L
Lisa4Catholics
Guest
Me too
That is powerful and to the point and not seething with anger at the content of her post:clapping: I was mad and knew I shouldn’t respond right then.Rayne you rock:clapping: :bowdown2:
- Status
That is powerful and to the point and not seething with anger at the content of her post:clapping: I was mad and knew I shouldn’t respond right then.Rayne you rock:clapping: :bowdown2:
J
jjwilkman
Guest
i respond to this, not having read the rest on the thread. what is this? are we on the same planet. where are you from?
i will read as far as i can.
R
rayne89
Guest
Ok don’t ya’ll give me a big head.
Feel free to plagerize my repsonse, it public domain.Thanks for the compliments.
J
jjwilkman
Guest
JimG, you have wisdom, more than the whole government of the us (intentionally not capitalized). it goes back to roe vs wade!!!. has any one noticed that this country’s troubles date almost exactly to that precise decision?? “let’s grind up more babies to
make more medicine to save ourselves”
D
deb1
Guest
Perhaps the best reply is to simply ignore her. I know that this is hard, but I know of no other way to be charitable to such a childish woman. She didn’t really ask you anything that you have to answer. Couldn’t you just go to the next post? I think your silence and refusal to allow yourself to be embroiled with such a petty person will say more for Christianity then any comeback could.
I am sorry that you had such a nasty post. I have four children, myself and would love a fifth. The fact that you are taking care of your nephew is admirable.
I am sorry that you had such a nasty post. I have four children, myself and would love a fifth. The fact that you are taking care of your nephew is admirable.
S
StratusRose
Guest
The names like “darling” and “honey” is what irritated me the most! I can’t stand it when someone calls me those names. As for charity…wow, that’s going to be a tough one. Ask her what she values most…cars, houses, clothes, etc and then ask her what she can take with her to heaven. The only thing we will have up there that we have down here are our loved ones. I think Rayne’s response is warrented though, that was a good one.
T
Tantum_ergo
Guest
Wow.
This would be very hard to respond to with charity, indeed. The patronizing, “intellectual” tone dripping with contempt of the “breeder”, laced with the arrogance of the perceived “elite” and oh-so-self-righteously aflame with her “stewardship”, her “dignity”, her concern for the “earth”. . .
Let me see.
My fellow woman:
We obviously differ deeply in our ideas of what is important in our lives. Motherhood is not just a “side line” for me, something that I do–with a very carefully planned “one or two” children whom I can exhibit as trophies–in my spare time, totally apart from my “real job” or career which marks me as being not just any old “female” but the superior modern female who is “just like a man”.
Far from not considering reality in life, I consider it more clearly than you. I understand that life is not something which can be planned for or “controlled”. The woman who so carefully waits until she can “afford” a child only to find that she is “downsized” a few years later. . .will be in exactly the same position, if not worse, that she despised her neighbor down the street who went ahead and had a child despite not having the downpayment ready for the first year of that child’s college, a paid-for house, a new car, etc., but instead chose to live more simply, put some money in a savings account and accumulate funds gradually, have a cheaper car, etc. And have you seen the divorce rate lately? Surprisingly enough, it appears to be just as high for the oh-so-careful, pre-nup signing, “put off the child until we’re financially secure” couples than it is for the ones with more than two children.
I am sorry that you feel the need to label and to patronize women who are, by and large, not only your mental but also your emotional equals, if not betters. “Trash”? Not even human beings, but “trash”? And you make this opinion of yours into a judgment call on another woman solely because of the number of children she has? How would you feel if a person called you “trash” based on some opinion she had of you and your family?
Our Pope does not “make” the rules, he enforces them and endorses them, just as any good leader does. Some of his followers may not listen but that doesn’t mean that he will “change the rules” for them. I do wish that you would take the time to read something about the Catholic Church–there is a fine online version of the Catechism of the Catholic Church here at christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/ccc.html which would help you to understand the beauty and indeed the dignity of church teachings; also you might read our late great John Paul II’s encyclical on the Dignity of Women, here: ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2MULIE.HTM.
May the blessings of Almighty God be with you and your family.
This would be very hard to respond to with charity, indeed. The patronizing, “intellectual” tone dripping with contempt of the “breeder”, laced with the arrogance of the perceived “elite” and oh-so-self-righteously aflame with her “stewardship”, her “dignity”, her concern for the “earth”. . .
Let me see.
My fellow woman:
We obviously differ deeply in our ideas of what is important in our lives. Motherhood is not just a “side line” for me, something that I do–with a very carefully planned “one or two” children whom I can exhibit as trophies–in my spare time, totally apart from my “real job” or career which marks me as being not just any old “female” but the superior modern female who is “just like a man”.
Far from not considering reality in life, I consider it more clearly than you. I understand that life is not something which can be planned for or “controlled”. The woman who so carefully waits until she can “afford” a child only to find that she is “downsized” a few years later. . .will be in exactly the same position, if not worse, that she despised her neighbor down the street who went ahead and had a child despite not having the downpayment ready for the first year of that child’s college, a paid-for house, a new car, etc., but instead chose to live more simply, put some money in a savings account and accumulate funds gradually, have a cheaper car, etc. And have you seen the divorce rate lately? Surprisingly enough, it appears to be just as high for the oh-so-careful, pre-nup signing, “put off the child until we’re financially secure” couples than it is for the ones with more than two children.
I am sorry that you feel the need to label and to patronize women who are, by and large, not only your mental but also your emotional equals, if not betters. “Trash”? Not even human beings, but “trash”? And you make this opinion of yours into a judgment call on another woman solely because of the number of children she has? How would you feel if a person called you “trash” based on some opinion she had of you and your family?
Our Pope does not “make” the rules, he enforces them and endorses them, just as any good leader does. Some of his followers may not listen but that doesn’t mean that he will “change the rules” for them. I do wish that you would take the time to read something about the Catholic Church–there is a fine online version of the Catechism of the Catholic Church here at christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/ccc.html which would help you to understand the beauty and indeed the dignity of church teachings; also you might read our late great John Paul II’s encyclical on the Dignity of Women, here: ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2MULIE.HTM.
May the blessings of Almighty God be with you and your family.
L
Lisa4Catholics
Guest
Tantum you and Rayne both had excellent responses:clapping: If I have your permission as well I may use both.God Bless
C
CatholicPoet
Guest
Responding with charity should not be too difficult if you approach it from the viewpoint that the woman who wrote that is probably not a bad person. She may be misguided; she may be selfish; she may be patronizing, but she’s probably not, at the root of it, a bad person.
While I like what some of the other posters have suggested, I think I would stay away from words like “ridiculous” or saying that she has a narrow view. It’s not that I’m disagreeing with those statements, but you’re not likely to convince her of either one. If you go there in the debate, it is likely to turn into nothing more than name calling and one-upsmanship and the real point – the joy of children – will be lost.
Unfortunately, I think this person’s view of motherhood is probably far more popular than you might want to imagine. I know of a lot of people who hold to it. They aren’t bad folks, they’ve just been sold a bill of goods. The message they’ve gotten all of their lives is one of self-gratification, instant gratification and “You’re not the boss of me!”
Look past her hurtful words and concentrate on the fundamental of the issue. Meet her cruel words with kindness and understanding. You might convinve her; you might not. Well, you probably won’t.
But remember, other people will read your response, too. Even if she goes away mad, if you’re responses are good, generous and convincing, you might reach other people watching from the sidelines.
Good luck! I have faith in you to post an excellent reply to her arguements.
While I like what some of the other posters have suggested, I think I would stay away from words like “ridiculous” or saying that she has a narrow view. It’s not that I’m disagreeing with those statements, but you’re not likely to convince her of either one. If you go there in the debate, it is likely to turn into nothing more than name calling and one-upsmanship and the real point – the joy of children – will be lost.
Unfortunately, I think this person’s view of motherhood is probably far more popular than you might want to imagine. I know of a lot of people who hold to it. They aren’t bad folks, they’ve just been sold a bill of goods. The message they’ve gotten all of their lives is one of self-gratification, instant gratification and “You’re not the boss of me!”
Look past her hurtful words and concentrate on the fundamental of the issue. Meet her cruel words with kindness and understanding. You might convinve her; you might not. Well, you probably won’t.
But remember, other people will read your response, too. Even if she goes away mad, if you’re responses are good, generous and convincing, you might reach other people watching from the sidelines.
Good luck! I have faith in you to post an excellent reply to her arguements.
L
Lisa4Catholics
Guest
Update
I reponded with Rayne and Tantums reply:nope: Sadly this is the response
Wowah, Lisa! Slow down! Your DEFENSE is quite hefty, yet still short on ARGUMENTS to support your jumbo-family vision.
If EVERY American couple were to pop-out 4 children, we’d be in DEEP TROUBLE. In other words, following YOUR example is NOT a good idea. So YOUR example is NOT GOOD. Limiting your family size to 1 or 2 children is more sensible, thus a BETTER idea.
Your major “beef” is that people have abortions. I hope you’re not saying that everyone should have MORE children than they are having. Please clarify that one.
Having 4 or more children renders you “trash”, not in the sense of garbage, but in the sense of IRRESPONSIBLE (trailer park) trash. I think everyone EXCEPT you understood the “trash” reference as NOT meaning garbage, but low class. If a woman is “trash”, she’s not grabage, but of a low class that few would want to associate with. Is this your TWISTED mentality showing again?
Having large families is a thing of past generations. Somewhere we need to slow down and accept the limitations. Even a family with good income can not afford many children. Think of the mothers who have to give birth. Being a “bunny” is no fun, no matter how secure you are. Catch that “Super Nanny” show and see how middle class people “cope” with their 3 or 4 or 5 children. It’s no picnic and it’s NOT wise socially.
Lisa, please accept that most women are NOT as extreme and as fanatic as you. Allow them to direct their own lives. You have already shown that intellect is not a superior strength of yours. You seem to always want to make other people’s decisions, and it’s just not your place to do so. You may decide for yourself, and please allow othrs the same decision making. Anyone looking for a dictatorial BOSS will pass you by immediately, simple becuase you lack the qualities and plausibility one seeks in a leader.
I reponded with Rayne and Tantums reply:nope: Sadly this is the responseWowah, Lisa! Slow down! Your DEFENSE is quite hefty, yet still short on ARGUMENTS to support your jumbo-family vision.
If EVERY American couple were to pop-out 4 children, we’d be in DEEP TROUBLE. In other words, following YOUR example is NOT a good idea. So YOUR example is NOT GOOD. Limiting your family size to 1 or 2 children is more sensible, thus a BETTER idea.
Your major “beef” is that people have abortions. I hope you’re not saying that everyone should have MORE children than they are having. Please clarify that one.
Having 4 or more children renders you “trash”, not in the sense of garbage, but in the sense of IRRESPONSIBLE (trailer park) trash. I think everyone EXCEPT you understood the “trash” reference as NOT meaning garbage, but low class. If a woman is “trash”, she’s not grabage, but of a low class that few would want to associate with. Is this your TWISTED mentality showing again?
Having large families is a thing of past generations. Somewhere we need to slow down and accept the limitations. Even a family with good income can not afford many children. Think of the mothers who have to give birth. Being a “bunny” is no fun, no matter how secure you are. Catch that “Super Nanny” show and see how middle class people “cope” with their 3 or 4 or 5 children. It’s no picnic and it’s NOT wise socially.
Lisa, please accept that most women are NOT as extreme and as fanatic as you. Allow them to direct their own lives. You have already shown that intellect is not a superior strength of yours. You seem to always want to make other people’s decisions, and it’s just not your place to do so. You may decide for yourself, and please allow othrs the same decision making. Anyone looking for a dictatorial BOSS will pass you by immediately, simple becuase you lack the qualities and plausibility one seeks in a leader.
G
gardenswithkids
Guest
Does this person consider herself “pro-choice”? She certainly seems judgemental of those who make different choices than she does. Oh, the irony of those who would deny the choice of a large family by forcing birth control through cultural pressure! I would suggest you gently point out the hypocrisy of her criticism your “choice”.
K
KittyKat
Guest
But I’m the trailer trash bunny rabbit! Hee Hee.
Okay maybe not quite as I won’t even have one child until August. And I haven’t lived in a trailer since we were building a house when I was little, but being 22 and married with a child on the way sure must not say anything “good” about me.
And to the Super Nanny reference, there are people with one or two children that have problems controlling them, and there are families with 6 or 7 that have no problems.
Although I would pray for her. It sounds like the hormones in her pill are reacting badly with her. Either that or she is just a highly opinionated women that would be really hard to live with.
Kat
Okay maybe not quite as I won’t even have one child until August. And I haven’t lived in a trailer since we were building a house when I was little, but being 22 and married with a child on the way sure must not say anything “good” about me.
And to the Super Nanny reference, there are people with one or two children that have problems controlling them, and there are families with 6 or 7 that have no problems.
Although I would pray for her. It sounds like the hormones in her pill are reacting badly with her. Either that or she is just a highly opinionated women that would be really hard to live with.
Kat
S
StratusRose
Guest
You know what Lisa, it sounds like there is no getting through to this woman. She says you have no evidence to back yourself up when you did, and she keeps resorting to calling you names.
Say something like this, “I can see that an attempt for a civil debate is not going to happen. I will not stand for rude remarks about the way I choose to live my life, and I will most of all not tolerate name calling. My 4 children and my nephew will pray the rosary tonight especially for you and your family. Our Catholic faith calls us to hate the sin, but love the sinner. It is my Christian duty to pray for you and let the grace of God calm and soften your heart so that you may be accepting and more understanding of people who live their lives according to their religious and spiritual beliefs, and not by social norms. I hope someday that you will find peace and joy with our Lord. He seeks you and when you’re ready he will rejoice that you have finally let him into your life. Peace be with you, Lisa”
Say something like this, “I can see that an attempt for a civil debate is not going to happen. I will not stand for rude remarks about the way I choose to live my life, and I will most of all not tolerate name calling. My 4 children and my nephew will pray the rosary tonight especially for you and your family. Our Catholic faith calls us to hate the sin, but love the sinner. It is my Christian duty to pray for you and let the grace of God calm and soften your heart so that you may be accepting and more understanding of people who live their lives according to their religious and spiritual beliefs, and not by social norms. I hope someday that you will find peace and joy with our Lord. He seeks you and when you’re ready he will rejoice that you have finally let him into your life. Peace be with you, Lisa”
M
mercygate
Guest
Trash “not in the sense of garbage?” Trailer park? Low class that few would want to associate with? Twisted mentality?
Very persuasive rhetoric.
L
Lisa4Catholics
Guest
You are right, and that is what I am going to do.It is obvious that regardless of what the response to my post is,God can only change the heart and she seems very angry and I do not want to get pulled into that mindset as I was last night,it wasn’t as bad today(so maybe I got a little spiritual workout)
Thankyou all for your responses you helped me put this into perspective and maybe the wonderful post may stay with her and with a grace penetrate her heart and understanding.God Bless
R
rayne89
Guest
This woman is very transparent. She obviously has self esteem problems because she feels she has to demean people in order to justify the choices she has made. I agree that the I don’t think you’ll get anywhere with her, infact it sounds like she’s trying to bait you.
I think Status Rose response is a very good one.
She seems so rediculously immature I almost think she has lied to you about how old she is. I have talked/debated with many people on this issue and I have never had someone state that someone who has more than 2 children is trailer park trash or anything even like that. That’s what makes me believe she maybe younger than what she says or she really is unbelieveably ignorant.
I think showing that her response has not gotten the angry rise out of you that she was hoping for would be you best bet. Bless you for defending life especially against such offensive ignorant people.
I think Status Rose response is a very good one.
She seems so rediculously immature I almost think she has lied to you about how old she is. I have talked/debated with many people on this issue and I have never had someone state that someone who has more than 2 children is trailer park trash or anything even like that. That’s what makes me believe she maybe younger than what she says or she really is unbelieveably ignorant.
I think showing that her response has not gotten the angry rise out of you that she was hoping for would be you best bet. Bless you for defending life especially against such offensive ignorant people.
L
Lisa4Catholics
Guest
Thanks Rayne,I will not deal with that poster again.I will just pray for her.She is not open to debate or present an argument she is just wanting to attempt to argue and call names.God Bless
T
Tantum_ergo
Guest
Very elitist comments, and yes, she does sound both immature and young (the two are NOT necessarily related, LOL). I’d say probably mid 20s, “college educated”, and somewhat of an activist, flirts with vegetarianism, reads Mother Jones and Ms., prides herself on “facts” (gleaned from ye old MSM and the favorite of the elites, “Public Radio”).
And she calls LISA a fanatic. Hmmm, back in Psych 102 we called that little ol’ defense mechanism “Projection”.
And don’t even start me on the “strawmen” arguments she attempts to interject.
Can we say, “Agenda”. (I knew you could).
Well, you did your best. You attempted to present a clear and concise rebuttal. She made the choice to ignore, twist, or defy your premises in favor of her own. However, there is still the chance that a seed has been planted which will someday (given the influence of some years of maturity and reality as opposed to the current ivory-tower academia world she appears to inhabit now) burst forth. In any case, we could and should pray that she will come to know the truth, and to be set free.
Converts are often the ones most passionate to spread the truth. I pray that she will indeed convert and make use of her intelligence and gifts in service to the Lord.
And she calls LISA a fanatic. Hmmm, back in Psych 102 we called that little ol’ defense mechanism “Projection”.
And don’t even start me on the “strawmen” arguments she attempts to interject.
Can we say, “Agenda”. (I knew you could).
Well, you did your best. You attempted to present a clear and concise rebuttal. She made the choice to ignore, twist, or defy your premises in favor of her own. However, there is still the chance that a seed has been planted which will someday (given the influence of some years of maturity and reality as opposed to the current ivory-tower academia world she appears to inhabit now) burst forth. In any case, we could and should pray that she will come to know the truth, and to be set free.
Converts are often the ones most passionate to spread the truth. I pray that she will indeed convert and make use of her intelligence and gifts in service to the Lord.
O
OhioBob
Guest
L4C-
Sadly, responding to someone with that attitude falls into the “teaching a pig to sing” category…
http://wsupress.wayne.edu/literature/humor/pig.gif
A waste of time. Hopefully your posts will work on her soul over time. I wouldn’t have been able to respond as charitably as you did.
I can’t understand people who view children as such a burdensome commodity- as an inconvenient side effect of sex. Thankfully not worth killing, but not valued very much either. Certainly not a fate I would wish on any child.
*Cleaning and scrubbing can wait 'til tomorrow,
for babies grow up we’ve learned to our sorrow . . .
So quiet down cobwebs, dust go to sleep . . .
I’m rocking my baby, and babies don’t keep. *
Sadly, responding to someone with that attitude falls into the “teaching a pig to sing” category…
http://wsupress.wayne.edu/literature/humor/pig.gif
A waste of time. Hopefully your posts will work on her soul over time. I wouldn’t have been able to respond as charitably as you did.
I can’t understand people who view children as such a burdensome commodity- as an inconvenient side effect of sex. Thankfully not worth killing, but not valued very much either. Certainly not a fate I would wish on any child.
*Cleaning and scrubbing can wait 'til tomorrow,
for babies grow up we’ve learned to our sorrow . . .
So quiet down cobwebs, dust go to sleep . . .
I’m rocking my baby, and babies don’t keep. *
- Author unknown
C
CarolAnnSFO
Guest
Lisa, I think StratusRose’s response is about the best you could do at this point. That other woman sounds completely close-minded, and she will probably just keep pushing her agenda, no matter what you say.
I would want to know from her the following, however:
I would want to know from her the following, however:
- What grounds does she have to label people with larger families as “trailer trash”? That doesn’t even make any sense (momentarily leaving aside the uncharitableness of a term like “trailer trash”) – does she have some sort of statistics to back up her ludicrous statement?
- Why is she getting so angry because other people choose to have more than 2 children? It doesn’t affect her; why should she even care? Nobody is forcing her to “pop-out” four or more.
- Status