How would one respond to this with charity?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Lisa4Catholics
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I think that it is very interesting that she is critical of you for supposedly “directing people’s lives” when it is pathetically obvious that she is frustrated at not being able to direct yours!!
I suspect that she is very young, & very unhappy.
I know that she is very lost, & very much in need of prayer–though if that were suggested to her, she might blow another fuse…
 
40.png
Lisa4Catholics:
… Nobody I know (of my generation) has FOUR children. That is what we would consider “trash”. …
Tell them that what they call ‘trash’, sacred scripture calls a ‘blessing’ and you’ll take the Word of God over their word any day of the week.
 
I agree with some other posters on this, it is MUCH more an accepted view than you might think.

Sadly, even in evangelical protestant circles. Since Catholocism teaches artificial contraception is wrong, it stands to reason that fertility might be overtly “Catholic”. Soooo, since we are sure that all that is catholic is evil, maybe having babies is ‘irresponsible’.

I have a friend with 7 children. When she was pregnant with no. 5, she and hubby were called into the pastor’s office to discuss their fears that the couple was experiencing a “spirit of catholisicm”. I kid you not. I’m assuming they were referrring to an evil spirit.

This was some E-freeC. It is sad that being fruitful is such an abhorrent idea in this culture. But, as I mentioned on this same topic in another thread (is contracepting lust?) people without faith are so afraid. Even with a strong faith it is hard not to buy in to the “fear factor”.

That woman sounds so shallow and miserable. Me thinks she dost protest too much. If she ever has the ONE, PERFECTLY planned for PROJECT CHILD. She will be the helicopter mom who is convinced her little masterpiece will never have any of the flaws that “weeuns in the trailer park” have. (I coach track and teach religion. I just ADORE the project children. They are special, just ask 'em.)

I liked the comment that it’s OUR kids who will be wiping her drool in 40 yrs. Of course her’s wouldn’t want her to live like that. She would never want to drain society-she’s responsible. So maybe she’ll be knocked off by Dr. Death.
 
How much do you all want to bet that this woman has already had several abortions?

Lisa, Rejoice!

“Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven.” (Matt 5:10-12)

:amen:
 
I think you’re right. She is in defensive mode for sure. If she didn’t want kids, Catholics are going to force her to choose that? She has probably already made a choice.

Lisa, try to be compassionate. Let’s pray for her.
40.png
masondoggy:
How much do you all want to bet that this woman has already had several abortions?

Lisa, Rejoice!

“Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven.” (Matt 5:10-12)

:amen:
 
40.png
masondoggy:
How much do you all want to bet that this woman has already had several abortions?
or at least knows women who have, contrary to her claims…or wait! Maybe her friends are to ashamed of their abortions to tell other people! :eek:
 
Victoria wrote:

"4 kids is alot? I think that’s a rather low number actually. And if everyone had 4 kids, what trouble would we be in, again? There is no population crisis going on, you know. You can stick all the people in the world into Jacksonville Fl. and we’d still have a bit of elbow room.

And, just for the record, Catholics (like myself) find contraceptives mortally sinful, so those are no deal.

And if Lisa’s a bunny, just call me trailer-park rabbit trash because I’d be more then happy to have at least 5 or 6 children. "

Hey Vicki,

Why don’t you take in one of the hundreds of thousands of children nobody wants. That would be much more genuine than popping out 6 of your own. Having such a jumbo family in the 21st century is just WEIRD! But you go, girl! Catholics need all the support they can get. Maybe you can produce a priest and a nun, as well, because Lord knows they don’t grow on trees (and they don’t last as long as they used to).

Only thing that really annoyed me in this is that they called me Vicki. :tsktsk: My name’s Victoria, not Vicki or Veronica or anything else. 😛

6 kids = Jumbo family, eh? Well, I know my religion teacher from last year had eight siblings. And I know a few people with more then one brother/sister. Some with three.

And what kids that no body wants? I can adopt a child and have my own, thank you very much.
 
My post: Abortions are preformed after 24 weeks. The child is partly taken out of the mother, the ‘doctor’ holds the child’s legs together and he impales the helpless child’s head with scissors. The brains of the child are then sucked out and the ‘aborted fetus’(murdered child), is completly pulled out.

This is legal. This is murder.

I was born at 24 weeks. I was alive, and I am alive. If you ‘need’ to abort after 24 weeks for health reasons or whatever, then just have a C-section. Don’t kill your baby! If you don’t want the child, put them up for adoption, it’s better then murder.

The reply:
24 week pregancies terminated? How many of all legal abortions are prerformed at THAT LATE stage? Perhaps one in a thousand? You need to give more REALISTIC examples, because your EXTREMES are so off average it’s rediculous! Most abortions are performed during the first 4 weeks, when there is little more than a LATE PERIOD that is excpelled from the womb. 24 weeks? You are the sick one, because this is extremely rare, and most pro-choicers agree that it’s TOO LATE to abort. In most civilized countries abortions are required to be performed during the first 12 weeks. 24 weeks? You are SICK! It’s definitely far from the norm, legal or not. You are using sensationalism to get your unpopular 'point" across.

The ANTI-CHOICE folks are quick to whip out their MOST EXTREME examples of horrible abortions. The near-birth butcher-jobs with aborted babies piled in garbage cans. The fact that most such “poster material” is articially prepared to make for horror and disgust is nevr mentioned. Such examples are NOT the norm. There are no such “garbage cans” in every abortion clinic. Those are the pictures you are supposed to see to make you feel “what horrible places those are, killing babies and tossing them away like garbage”. That is NOT the real world, but the “Hollywood” version prepared for the propaganda of ANTI-CHOICE crusaders.

The REAL world of abortion clinics and the fact that abortions are still RARE compared to the multitudes of “girls in trouble” who decide to give birth, and most often even raise their own unexpected child, is MINIMIZED by the fanatics who want to wipe out abortion.

How about a stroll through the still existing SLUMS of America, where women who are discouraged to abort may have several “unplanned” children, all of whom doomed to a life in poverty. How about those children who freeze in winter, because there is no heat, those who go filthy, because no one is able or willing to provide proper care, those hungry because the only meal they may get is a “free lunch” at school (until Dubya takes THAT away asw well). How about the MILLIONS of children whose lives are beneath dignity, who are raised the way they were born: Out of ignorance and without anyone to really care about them. All they were assured was a life sentence, with little chance for parole.

The life YOU know (in pompous comfort and with no worries) is not always the same as the life given to those on the far end of the scale. The ones who barely exist, but by nobody’s standards can be considered “living”. To tell them “aren’t you glad your mother didn’t abort you” and then walk away as though they owed YOU a thank you, is not showing love or compassion, it is showing patronizing and YOU should consider your DEMANDS of all “women in trouble” to give birth or else.

Birth sometimes is NOT the best thing these women can give their unplanned children. Unless SERIOUS assistance is offered (and presently it certainly falls FAR SHORT of the true need), you are better to leave the DECISION to each and every woman who finds herself in the position. It is HER choice, NOT anyone else’s. Most chose to carry to term and give birth. A few don’t. That is a choice others must continue to respect.

Hey, how many folks out there have not yet adopted their unwanted child from an orphanage or hospital? Talk is cheap. There are hundreds of thousands of unwanted children. Give them a loving home, and I’ll lsiten to your preaching. Until then your contribution to solve the propbelm is considered silly.
 
This person has a hardened heart. She is in essence saying that we should have killed the kids in the orphanage while we had the chance. Now it’s too late because it’s illegal. You are not going to convinve such people. I would dust off my sandals if I were you. That swine has gotten enough of your pearls.
 
#1 You don’t have have to have children to know that their life has value.
#2 Fr.Corapi had a wonderful thing to say about children.
A fetus is not a potential human being.
It is a human being with potential.
( I really like that one)
#3 If you want to have a marriage with a 98% success rate of avoiding divorce…practice NFP Natural Family Planning. People who practice contraception have a 57% divorce rate for first time marriages and 77% greater chance of divorce in second marriages.
Couples married by the Church, pray together, and use NFP - .001 – 1% end in divorce
#4 Refer them to the emotional long lasting effects caused by abortion by going to the Project Rachel website or a crisis pregnancy website. The rise of depression and suicide attempts by women who are suffering the after effects is heartbreaking.
#5 Child abuse is more prevalent now than is was prior to the legalization of abortion.
#6 Pray before any conversation that the Holy Spirit will fill you with the proper response. He has never let me down, I am sure he won’t let you down either!
 
24 weeks? You are the sick one, because this is extremely rare, and most pro-choicers agree that it’s TOO LATE to abort. In most civilized countries abortions are required to be performed during the first 12 weeks.
(from the lady’s response to Victoria)

Most civilized countries? How about the United States? So it sounds as though this pro-choice person would have no objection to prohibiting abortion after 12 weeks? I can assure you that would put some abortion clinics out of business. If she and her friends would agree to that, it’s at least a start.
 
40.png
Pro-Life_Teen:
My post: Abortions are preformed after 24 weeks. The child is partly taken out of the mother, the ‘doctor’ holds the child’s legs together and he impales the helpless child’s head with scissors. The brains of the child are then sucked out and the ‘aborted fetus’(murdered child), is completly pulled out.

This is legal. This is murder.

I was born at 24 weeks. I was alive, and I am alive. If you ‘need’ to abort after 24 weeks for health reasons or whatever, then just have a C-section. Don’t kill your baby! If you don’t want the child, put them up for adoption, it’s better then murder.

The reply:
24 week pregancies terminated? How many of all legal abortions are prerformed at THAT LATE stage? Perhaps one in a thousand? You need to give more REALISTIC examples, because your EXTREMES are so off average it’s rediculous! Most abortions are performed during the first 4 weeks, when there is little more than a LATE PERIOD that is excpelled from the womb. 24 weeks? You are the sick one, because this is extremely rare, and most pro-choicers agree that it’s TOO LATE to abort. In most civilized countries abortions are required to be performed during the first 12 weeks. 24 weeks? You are SICK! It’s definitely far from the norm, legal or not. You are using sensationalism to get your unpopular 'point" across.

The ANTI-CHOICE folks are quick to whip out their MOST EXTREME examples of horrible abortions. The near-birth butcher-jobs with aborted babies piled in garbage cans. The fact that most such “poster material” is articially prepared to make for horror and disgust is nevr mentioned. Such examples are NOT the norm. There are no such “garbage cans” in every abortion clinic. Those are the pictures you are supposed to see to make you feel “what horrible places those are, killing babies and tossing them away like garbage”. That is NOT the real world, but the “Hollywood” version prepared for the propaganda of ANTI-CHOICE crusaders.

The REAL world of abortion clinics and the fact that abortions are still RARE compared to the multitudes of “girls in trouble” who decide to give birth, and most often even raise their own unexpected child, is MINIMIZED by the fanatics who want to wipe out abortion.

How about a stroll through the still existing SLUMS of America, where women who are discouraged to abort may have several “unplanned” children, all of whom doomed to a life in poverty. How about those children who freeze in winter, because there is no heat, those who go filthy, because no one is able or willing to provide proper care, those hungry because the only meal they may get is a “free lunch” at school (until Dubya takes THAT away asw well). How about the MILLIONS of children whose lives are beneath dignity, who are raised the way they were born: Out of ignorance and without anyone to really care about them. All they were assured was a life sentence, with little chance for parole.

The life YOU know (in pompous comfort and with no worries) is not always the same as the life given to those on the far end of the scale. The ones who barely exist, but by nobody’s standards can be considered “living”. To tell them “aren’t you glad your mother didn’t abort you” and then walk away as though they owed YOU a thank you, is not showing love or compassion, it is showing patronizing and YOU should consider your DEMANDS of all “women in trouble” to give birth or else.

Birth sometimes is NOT the best thing these women can give their unplanned children. Unless SERIOUS assistance is offered (and presently it certainly falls FAR SHORT of the true need), you are better to leave the DECISION to each and every woman who finds herself in the position. It is HER choice, NOT anyone else’s. Most chose to carry to term and give birth. A few don’t. That is a choice others must continue to respect.

Hey, how many folks out there have not yet adopted their unwanted child from an orphanage or hospital? Talk is cheap. There are hundreds of thousands of unwanted children. Give them a loving home, and I’ll lsiten to your preaching. Until then your contribution to solve the propbelm is considered silly.
Its time to shake the dust off your feet. Those people are possessed!
 
However if we don’t start having more children we will end up in bad shape just like Europe.
This is literally true. The social security system works like this: Social Security taxes are withheld from your current paycheck and sent to the federal government. Those same funds are then sent out to social security recipients. The money going in today from current workers is the same money going out tomorrow to current retirees.

Retirees are not receiving money that THEY paid in years ago! That too went to pay immediate benefits.

So today’s workers are supporting today’s retirees. Lisa’s children, and the children of everyone else who have large families today, will literally support childless pro-choicers in their old age, because there is no one else to do it. I hope they appreciate they effort you will have taken in raising those future taxpayers.
 
I hope they appreciate they effort you will have taken in raising those future taxpayers.
I don’t think they’ll have the chance to even get to know them. Morally speaking, they will already have made arrangements for “assisted suicide” the instant that they become a “burden” on society. Of course, “Society” as in the government or your fiendly (I mean friendly, ha-ha) local Dr. Death will determine when you are too much of a 'burden" to yourself and others.

Remember that old story about how when “they” came for the poor, I didn’t do anything because I wasn’t poor, when they came for the old, I didn’t do anything because I wasn’t old. . .and when they came for me, there was no one to stop them because everybody else had been taken?

Yep, when these happy healthy people become “burdens”, and start screaming that they want a “second chance”, well, who is going to be LEFT to give them that chance?
 
De Maria:
Its time to shake the dust off your feet. Those people are possessed!
You should have seen the one response I got to a thread for people who wanted to research Terri Schiavo:crying: Out of respect to her and her family I will not post it,but I will tell you indeed it sounded like a demon possessed person on the other end.:nope:
 
The Death Team (feel free to add your own):
Margaret Sanger
(“The most merciful thing a large family can do for one of its infant members is to kill it.” - her words… pure evil)
Hitler
Stalin
Satan
(can’t forget the ringleader)
etc.

These people are possesed, some of these posts are sick! They sound like highschool cocky-idiots! They post whatever just to get us mad…

Jesus, show me the Way
Holy Spirit, guide me
God open up Your arms and let me into Your Kingdom
Amen.
 
40.png
Lisa4Catholics:
Okay guys I am on an abortion debate forum and one of the posters said basically what do I know I probably don’t have any children:nope: So I told them I have had 4 #5 is my nephew whom I have custody,but that was irrelevant because she was referring to pregnancy.Anyway here is the reponse I got:banghead:
For Catholic Lisa: Anyone who brings FOUR children into the world of the 21st Century is clearly NOT exactly “with it”. No wonder you are cult-material. Darling, you should either get with the birth control program or “just say no” to your husband (I assume you have one, or else you are REALLY mental and hypcritically beyond help).

None of my friends have a “Kindergarten” at their house. I know several childless couples, and a few with one or two children. Nobody I know (of my generation) has FOUR children. That is what we would consider “trash”. Oh, by the way, nobody I know (and certainly not I) ever had any abortion. We don’t have any need for such procedures, because we know how to PREVENT unwanted preganancies. Obviously a “bunny” like yourself wouldn’t know much about that.

You probably come from a “good Catholic family”, where lying about sexual matters is the chosen way to go. The Pope isn’t helping, still insisting that artificial birth control is wrong. You are in a the company of real nuts, honey. Please don’t ask anyone to prescribe to your “views”, because there is only confusion in them, and no help at all.
My response would be this:
My, my. I beg your pardon, but let me see if I understand you correctly. First, I did not know what I was talking about because I had no children. Now, I do not know what I’m talking about because I have too many. Not only do I not know… I am now a “bunny”, “trash”, in “confusion”, and “cult material”… well, the list does go on and on.

I am at a loss to come up with a charitable response. You really seemed to have lost your composure. Have you questioned yourself as to why your response to my family and my religion was so emotional? Honestly, I cannot imagine how anything other than rather deep emotional issues could lead to such an outburst from a civilized woman.

Nevertheless, I would like to give a response. My husband and I do “just say no.” That is why we don’t have twelve children. The Church does not say it is inappropriate to limit family size for legitimate reasons. The Church does say that this can be accomplished by education and self-control. I can tell you from experience that this is no lie. We have four children because we want four children, and thanks be to God, we have been blessed with them. I can also tell you that in the 21st century, the main threat to the planet is from over-consumption, rather than over-population. Any antidote to over-consumption must come first from the simple ability to say “no” to oneself. Care of our planet also requires a sincere desire for peace, which requires the ability to see all others as having dignity and to refuse to regard any as unwanted or as “trash.”

If you think that a utopian future lies in merely restricting the number of people, you are fooling yourself. The planet needs stewards who are willing to live simply, in peace, and in dignity, to be willing to listen to the views of others, even those who disagree. In this, you would appear to have much to learn. To that I can only say: Don’t we all?

PS Do not be so certain that no one you know has ever had an abortion. Were you my friend, I would not feel safe in admitting it. (There are plenty who are judgmental on both sides of this debate.)
 
40.png
BLB_Oregon:
My response would be this:
My, my. I beg your pardon, but let me see if I understand you correctly. First, I did not know what I was talking about because I had no children. Now, I do not know what I’m talking about because I have too many. Not only do I not know… I am now a “bunny”, “trash”, in “confusion”, and “cult material”… well, the list does go on and on.

I am at a loss to come up with a charitable response. You really seemed to have lost your composure. Have you questioned yourself as to why your response to my family and my religion was so emotional? Honestly, I cannot imagine how anything other than rather deep emotional issues could lead to such an outburst from a civilized woman.

Nevertheless, I would like to give a response. My husband and I do “just say no.” That is why we don’t have twelve children. The Church does not say it is inappropriate to limit family size for legitimate reasons. The Church does say that this can be accomplished by education and self-control. I can tell you from experience that this is no lie. We have four children because we want four children, and thanks be to God, we have been blessed with them. I can also tell you that in the 21st century, the main threat to the planet is from over-consumption, rather than over-population. Any antidote to over-consumption must come first from the simple ability to say “no” to oneself. Care of our planet also requires a sincere desire for peace, which requires the ability to see all others as having dignity and to refuse to regard any as unwanted or as “trash.”

If you think that a utopian future lies in merely restricting the number of people, you are fooling yourself. The planet needs stewards who are willing to live simply, in peace, and in dignity, to be willing to listen to the views of others, even those who disagree. In this, you would appear to have much to learn. To that I can only say: Don’t we all?

PS Do not be so certain that no one you know has ever had an abortion. Were you my friend, I would not feel safe in admitting it. (There are plenty who are judgmental on both sides of this debate.)
Fabulous response, as usual, BLB!!
 
40.png
BLB_Oregon:
My husband and I do “just say no.” That is why we don’t have twelve children. The Church does not say it is inappropriate to limit family size for legitimate reasons.
A note:** I am not impying that it is inappropriate to have 12 children, only that there are legitimate reasons to have fewer!** I am saying that Catholics who have 12 children do not do so because they are “bunnies” without self-control. They have 12 children because they willingly (and sacrificially) welcome that many.
 
Lisa,

I think the only “charitable” response would be, “You should be glad, because MY children will be paying for YOUR retirement.” Remember, “Children are God’s opinion that life should go on.”

I sympathize with you, I used to have a circle of “friends” that I outgrew. They used to refer to me as “The Breeder” because I had (at that time) two children. They were all childless and their outlook of the world was just as barren as their families.

Perhaps one could take the tact and publicly apologize for making her so uncomfortable with the truth that she had to resort to insults and ad homin attacks against your person. Clearly, you are having a battle of wits with an unarmed twit! Just remember, because of your children you are immortal, because of her beliefs all that is waiting for her is a grave. There was a fascinating article on why these people are so into Gaia. It’s beacause they have ignored the natural call to immortality called procreation.

Remember, love sometimes means speaking sharply to correct errors, too. It’s a trap that has been laid for us by all of the PC airheads that seem to think that everyone is as clueless as they are. That definition, IMVHO clearly applies to the person that insulted you.

I think everyone on the forum should give you three cheers for seeking to increase your maximum patience level while coping with so many other trials.

I’ll start it out:

EVERYONE! Three cheers for Lisa!

Hip!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top