F
fix
Guest
Pious Redeemer:
You have no authority to judge their souls, but you may judge their behaviors and actions.
- Status
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Brad
Guest
Pious Redeemer:
You do not have the ability to determine the state of their soul, correct. But, as a Christian, you are obliged, in charity, to point out that they are engaging in sin and that sin works to seperate ourselves from God.
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FranL
Guest
Pious Redeemer:
or this: “Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath of God is coming.” - Colossians 3:5,6
or this: “Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” - Galatians 5:19,21
or this: "But fornication and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is fitting among saints. Let there be no filthiness, nor silly talk, nor levity, which are not fitting; but instead let there be thanksgiving. Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. - Ephesians 5:3,5
A man called in to a Catholic Q&A talk show that we all know and with a tone of defiance in his voice asked them to show that the Bible denounces extra-marital sex. After they pointed out some of the above quotes he still didn’t get it. It turned out that he didn’t know what the word “fornication” meant. (Another “outcome” of our public school system no doubt.) Maybe your friends just don’t know either?
God bless,
No…but you might share this with them: “But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.” - Revelation 21:8
or this: “Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath of God is coming.” - Colossians 3:5,6
or this: “Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” - Galatians 5:19,21
or this: "But fornication and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is fitting among saints. Let there be no filthiness, nor silly talk, nor levity, which are not fitting; but instead let there be thanksgiving. Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. - Ephesians 5:3,5
A man called in to a Catholic Q&A talk show that we all know and with a tone of defiance in his voice asked them to show that the Bible denounces extra-marital sex. After they pointed out some of the above quotes he still didn’t get it. It turned out that he didn’t know what the word “fornication” meant. (Another “outcome” of our public school system no doubt.) Maybe your friends just don’t know either?
God bless,
- FranL:thumbsup:
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Pious_Redeemer
Guest
Well, thanks for your kind advice, Franl. I’ll point it out to them, gently of course. They are all baptised Catholics - Catholicism is the orthodox religion in Belgium.
I don’t know this talk show you spoke about. Care to tell me what it is exactly? I guess we can’t see it here in Belgium.
But the situation in Belgium is quite grave, actually. I posted this before but got no reply from you people. I’d really like to know your opinion on this:
Well, the people who attend the Mass every sunday are not many, and quite old too. Sooner or later, all of them will leave time and step into the Lords eternity, and what will happen then? Youngsters (except for myself) aren’t interested in faith anymore.
Granted, on Church holidays like Christmas and Easter, our church is overcrowded. But I think this is because it’s tradition to go to Mass during these days. And the following sunday, the churches are empty again.
On top of that, I believe last year we had 7 new Callings for the Priesthood. Only seven candidates to become a priest! Our priest f.e. is responsable now for 3 villages because there were no priests left to replace the former ones after they had passed away in those 2 villages.
I guess this is a common situation in many European countries. I am really, REALLY surprised that Americans have so much faith!
I don’t know this talk show you spoke about. Care to tell me what it is exactly? I guess we can’t see it here in Belgium.
But the situation in Belgium is quite grave, actually. I posted this before but got no reply from you people. I’d really like to know your opinion on this:
Well, the people who attend the Mass every sunday are not many, and quite old too. Sooner or later, all of them will leave time and step into the Lords eternity, and what will happen then? Youngsters (except for myself) aren’t interested in faith anymore.
Granted, on Church holidays like Christmas and Easter, our church is overcrowded. But I think this is because it’s tradition to go to Mass during these days. And the following sunday, the churches are empty again.
On top of that, I believe last year we had 7 new Callings for the Priesthood. Only seven candidates to become a priest! Our priest f.e. is responsable now for 3 villages because there were no priests left to replace the former ones after they had passed away in those 2 villages.
I guess this is a common situation in many European countries. I am really, REALLY surprised that Americans have so much faith!
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chaple
Guest
I think getting BOYS to remain abstinent is at least as big a challenge. It takes two, you know. :twocents:
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FranL
Guest
The name of the Catholic Q&A talk show is “Catholic Answers Live” and you can listen to it over the web on this web site.
As for your low and aging mass attendance question, well…here’s my take on it:
I drive thirty miles to get to a church where we used to have a couple of real fire ball priests who gave bold homilies on the living Gosple and applied it to real life. That is they addressed issues that were in the headlines and the things that trouble us all in real life…like the theme of this thread.
They taught straight Church doctrine and while they were good, loving men, they pulled no punches and had no problem calling a spade a spade as the saying goes.
The church was always packed and many families, young and old, came from many more miles away than I had to drive.
This church is a Dominican Abbey and the Dominican povincial eventually rotated these men out to other parishes out of state.
Now we have priests that give the same type of generic homilies that are given at the dozen or so parishes I pass on the way to church each Sunday.
The attendance has dropped off drastically. The Sunday collection is now so low that there is even talk of closing the parish because it can’t meet its bills.
I think people in general and young people in particular are starved for the Truth of the Gosple. They want to hear it, even the “hard sayings”. Maybe especially the “hard sayings”.
And I don’t know if you watch EWTN but they have prospered by delivering the straight, orthodox teachings of Jesus and the Catholic Church.
So, I think our churches will founder until we start producing priests with the backbone to stand up and preach the Truth, the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth of our Lord, Jesus Christ and the Catholic faith He has given us.
God bless,
As for your low and aging mass attendance question, well…here’s my take on it:
I drive thirty miles to get to a church where we used to have a couple of real fire ball priests who gave bold homilies on the living Gosple and applied it to real life. That is they addressed issues that were in the headlines and the things that trouble us all in real life…like the theme of this thread.
They taught straight Church doctrine and while they were good, loving men, they pulled no punches and had no problem calling a spade a spade as the saying goes.
The church was always packed and many families, young and old, came from many more miles away than I had to drive.
This church is a Dominican Abbey and the Dominican povincial eventually rotated these men out to other parishes out of state.
Now we have priests that give the same type of generic homilies that are given at the dozen or so parishes I pass on the way to church each Sunday.
The attendance has dropped off drastically. The Sunday collection is now so low that there is even talk of closing the parish because it can’t meet its bills.
I think people in general and young people in particular are starved for the Truth of the Gosple. They want to hear it, even the “hard sayings”. Maybe especially the “hard sayings”.
And I don’t know if you watch EWTN but they have prospered by delivering the straight, orthodox teachings of Jesus and the Catholic Church.
So, I think our churches will founder until we start producing priests with the backbone to stand up and preach the Truth, the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth of our Lord, Jesus Christ and the Catholic faith He has given us.
God bless,
- FranL:thumbsup:
K
km112482
Guest
My sister got pregnant right out of higschool. Her son is now four years old and her and his father have been married for two years now. Her mother in law treats her first child as though he is a mistake. For his first birthday he got no present from her. For his next birthday she gave him only a toothbrush yet buys all the other children all kinds of presents. I think she got better about it, but at one time it was like she resented him for not being born while his mother and father were married. For my sister’s wedding she said on the video well I guess yall finally got what yall wanted cause I dont think she really agreed with them getting married at all.
The reason I bring this up is because I do not think it is anyone’s place to judge people that this has happened too especially the hypocrits who also had sex before they got married, but it just so happen that they did not get pregnant. Only God can be the judge of the sins we commit or mistakes we make, but if someone is truely sorry and goes to confession he will forgive them. I look at it this way at least these girls are choosing for the babies to have life and not just having an abortion so that the burden is lifted off of them.
Bottom line we all make mistakes and God knows our heart and when we are truely sorry and it isnt for us to judge. Believe me there is alot of times where I have to catch myself cause I am quick to judge others. That is something I need to work on, but I always think about what would you do if you were in that situation would you want someone to be judging you and of course I wouldnt so I shouldnt be judgeing them.
GOD BLESS, KERRI
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km112482
Guest
Oh I also wanted to share a story about when my sister got married. The priest at our parish at the time would not allow their then 2 year old son to participate in any part of the wedding he had to stay in pew could not be a ring barrier or anything because the priest said he was not born when they were married therefor he did not approve of them having him in the wedding. That always bothered me because it is not his fault that his mother and father had him out of wedlock. I just dont understand why the priest acted in that way does anyone know if that is a rule of some sort cause our priest now surely has never done something so horrible.
Kerri
Kerri
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rayne89
Guest
I don’t know if I should say this but I found sadlisa on another Catholic forum (while this one was down) posting the exact same story but instead she said she after posting several times that she went and had an abortion. I think who ever this girl is she’s just some bored kid on the net taking us all for a ride.well mabye you can treat me nicely bc i have convinsed my mother to let me have my baby!
soon i will be an unwed mother
thanx for helpng me out b4 everyone
i wuld have put this in my other thread but this msg board delted it
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deb1
Guest
I haven’t read through all the posts but it is impossible to know the circumstance surronding an unwed teenagers pregnancy. Was she raped? Did she come from an abusive home and hungry for love reached out to the first jerk that showed her attention? Did an older man seduce and take advantage of her? Is she desperately lonely and empty inside?
I vote to give her sympathy and possibly prayers. This isn’t to say that we have to agree with her past mistakes. And if an older woman get the opportunity to mentor the young woman then it might be possible to help the girl value herself more-if that is the problem. Or even, if you become close to the girl to help her understand that past mistakes don’t necessarily mean that you have to repeat those same mistakes.
Amazingly enough there are some young women who have never seen a normal, happy home. I was one of those young women and I am thankful to God that an older couple started paying me attention and taking me to church.
I vote to give her sympathy and possibly prayers. This isn’t to say that we have to agree with her past mistakes. And if an older woman get the opportunity to mentor the young woman then it might be possible to help the girl value herself more-if that is the problem. Or even, if you become close to the girl to help her understand that past mistakes don’t necessarily mean that you have to repeat those same mistakes.
Amazingly enough there are some young women who have never seen a normal, happy home. I was one of those young women and I am thankful to God that an older couple started paying me attention and taking me to church.
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
Agree. Maybe even a bigger challenge since the whole thing, from the act itself right on through to childbirth, is so, well, “external” to boys compared to girls. At least girls know they cannot escape the more obvious consequences as easily – unless of course they’ve been listening to PP and NOW.I think getting BOYS to remain abstinent is at least as big a challenge. It takes two, you know. :twocents:
Alan
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Katie1723
Guest
Or maybe she just wanted to have sex. That seems to be a reason I hear from a lot of girls I take care of. And many are from “nice” homes…in “nice” neighborhoods…and go to “nice” schools.
Bottom line is the children didn’t ask to be here. We need to remember that.
~ Kathy ~
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deb1
Guest
I would agree. There are many kids, just like adults, who engage in immoral behavior for selfish reasons but we can’t tell from looking at a pregnant teenager or an unmarried mom what her reasons for sex are. As far as Nice neighborhoods, homes and schools…there are many so called ‘nice’ families that hide abuse. My point is that we don’t know, so we have to give each person the benifit of the doubt and try to act charitable toward them. I, too, feel sorry for the babies.
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Katie1723
Guest
Ditto Deb…well put!…My point is that we don’t know, so we have to give each person the benifit of the doubt and try to act charitable toward them. I, too, feel sorry for the babies.
~ Kathy ~
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Mom_of_one
Guest
You want to hear a good story about a judgemental person? I say “good” with all sarcasm, because I guarantee that it will make you mad. This happened to me. My dad suffers from depression. A few years ago, it became very bad. He was in bed all the time, eating very little, talking about suicide. I was working with another family member to try and get my dad more help. 2 of my uncles went with my dad to see his psychiatrist. One of my uncles sat there and blamed my dad’s depression on me-an unwed mother- and my sister, who was living with her boyfriend. Never mind that my dad had been depressed for years due to abuse that occured when he was a child and that got much worse after my dad was shot with his own gun and his partner was killed(with my dad’s gun) while they were on duty transporting prisioners. Never mind that this same uncle had a nervous breakdown quite a few years ago, due to the childhood abuse. Never mind all that-it was my fault and my sister’s fault. My mother asked my uncle if I should have had an abortion. I don’t know what he replied to that, but I’m sure he would have said no, because he is a “born-again” and pro-life.
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
Momofone:
BTW, I have never been an unwed mother, but I’m not admitting to whether I helped to create any.
Alan
As I’ve said before, there are people who just can’t wait to punish women for their sexual “sins,” hoping I suppose that Jesus has finally turned His back to allow us all to cast stones. It is almost uncanny. Even many good, orthodox Catholics on this board seem to share the attitude that if a girl comes up pregnant we are “obligated” to punish her. Clearly that is the worst evil in the universe.
BTW, I have never been an unwed mother, but I’m not admitting to whether I helped to create any.
Alan
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marty1818
Guest
With respect and dignity.
matt
matt
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twistpenguin
Guest
I once volunteered at a Florence Crittendon Home, which is a shelter for unwed teenage mothers. It was an eye-opening experience! The girls were only a couple years younger than I was, but our lives were unbelievably DIFFERENT. I worry about my classes and work, but these girls have to deal with their families (their families often sent them to the Home so they wouldnt be bothered by their daughter, or they couldn’t afford to feed them), they have to worry about child support and legal bills, and they’re taking care of a baby, even they’re only “babies” themselves.
The girls were so sweet and full of love…personally I think they were simply victims of bad parenting and bad choices that they made at such a young age. Most of the girls’ mothers were unwed teenagers, so it was the only kind of mother they knew how to be. One girl told me that she was named “Regina” because that was the name of the strip club that her mother’s boyfriend was when she was born!
We should treat everyone with respect and dignity, and hopefully by “leading by example” we can make the world a little bit better!
The girls were so sweet and full of love…personally I think they were simply victims of bad parenting and bad choices that they made at such a young age. Most of the girls’ mothers were unwed teenagers, so it was the only kind of mother they knew how to be. One girl told me that she was named “Regina” because that was the name of the strip club that her mother’s boyfriend was when she was born!
We should treat everyone with respect and dignity, and hopefully by “leading by example” we can make the world a little bit better!
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777
Guest
Don’t forget minds and souls.
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iserve
Guest
As someone who has been a family worker for 26 years, I can only say that I treat young mothers with sympathy for their predicament, but *absolutely expect *them to grow up into the position that they have put themselves, and by default, their children, into. Whatever their reasons for having sex is not important, since there are no good reasons for taking such a chance when you are not ready for the resposibility that may come with it. Unwed young mothers deny their children one of the basic, essential criteria for life: a committed, loving example by which to live. Instead, by the very essence of what the situation is, they show their children how to act impulsively, irresponsibly and without care for the future. Since many of these young ladies cannot see this, and society treats them indifferently, the situation repeats itself at an alarming rate- and the ignorance, poverty and suffering of the children it produces continues. I worked to teach parenting skills to at least 500 families in the course of my career, and can honestly say that only blunt, clear direction works, and just might save this young woman and her child from becoming a statistic. There is nothing wrong with being wrong, you can act to correct it, but only if you are aware that it is wrong in the first place. Society, in embracing these women without trying to bring them to right, is participating in the lie.
- Status