiction, this is where your mind has failed to grasp the Whole.
The “pieces” may in themselves seem contradictory, but they have their place in Reality.
This is the aim of sacred texts: to point you to the living Truth, transcending the muddle of mundane thought.

 

[Bahman]

So we might agree that there is a road.
We are not wandering aimlessly in a desert, feeding off vanities as the newspapers and history would suggest.

No, the number of roads is bigger than number of selves if not smaller. Don’t you agree with that?

Nor are we like satellties hurtling to nowhere in space, at the mercy of blind gravitational forces, as we might appear through the lens of the physical sciences.
It sounds like you are unsure whether this journey has a final destination. Now, you could be just a litigious sort of person, perhaps trying to get the last word in a long lost argument with an overbearing father. One sees that here from time to time. But, I think there is a transcendent reason for your being on these forums, searching.

Do you really like to see the end? Do you believe that we see the end after our death or at the time of resurrection? Do you believe that there was a beginning?

The reason that I am here is that I can discuss thing with other human beings not been afraid of being killed because I think otherwise. You apparently don’t know what a Muslim being means!?

There is a way, in fact the Way, who is a person: the Word incarnate.
On the Path one is transformed, as are one’s relationships with the world, with others and with God.

Could you please elaborate?

There is more beauty, more light, more fullness of being, in spite of, and frequently as a consequence of the sufferings the world brings.
Reality reveals itself.

Reality reveals itself when we are ready.

Reading scripture, your own holy writings in fact, will present you with the truth.
Where there is an apparent contradiction, this is where your mind has failed to grasp the Whole.
The “pieces” may in themselves seem contradictory, but they have their place in Reality.
This is the aim of sacred texts: to point you to the living Truth, transcending the muddle of mundane thought.

How could the truth be constant? Or you are claiming that the scripture has the ability to explain the truth all the way along?

 

[Peter_Plato]

Because they first accepted the causality as being absolutely true and they also accepted that there is indeed a beginning. Drop one of these facts and you see there is no need for the concept of God.

A concept cannot explain anything, it is only sufficient reality that can.

The facts do not make a concept necessary. You have it backwards.

It is only the reality of God that can sufficiently explain the facts, so the need for God as real remains.

True it is not a need for a concept, but concepts are ineffectual in any case.