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Windmill
Guest
There are many problems inherent in this statement.
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xfrodobagginsx
Guest
Moses killed an egyptian and buried him in the sand.
What paul did was just as bad as killing them with his bear hands and he knew it.
God chose paul for that reason to show that anyone can be saved, no matter how sinful.
1Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom** I am chief**. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
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xfrodobagginsx
Guest
They weren’t catholics either, they didn’t have denominations in those days. I know you would like to think that your church is that church, but protestants believe that your church has deviated from the teachings of the first churches.
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SoCalRC
Guest
Hasn’t this been asked and answered? Luke 10:25-28
It is not my place to say who is, and is not, your neighbor. But I will say that Catholic baiting is not a path to salvation that I would personally recommend.
Best Regards
We believe that most of our Holy Traditions and practices, including our obligations, help us come closer to meeting Luke 10:27. For most people, it is loving your neighbor as thyself that is truly hard. Fortunately, Jesus gave more guidance on this in Luke 10:29-37. In case you are hazy on the context, the first two who walked by believed they were taking their guidance from Holy Scripture.
It is not my place to say who is, and is not, your neighbor. But I will say that Catholic baiting is not a path to salvation that I would personally recommend.
Best Regards
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Still, St. Paul does not identify himself as a murderer.
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xfrodobagginsx
Guest
I believe in an age of accountablity. It is generally accepted that the “age of accountablity” is probably when the person is old enough to understand the gospel, but no one knows for sure.
We base it on:
2Sa 12:23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
David’s baby died and david said, I shall go to him but he shall not return to me. Of course we know that david didn’t go to hell.
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xfrodobagginsx
Guest
Getting a little warn out. Be back tonight.
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HailMary
Guest
Why is it hard to believe that God infallibly used men to write His book and God continues to use men infallibly when it comes to proclaiming the truth through the Universal Catholic Church?
So when did the Protestant churches come along? We have lineage to St. Peter on whom Christ founded the Church with the rest of the Apostles. We can trace the Catholic Church, how about yours? We can verify that the things we believe in TODAY were taught almost 2000 years ago. Your understanding of “forgivness of sins” doesn’t include confession now does it? Ours does, John 20:22-23, we have records of this being taught by the Early Church Fathers. You?
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GandalfTheWhite
Guest
So why do they the early Church Fathers sounds so Catholic and but not Protestant?
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Pixie_Dust
Guest
Nope, no denominations, just the Catholic Church. Just because Protestants believe it “deviated” doesn’t change historical fact. And once again, we’re veering off topic. Please start a new thread about this, I’d love to dig into this topic with you. Please.
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Gamera
Guest
Wait, what? I’ve read the Bible cover-to-cover and never seen the phrase “age of accountability.” Exactly where is the “age of accountability”? Chapter and verse, please. If there’s an “age of accountability” then surely God put it in the Bible for all to see, right? What age is it? 4? 7? 18? 21?
What about original sin? Every baby is conceived with original sin, right? So how is a baby forgiven for original sin? It’s not by faith, right? And according to you it isn’t by baptism, so then what cleanses a baby of original sin?
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japhy
Guest
No one knows for sure what the age of accountability is? Why would God do that to us?! Why wouldn’t He put that in Scripture for us? We risk our children’s eternal souls, then, if we delay their exposure to and acceptance of the gospel! If only we could seal them with the sign of the New Covenant shortly after their birth…
As for 2 Samuel 12:23, I had never heard that verse interpreted in such a way. I read it and see David acknowledging that nothing he can do will bring his son back from the dead – David was not aware of even the possibility of resurrection, it seems – and that “go to him” does not mean “go to him [after I die]” but physically “go to where his body lies”.
Why didn’t David think the spirit of his son might return, as Samuel’s did? I wonder if David knew of anything after death except for “Sheol”.
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Philthy
Guest
The bible is the Catholic churches “History” :yup: You trust it alright!
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Philthy
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Hi Frodo - Im reposting this because you never responded to any of it. I realize you are doing a balancing act, but I wanted to be sure that you saw it…
Just stop and think for a second: does you obedience to the 10 Commandments “deal with” your salvation? Of course it does - if you are not obeying them, can you really say that you “believe in the Son”? I can tell you what Christ says: “Whoever has my commands and observes them is the one who loves me and whoever loves me will be loved by my Father and I will love him and reveal myself to him.” Note that such language speaks of an ONGOING relationship - observes, will be loved, I will love, etc.
All of your salvation quotes are great except that you read into them that they are the completeness of salvation. You assume that since salvation is instantaneous, complete and permanent when one comes to faith if you are “saved by faith alone” and that that you cannot also be “saved” by baptism or by confession or by Holy communion or anthing else. You will ignore Christ’s admonitions to the contrary and explain them away. Christ explicitly tells us that if we dont forgive others their trespasses that neither will our Father forgive us ours (Matt6:14?). Forgiving others who sin against us is a LIFETIME commitment - its not over in an instant. “He who endures to the end will be saved” Somehow you must come to embrace ALL of what is taught regarding salvation - not simply the parts you wish to embrace. When you do that I think that you will find that we have been saved, we are being saved, and we hope to be saved. At least that is what Paul preached.
One final thing regarding your Romans 10:9-10 citation. This section or Romans is dealing primarily with the UNIVERSALITY of salvation and is not explicitly addressing how we are saved in the manner you are quoting. That is why Paul speaks of “both Jews and Greeks alike” about 12 times. He is addressing that the offer of salvation is to ALL people, not simply the Jews, Gods chosen people. It is also why, in verse 10:13 Paul also says, “Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved” If we were to take that verse at face value the way you have used Romans 10:9-10, it would immediately contradict it, wouldnt it? It might leave one wondering, do I simply need to call on the name of the Lord? But that is not what Paul is trying to say. His emphasis is not that “all you need to do is call on the lord to be saved”, but the emphasis is on WHOEVER calls…will be saved. The offer is universal - that is the point. If you read over the entire section you will see more clearly what I mean.
Just stop and think for a second: does you obedience to the 10 Commandments “deal with” your salvation? Of course it does - if you are not obeying them, can you really say that you “believe in the Son”? I can tell you what Christ says: “Whoever has my commands and observes them is the one who loves me and whoever loves me will be loved by my Father and I will love him and reveal myself to him.” Note that such language speaks of an ONGOING relationship - observes, will be loved, I will love, etc.
All of your salvation quotes are great except that you read into them that they are the completeness of salvation. You assume that since salvation is instantaneous, complete and permanent when one comes to faith if you are “saved by faith alone” and that that you cannot also be “saved” by baptism or by confession or by Holy communion or anthing else. You will ignore Christ’s admonitions to the contrary and explain them away. Christ explicitly tells us that if we dont forgive others their trespasses that neither will our Father forgive us ours (Matt6:14?). Forgiving others who sin against us is a LIFETIME commitment - its not over in an instant. “He who endures to the end will be saved” Somehow you must come to embrace ALL of what is taught regarding salvation - not simply the parts you wish to embrace. When you do that I think that you will find that we have been saved, we are being saved, and we hope to be saved. At least that is what Paul preached.
One final thing regarding your Romans 10:9-10 citation. This section or Romans is dealing primarily with the UNIVERSALITY of salvation and is not explicitly addressing how we are saved in the manner you are quoting. That is why Paul speaks of “both Jews and Greeks alike” about 12 times. He is addressing that the offer of salvation is to ALL people, not simply the Jews, Gods chosen people. It is also why, in verse 10:13 Paul also says, “Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved” If we were to take that verse at face value the way you have used Romans 10:9-10, it would immediately contradict it, wouldnt it? It might leave one wondering, do I simply need to call on the name of the Lord? But that is not what Paul is trying to say. His emphasis is not that “all you need to do is call on the lord to be saved”, but the emphasis is on WHOEVER calls…will be saved. The offer is universal - that is the point. If you read over the entire section you will see more clearly what I mean.
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Philthy
Guest
Interesting. Paul seemed to have a different take on that:
1 Cor 6:10
“Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will not inherit the kingdom of God” Gosh its so confusing - frodobaggins says one thing and Paul says another…who to believe, who to believe…
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savedsinner
Guest
euthys
Part of Speech adjective
Outline of Biblical Usage
- straight, level
- straight forward, upright, true, sincere
- straightway, immediately, forthwith
AV — straight 5, right 3, immediately 3, straightway 2, anon 1, by and by 1, forthwith 1
Matthew 3:16 (RSV)
After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove {and} lighting on Him,
Here is how the word “straightway” can be used in a way that doesn’t meant how you are interpreting it in that passage in Matthew:
1Sa 9:13 As soon as ye be come into the city, ye shall straightway find him, before he go up to the high place to eat: for the people will not eat until he come, because he doth bless the sacrifice; [and] afterwards they eat that be bidden. Now therefore get you up; for about this time ye shall find him
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Linkowski
Guest
What did in the Old Testament?
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Bigwill
Guest
I am shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you, that more people haven’t chosen other. When a baptized person dies with sanctifying grace (with no unforgiven mortal sins), he will go to Heaven. Period. Be baptized and die with no unforgiven mortal sins was not a choice, and therefore the ONLY correct choice is other.
Is trusting in Jesus good? Of course. Is trusting in the Church good? Of course. Is doing good good? Of course. Is praying to Mary good? Of course. But none of them are sufficient. Thus, the answer is other.
Is trusting in Jesus good? Of course. Is trusting in the Church good? Of course. Is doing good good? Of course. Is praying to Mary good? Of course. But none of them are sufficient. Thus, the answer is other.
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Gamera
Guest
Are you asking how a baby joined God’s people under the Old Covenant? Circumcision for boys, presentation for girls. That was what made the child a part of God’s people. Notice that babies didn’t need faith to be circumcised. Babies didn’t need faith to be admitted to the Old Covenant any more than babies now need faith to be baptized into the New Covenant. But under the false doctrine of “faith alone,” babies must go to hell when they die, since they cannot enter the New Covenant by exercising faith.
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deanarrca
Guest
Code:
This is just another point- It is not just babies. I have a mentally handicapped son. He only has the faith of a child even though he just turned 20. There are many other children much worse than him born serverly and profoundly mentally handicapped or brain damaged that will never reach an age of accountability. Just something extra to consider.Luke 18:16 16 But Jesus called for them, saying, "Permit the children to come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.
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