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xfrodobagginsx
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God is eternal. His righteousness is infinite. Sin’s consequences reach out into eternity.
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Church_Militant
Guest
No argument from the faithful Catholics here. That’s the very same thing that we are taught by the Catholic Church and believe with all our hearts.
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TobyLue
Guest
If I say the sinners prayer according to xFBx with all my heart, then I go out and fornicate, kill, rob, abuse for the rest of my life am I still saved and Jesus will welcome me with open arms into His Kingdom and say. “Well done good and faithful servant”?
Or
Once I say that prayer, there is no way in hell that I can fornicate, kill, rob, abuse? The devil will never ever again tempt me? Is that how it works?
Sounds terrific to me
Or are people that say this prayer trying to taking the easy and wide road?
Or
Once I say that prayer, there is no way in hell that I can fornicate, kill, rob, abuse? The devil will never ever again tempt me? Is that how it works?
Sounds terrific to me
Or are people that say this prayer trying to taking the easy and wide road?
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Church_Militant
Guest
Well…ya got all the things that that stuff really doesn’t mean…If I say the sinners prayer according to xFBx with all my heart, then I go out and fornicate, kill, rob, abuse for the rest of my life am I still saved and Jesus will welcome me with open arms into His Kingdom and say. “Well done good and faithful servant”?
Or
Once I say that prayer, there is no way in hell that I can fornicate, kill, rob, abuse? The devil will never ever again tempt me? Is that how it works?
Sounds terrific to me
Or are people that say this prayer trying to taking the easy and wide road?
Now, tell him how you will get to heaven.
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TobyLue
Guest
CM
Hmm, what do we do about the “consequences” ? Does the word “purgatory” ring a bell"?
Honestly, after a few years here and seeing how many anti-C’s come to this board shouting, “you must leave that pagan religion” I think that some people will do it on purpose. Reason? This way, when they get banned, they can go back to their anti-C forums and proudly boast that they were banned from CAF because they posted the truth and the Catholics do not want, and can’t stand the truth. They can then add more fuel to the fire of many deceived anti-C’s as they all shout with a great “Ahhhh–men, brother…that false religion is taking many poor unbiblical souls to hell.”
Hmm, what do we do about the “consequences” ? Does the word “purgatory” ring a bell"?
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savedsinner
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Mr. Baggins:
You seem very passionate about your faith.
I see that you always refer to scripture to back up your claims.
But How do you know that your interpretation of scripture is the correct one?
I don’t mean to see too rude, but your view on salvation seems to me to be very simplistic one. Have you read many books on things like salvation and such, ones that compare the differences between Protestants and Catholics with an open mind?
As for this subject of this thread, I might recommend a short book which compares the Catholic and Protestant positons on salvation.
Jimmy Akin’s book “The Salvation Controversy”
I realize that you would probably never buy a Catholic book, since I sense that you believe us to be in error, but this is a very concise and informative book on the subject of salvation.
And with that in mind, I will post as many of the articles as I could find which Mr. Akin has written and are included in his book. Therefore you could look up most of what is included in the book for free. And free is a very good price, especially when you are looking for the truth.
All you have to do is take the time to read them, and then see if what he writes squares with scripture.
Chapter 1
Salvation Past, Present and Future
Chapter 2
Temporal and Eternal Salvation
Chapter 3
Two other kinds of salvation
Chapter 4
Doing Penance
**Chapter 5 **
Indulgences
Chapter 6
Tiptoe through the TULIP
Chapter 7
Resisting and Cooperating with God
Chapter 8
Faith, Works and Boasting
Faith Works and Boasting (another article)
Chapter 9
Justification and Ecumenism
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Church_Militant
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and the Catholics do not want, and can’t stand the truth. They can then add more fuel to the fire of many deceived anti-C’s as they all shout with a great "Ahhhh–men, brother…that false religion is taking many poor unbiblical souls to hell."Well, I’m sure there are some, but what can ya do?
Ya answer the ones who are reasonable and rational and pray for the rest, right?
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xfrodobagginsx
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My question to everyone here is…Do you KNOW Jesus? I am not asking if you know ABOUT Him. I am asking you if you KNOW Him? I do, because I am saved by His perfect, complete work on the cross to pay for my sins. I have accepted His free gift of salvation. AGAIN I ask…How many here actually KNOW Jesus?If I say the sinners prayer according to xFBx with all my heart, then I go out and fornicate, kill, rob, abuse for the rest of my life am I still saved and Jesus will welcome me with open arms into His Kingdom and say. “Well done good and faithful servant”?
**What will happen is that God will give you a new nature where you will desire to do His will. You will genuinely desire to do God’s will. Will you still sin? Yes, as the bible says to christians:
1Jo 1:8 ¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
But it also says this to Christians:
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.**
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Once I say that prayer, there is no way in hell that I can fornicate, kill, rob, abuse? The devil will never ever again tempt me? Is that how it works?
Wrong. The devil will tempt you harder now because he will know that he has lost you. He wants to destroy the testimony of a Christian that the Christian may be accused and not a good witness for Christ.
Sounds terrific to me
That’s because you don’t understand how it really is.
Or are people that say this prayer trying to taking the easy and wide road?
We are just doing it God’s way. You should do it His way to.
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Pixie_Dust
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Church_Militant
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savedsinner
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I am not sure what you mean by “know him”.
You say that you are saved by His perfect, compete work on the cross and you accepted His free gift of salvation.
But how does that make you “know him”
I would say that you get to know someone by spending time with them.
I spend time with Jesus in prayer, in reading scripture, at Mass and spending time with him during my two hours a week of adoration before the Blessed Sacrament.
I recognize him in others, especially the poor and oppressed. I trust my life with him. I have made him my Lord and Savior, by submitting to his will in my life.
But I don’t know if that is what you are talking about because I didn’t make an altar call, I didn’t say the sinners prayer.
So if that is what you mean by knowing Jesus, then I guess I don’t know him in the same way you do.
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Gamera
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Yes of course we know Jesus. We have built our lives on Jesus.
We know Jesus so well that we receive Him into our very body each time He comes to us in the Eucharist – you can’t get more personal than that.
We know Jesus so well that we pour our hearts out to Him in daily prayer.
We know Jesus so well that we order everything else in our lives around Him – because “knowing” Jesus isn’t enough, we must LOVE Jesus, and we LOVE Jesus by obeying Jesus.
We love Jesus SO much that we try to get to know His beloved Mother as best we can.
These are all basic things done by every Catholic who practices his or her faith. My question is, why on earth would you ask this question? Are you under the impression that a person can be a good Catholic without putting Jesus first? We can’t. That is the whole point of the Catholic faith.
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clmowry
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Nope. Doesn’t happen.
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xfrodobagginsx
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How can you know Him and not know that to know Him IS to love Him? I don’t about catholic. I don’t need catholic. I need Jesus Christ. I don’t put my faith in the catholic church, I put it in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. I feel His presence with me in my life and He leads me. He has never led me to a catholic church by the way. I don’t need to get to know Jesus’s mother. I need to know Jesus. His mother was a good woman, although she was a sinner like you and I, but I don’t pray to her. There is only one person who can get you to God and that’s Jesus. Not mary, not the saints, not an idol or statue, not some priest, not some pope, just Jesus.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
The Baltimore Catechism states,
God created me so I can seek him, know him, love him, and serve him, and be with him for all eternity.
I don’t know why you try separate the Church and Jesus Christ. Do you not know that the Jesus is the Head of the Church. A headless Church would not do much by itself.
In the Catholic Church, I become BORN AGAIN through baptism (Yes BaptismPeters says so. See “baptism, which now saves you”, 1 Peter 3:21). In the Catholic Church, I become annointed with oil through Confirmation, and finally I received Jesus Christ Himself, truly present in the Eucharist.
You say you feel his presence. Good for you. I went to Mass today, I heard the Word of God preached in the Gospel, and I received Jesus Christ unto my mouth. Just as Jesus Christ commanded, “For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. 57 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him” (John 6:56-57). I tell you brother, it really does get personal with me and Jesus in the Blessed Eucharist. He abideth in me, and I in Him. Woah. I received Jesus Christ in His Church, the Catholic Church.
The Catholic Church affirms that too.
The Catechism states,
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Gamera
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Satan knows Him. Satan doesn’t love Him. You’re confusing the Bible with 1950’s pop music lyrics.
Loving Jesus means obeying, not “knowing.” “Jesus answered him, ‘If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me does not keep my words, and the word which you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me.’” John14:23-24.
Suppose somebody said these things:
“I don’t need the Bible to get to heaven, I just need Jesus.”
“I don’t put my faith in St Paul’s letters to the Corinthians. I put my faith in Jesus.”
“I don’t need Matthew, Mark, Luke or John to show me Jesus. All I need is Jesus.”
Your remarks sound just like that to Catholics. They don’t make any sense to us. Jesus relates to us THROUGH the BIble and THROUGH the Church and THROUGH the saints. We love those things BECAUSE of Jesus, not “instead of” Jesus.
“Christ Jesus [is] the one mediator between God and men,” Catechism of the Catholic Church 1544.
A-MEN!!!
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Holly3278
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I’ve already prayed that prayer before because I used to be a Protestant. Now I am a Catholic.
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runandsew
Guest
Imagine if the beloved disciple thought that way…
John 19:26-…
When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!”
Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” …
…And then the disciple said to Jesus “Hey what about your brothers, can’t they take care of her. No disrespect Jesus, but I only want you alone.” And then the disciple whispered to Jesus, " Jesus, I don’t mean to sound rude, but your mother is a sinner, and I am not sure that I want her in my home. I only want a relationship with you, afterall, she can’t get me to heaven."
No Mr. Baggins, I do think that to love Jesus is to also love his mother, and to take her into our homes, just like John did.
I can’t even comprehend saying something like that, it is probably pretty insulting to Jesus. He was suffering of the cross, do you know how much effort and pain it was to speak on the cross when he is suffocating, and the last requests he makes, the last words he says here on earth is to take care of his mother.
John represents the church in this passage, and we are the church, and we are to take his mother into our homes, into our lifes.
It is my firm belief that if one is to truly love Jesus, he is to also love his mother.
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Milliardo
Guest
It is ironic that frodo here tries to make out that his belief is Biblical when he asks people to pray something that is nowhere in the Bible. Ironic as well that this prayer has become sort of a tradition for Evangelicals–an irony when one sees how much frodo detests tradition.
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Gamera
Guest
“Need” is a word which fascinates me. “Need” pops up all the time when fundamentalists talk about religion.
I don’t eat only the food I “need” to stay alive. I eat more than the bare minimum. I eat food until I am full.
I don’t earn just the minimum amount of money I “need” to survive on. I earn more, so that I can live comfortably.
I don’t sleep just the bare minumum that I “need” to keep my brain functioning the next day. I sleep a full night’s sleep.
I don’t set my furnace to the minumum temperature that I “need” to keep myself alive in winter. I turn the furnace up to a comfortable warmth.
So why should I restrict my spiritual life to the bare minimum that I “need”? Why should I chuck out the wealth of spiritual treasures built up over the past 2000 years because I don’t “need” them?
Do you eat more food than you “need” to live? Do you drink more water than you “need” to live? Do you turn your furnace up beyond the bare minimum you “need” to avoid frostbite? Then why limit your spiritual food to the bare minumum you “need” to get to heaven?
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