How to deal with "Every religion thinks it's the right one"

[Servant19]

The fallacy here is in not accepting the historic reality that God has uniquely and specifically sent God the Son, Jesus Christ, to redeem humanity from Original Sin by His Passion and Crucifixion, and to establish His Church, the Catholic Church, to lead mankind to the fullness of truth. He prepared the Way through the Jewish prophets and fulfilled the prophecies.

The historian Eusebius in his Church history, 4.3, 1.2, tells us that writing about 123 A.D., apologist Quadratus cited those in his day who had been cured or raised from the dead by Jesus of Nazareth – prime witnesses – long after the miracles, crucifixion and death of the Son of God. No other religious founder claimed to be God and proved it – not Mohammed of Islam, not in Hinduism, not in Buddhism, not in Taoism, not in Confucianism.

Well one can also argue as fallacious that according to Judaism, “Gods hands are tied up” meaning that there will be no further Revelation after Moses.

The same is attributed to Jesus of course…and to Muhammad…

But we, as humans keep attributing “our will” onto “God’s Will”…He will continue eternally to 'Reveal" Himself through His Word to His Creation…

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[Servant19]

Well remember, we’re Catholics. So we’d say that there is good historical evidence that Jesus existed and rose from the dead, and using the Bible as a historical source (not as divinely inspired, because that would be question-begging), we see that He founded a Church, and based on His resurrection, it is reasonable to trust in His promise that He would protect His Church from error. And when we do historical examination, the Catholic Church is the best candidate for Christ’s Church, and the Catholic Church affirms the inspiration of the Bible.
So we go Christ->Church->Bible.

Yes but what about Moses? Did He not have a Revelation? These criteria do not apply to Him

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[CatholicSoxFan]

Yes but what about Moses? Did He not have a Revelation? These criteria do not apply to Him

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Well the reasoning would be Jesus->Church->Moses then (or just Jesus->Moses, because Jesus validated Moses’ revelations.)

 

[Abu]

Servant19 #162
“Gods hands are tied up” meaning that there will be no further Revelation after Moses.
The same is attributed to Jesus of course…and to Muhammad…
But we, as humans keep attributing “our will” onto “God’s Will”…He will continue eternally to 'Reveal" Himself through His Word to His Creation…

The continued fallacy is that nothing is merely “attributed” = “as coming from” Jesus the Christ, but historically proven, and His Catholic Church was historically established by the Son of God with the fullness of Divine Revelation, which is complete.

Hence the miracles for individuals, plus the very public miracle at Fatima, acknowledged by atheists.

 

[Servant19]

Well the reasoning would be Jesus->Church->Moses then (or just Jesus->Moses, because Jesus validated Moses’ revelations.)

Ok thankyou

But the truth therefore being that a Revelation does not need as a REQUIREMENT these criteria you posted to be true. Moses is evidence of this reality, and Jesus verifies it. It is reality

While Christianity proclaims Islam as false, Muhammad meets just as much criteria as Moses for His validity as the bearer of a Revelation from God. Categorical and definitive statements cannot be made as a result, I would humbly put forward

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[Servant19]

The continued fallacy is that nothing is merely “attributed” = “as coming from” Jesus the Christ, but historically proven, and His Catholic Church was historically established by the Son of God with the fullness of Divine Revelation, which is complete.

Hence the miracles for individuals, plus the very public miracle at Fatima, acknowledged by atheists.

Dear friend, while miracles are not given as much importance in Islam or the Baha’i Faith as it is in Catholicism, it does not mean that adherents of these Faiths do not also experience miracles of tremendous grandeur

You need only look at the historical texts of these religions to find numerous examples

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[Bahman]

Everyone has the opportunity to follow Christ but not all will accept His gifts. We cannot force Him onto them. If there is one flock do not assume that the whole world will ever accept the Shepherd. Some will, others will not.

…like the Apostles, we should dust off our sandals and carry on. It makes no sense to beat a dead horse. We cannot unify with the dead.

So your idea of unifying fails because people simply have different opinion about reality. I am wondering why you are still striving on a false belief.

 

[Bahman]

Bahman, just because Muslims worship the same God as we do doesn’t mean they can’t falsely attrribute revelation to Him.

How do you know that is false? Are you 100% sure of what happened to Mohammad was false? Are you concluding that he was a lier or his visions was illusion? We can assign this to anyone who claim that s/he is God of a prophet. Have you ever doubt that after your death you might be prohibited from going to Heaven for not believing Mohammad? As Jews who didn’t believe Jesus? As others who don’t believe X or Y…

 

[Bahman]

Are you a follower of Christ?

“Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word, that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou has sent me.” - John 17:20-21

“Other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one flock, one shepherd.” (John 10:16).

There is no real and lasting unity if it is not the voluntary unity of love as opposed to unity by the hateful sword.

THAT IS WHY ISLAM WILL ULTIMATELY FAIL.

I ironically find very similarity between Christianity and Islam. Islam promises that God’s enemy, namely devils, ends in the hell, as Christianity promises. So at the end they are same. Moreover, please read this: Matthew 10:34-36, Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person’s enemies will be those of his own household.

 

[TEPO]

This applies to Judaism, (the chosen people), and Islam, (the submitters to the Will of God / the Arab Nation). They were followed by Christianity and the Baha’i Faith respectively, and both these religions created all-embracing “inclusivity” for these peoples.

Why do you say Judaism and Islam were followed by Christianity and then Baha’i…? Isn’t it clear that exclusive Judaism made way for inclusive Christianity, and that Islam came next followed by Baha’i…?

Also, if Jews were the “chosen people” and Muslims are “submitters to the will of God”, then what do you say Christians and Baha’i are?

 

[TEPO]

So your idea of unifying fails because people simply have different opinion about reality. I am wondering why you are still striving on a false belief.

No, unity fails because it has preconceived ‘hidden’ notions of forced conversion. I’ve never met a person who pleads for unity who doesn’t have, in the back of his mind, a hidden desire for you to scrap your faith and join his. That includes non-religious and secular humanist ‘unity’ lovers… It’s fraud.

People are born natural influencers. It’s a human instinct. We should know this by now.

…but then, does god influence? Only a little… He’ll throw us graces through the Holy Spirit but He doesn’t speak a word. So maybe with unity were acting on our animal instincts. who knows.

 

[Bahman]

Why do you say Judaism and Islam were followed by Christianity and then Baha’i…? Isn’t it clear that exclusive Judaism made way for inclusive Christianity, and that Islam came next followed by Baha’i…?

Also, if Jews were the “chosen people” and Muslims are “submitters to the will of God”, then what do you say Christians and Baha’i are?

Because Christians didn’t follow the command of God to follow Islam and Muslim did not follow command of God to follow Baha’i.

 

[Bahman]

People are born natural influencers. It’s a human instinct. We should know this by now.

Instinct has nothing to do with following different tradition. Moreover if it is so why God blame them for what they are?

 

[Bahman]

Also, I was responding to Bahman, who said that since we believe that Muslims worship our God and since the Quran says to disrespect Jews, that we therefore have to do so:

Then you are not following God since because of the same reason you disrespect devils.

 

[TEPO]

Instinct has nothing to do with following different tradition. Moreover if it is so why God blame them for what they are?

No, the different traditions don’t have anything to do with instinct -that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying that Unity is an extention of the hidden instinct to influence… Because Unity actually means: ‘I can get you to unify with ME’ through dialogue or pressure’. It’s a hidden agenda that’s not really hidden that well. .

 

[TEPO]

Because Christians didn’t follow the command of God to follow Islam and Muslim did not follow command of God to follow Baha’i.

Why would God command Christians to follow Islam when Christianity was first? How could they follow something that doesn’t exist yet?

 

[Servant19]

Why do you say Judaism and Islam were followed by Christianity and then Baha’i…? Isn’t it clear that exclusive Judaism made way for inclusive Christianity, and that Islam came next followed by Baha’i…?

Also, if Jews were the “chosen people” and Muslims are “submitters to the will of God”, then what do you say Christians and Baha’i are?

Hi TEPO,

This is my personal understanding from studying the two religions of Judaism and Islam. I see what Judaism was to the people of Israel is what Islam is to the Arabian tribes. I see the Lord’s chastisement, sometimes violently so, towards those that swayed so far from the Truth that it wasn’t funny (burying their daughters alive etc). Once they were guided out of that waywardness, they were gradually prepared for the injection of all-embracing inclusiveness, and that’s where Christianity came in for the Jews and the Baha’i Faith came in for Islam.



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[Bahman]

Why would God command Christians to follow Islam when Christianity was first? How could they follow something that doesn’t exist yet?

Because the Christianity was not first religion, at least Judaism was a religion before it.

 

[Servant19]

Also, if Jews were the “chosen people” and Muslims are “submitters to the will of God”, then what do you say Christians and Baha’i are?

Yes, I believe they were all of those things, but more

…I can elaborate further if you wish, but it can get lengthy. Maybe a question and answer approach is easier?

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[TEPO]

Hi TEPO,

This is my personal understanding from studying the two religions of Judaism and Islam. I see what Judaism was to the people of Israel is what Islam is to the Arabian tribes. I see the Lord’s chastisement, sometimes violently so, towards those that swayed so far from the Truth that it wasn’t funny (burying their daughters alive etc). Once they were guided out of that waywardness, they were gradually prepared for the injection of all-embracing inclusiveness, and that’s where Christianity came in for the Jews and the Baha’i Faith came in for Islam.



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That’s very interesting. I can see sense in that.