How would you handle a Muslim?

[Muslim]

murtad:

I agree with you that I cannot tell someone to convert. They simply will not change without reason to do so. That is why I need to weaken my enemies’ defenses first. A good way is when a Muslim missionary approaches me, I announce myself as Muslim and point to them his Islam (ie. Tawhidian Islam) is false Islam and giving him reasons why this is so. I will teach him that the correct Islam is Trinitarian Islam and our Shahada is said by confessing the Nicene Creed.

Can you quote the Torah verses Muhammad uses to justify killing the entire Jewish tribe?

How can Muhammad judge according to Torah, when he was not even a Jew? Also, what Torah did Muhammad use, an Arabic translation or the Hebrew original? How did he know he was interpreting Torah correctly? You must keep in mind since the Jews did not accept him as a prophet, so he remains a false prophet. Therefore, Muhammad had no right to give interpretation on Torah.

Also, why are there are no more Jews in Saudi Arabia today? Who gave that false prophet Muhammad the authority to expul the Jews from their homes?

Prophet Muhammad did NOT judge according to the Torah…when did I say that? and Torah is also considered the word of God in Islam (although there are some errors)…
the same reason Jews are not in most countries… they are a small population… and Jewish home is not in SA…
your ignorance is truly amazing… you sound like a robot churning out antiIslamic propaganda…

 

[George_Waters]

pro_universal:

Muhammad did not order them killed. He referred their case to Saed Ibn Muadh, and they agreed to abide by his ruling…which was to kill the men and take the women and children.

The reason they were subject to judgment is that they had violated a peace treaty for the second time by supporting attacks on the muslims.

The tribe was essentially at that time on trial, and it agreed to the judge that Muhammad appointed. They probably didn’t expect him to be that harsh, but he was, and that was the end of the story, much like the result of a criminal trial.

What about your statement; “The claim that Islam permits the killing of civilians or anyone non-muslim is completely false.”?

So this entire tribe was put on trial, men women and children for the crimes of some of the tribe? Is this Islamic Justice? Is this the same reasoning used when a homicide bomber wants to kill Isrealis or Americians? Guilt by association? Completely false?

I have been repeatedly told Muhammed was merciful, is allowing the murder of innocent men and selling off the women and children into slavery to punish the guilty mercy? Muhammed’s hands are clean though as he didn’t order the murders, he let a judge do it for him. I guess the claim of his mercy is greatly overstated as is your statement that Islam does not permit the killing of civilians.

As a Catholic tell me what Jesus would have done if he were in Muhammed’s place.

 

[JoeyWarren]

mryan344:

My great aunt asks them in to pray a rosary with her.

This is from another post but it would work just as well with Muslims I believe.

I think that is a great way to scare them off?

 

[pro_universal]

George Waters:

What about your statement; “The claim that Islam permits the killing of civilians or anyone non-muslim is completely false.”?

So this entire tribe was put on trial, men women and children for the crimes of some of the tribe? Is this Islamic Justice? Is this the same reasoning used when a homicide bomber wants to kill Isrealis or Americians? Guilt by association? Completely false?

I have been repeatedly told Muhammed was merciful, is allowing the murder of innocent men and selling off the women and children into slavery to punish the guilty mercy? Muhammed’s hands are clean though as he didn’t order the murders, he let a judge do it for him. I guess the claim of his mercy is greatly overstated as is your statement that Islam does not permit the killing of civilians.

As a Catholic tell me what Jesus would have done if he were in Muhammed’s place.

Read Muslim’s quote. They were judged according to Jewish law.

Islam does specifically permit other religious laws to apply to populations of that religion, ie, it is traditional in Islam to let Christians apply Christian laws, Jews apply Jewish law, etc.

That’s what happened to the Qurayzah. They were Jews, and instead of applying Muslim law, the Jews’ chosen arbitrator applied Jewish law.

I would think that Jesus would’ve spared them, but this is not at all clear since we don’t have a good example of Jesus’s teaching on civil authority and the relationship between Christians and others. That’s why it’s been so easy for Christian leadership to persecute non-christians under the banner of Christianity for so long.

 

[George_Waters]

pro_universal:

Read Muslim’s quote. They were judged according to Jewish law.

Islam does specifically permit other religious laws to apply to populations of that religion, ie, it is traditional in Islam to let Christians apply Christian laws, Jews apply Jewish law, etc.

That’s what happened to the Qurayzah. They were Jews, and instead of applying Muslim law, the Jews’ chosen arbitrator applied Jewish law.

I would think that Jesus would’ve spared them, but this is not at all clear since we don’t have a good example of Jesus’s teaching on civil authority and the relationship between Christians and others. That’s why it’s been so easy for Christian leadership to persecute non-christians under the banner of Christianity for so long.

I have not read anywhere that they were judged under Jewish law; I will have to research this, thank you.

Well, the whole “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” is a very good example of Jesus’ teachings on civil authority and his treatment of non-Jews demonstrates His relationship between Jew and gentile. I disagree with your statement that this is why non-Christians were easily persecuted. “Love each other as I have loved you.” nullifies any perceived lack of teachings as a valid excuse. It was simply wrong to persecute non-Christians, period. It is simply wrong to persecute anyone for that matter.

It is so often claimed Muhammad was a paragon of mercy, but even if this tribe was judged under Jewish law why didn’t he ask the judge for leniency? He was a respected leader; didn’t he have any influence? Or did he simply not wish to exercise his influence? We all know what Jesus did when the mob wished to stone the women, as per Jewish law, who committed adultery. That is mercy.

I notice you often mention the persecution of non-Christians a lot, but fail to mention the persecution of Christians by non-Christians. You seem to carry the weight of all such sins committed by Christians on your shoulders. Why not allow those sinners to answer for their own sins?

 

[pro_universal]

George Waters:

I disagree with your statement that this is why non-Christians were easily persecuted. “Love each other as I have loved you.” nullifies any perceived lack of teachings as a valid excuse. It was simply wrong to persecute non-Christians, period. It is simply wrong to persecute anyone for that matter.

Well, this is clear to us now…but I don’t think it was so clear in the early days. In Matthew Chapter 15, Jesus initially refuses to heal the daughter of a Canaanite woman…his explanation:

He said in reply, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
25
But the woman came and did him homage, saying, “Lord, help me.”
26
He said in reply, “It is not right to take the food of the children 11 and throw it to the dogs.”
27
She said, “Please, Lord, for even the dogs eat the scraps that fall from the table of their masters.”
28
Then Jesus said to her in reply, “O woman, great is your faith! 12 Let it be done for you as you wish.” And her daughter was healed from that hour.

To me, that’s a pretty clear indication that Jesus was hesitant to help anyone who wasn’t a believer. Hence, I don’t think it has always been that explicit that Christianity forbids mistreatment or nonintervention in the mistreatment of nonbelievers.
George Waters:

It is so often claimed Muhammad was a paragon of mercy, but even if this tribe was judged under Jewish law why didn’t he ask the judge for leniency? He was a respected leader; didn’t he have any influence? Or did he simply not wish to exercise his influence?

From what I have read, the application of different religious laws was uniformly upheld when dealing with other religions. It was considered something of a communal right of religious minorities to be judged by their own laws, so the principle was respected. I note that Islam has much, much more strict reliance on notions of contract and promise than Christianity, but I may be mistaken on that.
George Waters:

I notice you often mention the persecution of non-Christians a lot, but fail to mention the persecution of Christians by non-Christians. You seem to carry the weight of all such sins committed by Christians on your shoulders. Why not allow those sinners to answer for their own sins?

They can answer for their own sins, and I will answer for mine.

 

[Cyber_Knight]

Urrm george, didnt we all know this guy is a muslim apologist who love his job so much here? Remember taqiyya is their salvation in order to make Islame looks gentle in the eye of those who love humanity. so asking such question fm his catholic point of view mean islame point of view.

 

[Cyber_Knight]

I use to live with muslims. So if theres a question like if muslims ever come at my door like JW, I would gladly to question them about, pedophilia, slavery, rapist, banditry, caravan raiding, murderer…first, if they could convince me that the last messenger indeed do that as per allahs order, then I would ask them to provide me the evidence if he was a prophet of God. Because Jesus warned us about false prophets and this one looks the successful one leading one billion people back to uncivilize society.

 

[BryPGuy89]

JoeyWarren:

At the request MrS.

If Muslims came to door to door like the Jehovah Witnesses do:

How would you handle a Muslim that came to your door?

Be mindful that this is just hypothetical.

The same as anyone else. JWs too. If they want to talk about religions then I will be more then happy to. I might even convert a few in the process, from previous conversations, few can tell me why the Catholic Church’ s teachings are wrong and why theirs is right, so I could get them maybe to question why they beleive what they do.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Muslim:

there arent any Muslim missionaries…

So… I just imagined them when I was in New York City and was handed tracts by Islamic clerics twisting the Bible?

 

[ashok]

Namaste to all of you!

the question is asked, how would you handle a Muslim?

well, as a born Hindu and enlightened with Islam’s monotheism & Vedic monotheistic nature, i would be comfortable with all Muslims b’cause my actual Vedic teachings r compatible with Islam. so there won’t be any problem whenever i face a Muslim. in fact we both can eat in one plate if i or a muslim offered my for a lunch or dinner after having a theological mutual discussion. b’cause it is only Islam which is not a racist., unlike my own Hindus who still pratice caste system b’cause of Arayianism.

as far facing any Christian, ist off, christian trinity makes no sense b’cause it is ridiculous. the father and the son r lovers but the father appears doesn’t really love his “only son” so he kills him with his own curse & sets a very bad example for his other unbegotten millions of children by ignoring like a tyrant Pharoa, when son was appealing crying begging complaining ‘why me? O, my god?’ in other words 'what crime i did? what a loving father u r? i am ur son, remember ? do i have to remind you? i’m the only loving one & i loved u but u on the other hand want to let me down acursed on the tree & allowed unbegotten children to spit on Only begotten son? what an insult ! “r u not moved, after all this happened?” “why i should die for what Adam did millions of years ago in heaven?” funniest thing to note here is christians think Christ existed before Adam.

then after death he was sent to hell? we all know, hell is no joke. hell is hell, the bible says it is gehana. son of god went there to get punished ? but he is supposed to be sinless. it is nonsense. why a sinless man should go to hell & be punished. was his acursed death not enuff? his loving father is not actually a loving one but he hates his own son so much that he put his curse on him & let die most painful death.

when i read isaias chapter seven, there i learned the father is a hair cutter & he is very much interested in removing hair of his children’s between their 2 legs…means the hair around their private parts. this is ridiculous. this is nonsense. if i tell my kids that your loving father in heaven has a hair salon & will do this to his own people, first they will look at me and think i must be joking or they may suggest i must see a psychiatrist.

then it also says the father will shave hair of their heads & beards. all this hair cleaning will be done by a rented razor. what a shame. this father doesn’t own a razor. i’m told that Paul’s resurected bodies are like angels or spiritualised. i wonder angelised bodies will still have hairs between their legs after spirtualisation of their bodies in order a rented razor to be applied on them.

from my Hinduism view, when i read christian books, it makes me laugh be’cause they all apear fairy tales for abnormal kids’ amuzement. The father of all these fairy tales is decidely Paul. thats why my Trimurty is more logical than Paul’s. although i am not a supporter of Trimurty either. i don’t think the real Jesus of nazereth has anything to do with these fairy tales be’cause he appeared to me free from all these nonsense if you seperate paul from him. paul is an anti jesus.

when i listen to Dr. zakir Naik, he makes lot of sense and he even make my religion’s foundation more sensable b’cause in the initial stage Hinduism of vedic period was more like Islam & monotheistic, which later got corrupted. the Koran makes more sense b’cause it says “for every nation, there was a warner”. i’m still learning. so far i’m impressed more and more by Dr. zakir. he got the reality of all major religions. he is honest in his research. he made me read my own Vedas critically. i’m reading Koran. the puzzle appears to me solved by the Koran.

/////Continued/////

 

[ashok]

if a christain come to me to teach his christianity, i won’t be feeling any lower b’cause when i pose questions he will be running like a bullet. my Trimurty will dominate his Trinity. b’cause mine is infinite & his is only 3 limited forms of incest-charecters. b’cause the father is marrying a virgin and she gave birth to the only begoten son but then father and son are ONE meaning same charecter. the father became son and son became father…this is nonsense. it is incestual incarnation. it is not even a hollywood movie. b’cause hollywood movies atleast make some sense and kids love to watch.

Trinity is flawed. it is not even like my own Hindu mythology. it appears to me fabricated with a carefull purpose to justify death of Jesus and cover up his enemeis’ crimes & persecution. paul was a harraser of people of Jesus. after paul’s new invention of trinity & justification of his death, most people forgot the real message of Jesus & lost for 1000’s of years in paul’s misery. it is not strange.

my Hindus too lost for 1000’s of years in urban myths. paul’s myth made Jews winners. jews were able to seperate their faith from their enemy-Jesus’ message b’cause they did not like him to be their messia. they still r waiting for a messia. on the other hand they shift the hatred and anger of Jesus’ so called death towards the father of Jesus. paul was a champion to make the Father of Jesus a “criminal” but covered his “crime” under the cloak of articles of a new faith of his own. paul was an enemy of law of Jesus’ god. people of Jesus wanted to kill paul for fabricating a totally new thing contrary to what they had learned from Jesus. whenever people tried to blame jews for killing of their messia, paul’s new hellenised paganised philosophy came to rescue criminal jews and romans. paul was a sharp pharisee. a jew. most likely he remained a staunch hypocritical jew his whole life and never accepted Jesus. his vision was a hoax. b’cause what he did in rest of his life after his vision, was not truly compatible with Jesus’ message. paul destroyed the pure monotheirstic characteristic of Jesus’ message. jews became winners. romans became winners. Jesus’ actual message lost in between. if Jesus comes back his first job most likely will be totall rejection of his own “christians” who r actually pupils of paul & not Jesus’ sheep.

so i won’t be in lower level, if i meet a christian who follows paul. my Hindu myth is superior to his myth of Trinty. my Trimurty make more sense than his very limited only 3 form of incestual ridiculuous paganistic fabrication.

if i meet a muslim, my true Hinduism of initial stage of Vedic period is more compatible with Islam’s monotheistic characteristic. we both can eat in one plate. little wonder if lower caste of my Hindus embraced Islam for what Islam offered them, honoured them & rescued them from the Arayanised Hindu caste system in which they (lower caste) were kept in worst then the animals condition for centuries prior to the arrival of Muslims in India.

 

[MrS]

You must believe in sola scriptura… you very obviously know nothing of what the bible really can teach us all, and you have quickly convinced me that you are relying on your own research and interpretation.

I really don’t know where to begin… except that it won’t be to learn more of your religion quickly, and by myself… I see what a mess that kind of effort got you into.

oh well…

 

[freedomm]

ashok:

---

Trinity is flawed. it is not even like my own Hindu mythology. it appears to me fabricated with a carefull purpose to justify death of Jesus and cover up his enemeis’ crimes & persecution. paul was a harraser of people of Jesus. after paul’s new invention of trinity & justification of his death, most people forgot the real message of Jesus & lost for 1000’s of years in paul’s misery. it is not strange.

my Hindus too lost for 1000’s of years in urban myths. paul’s myth made Jews winners. jews were able to seperate their faith from their enemy-Jesus’ message b’cause they did not like him to be their messia. they still r waiting for a messia. on the other hand they shift the hatred and anger of Jesus’ so called death towards the father of Jesus. paul was a champion to make the Father of Jesus a “criminal” but covered his “crime” under the cloak of articles of a new faith of his own. paul was an enemy of law of Jesus’ god. people of Jesus wanted to kill paul for fabricating a totally new thing contrary to what they had learned from Jesus. whenever people tried to blame jews for killing of their messia, paul’s new hellenised paganised philosophy came to rescue criminal jews and romans. paul was a sharp pharisee. a jew. most likely he remained a staunch hypocritical jew his whole life and never accepted Jesus. his vision was a hoax. b’cause what he did in rest of his life after his vision, was not truly compatible with Jesus’ message. paul destroyed the pure monotheirstic characteristic of Jesus’ message. jews became winners. romans became winners. Jesus’ actual message lost in between. if Jesus comes back his first job most likely will be totall rejection of his own “christians” who r actually pupils of paul & not Jesus’ sheep.

so i won’t be in lower level, if i meet a christian who follows paul. my Hindu myth is superior to his myth of Trinty. my Trimurty make more sense than his very limited only 3 form of incestual ridiculuous paganistic fabrication.

Very much close to the facts, good observation, good analysis. and to the point, dear ashok.

---

 

[JoeyWarren]

Oh my God!

 

[inJESUS]

Well, this is clear to us now…but I don’t think it was so clear in the early days. In Matthew Chapter 15, Jesus initially refuses to heal the daughter of a Canaanite woman…his explanation:

To me, that’s a pretty clear indication that Jesus was hesitant to help anyone who wasn’t a believer. Hence, I don’t think it has always been that explicit that Christianity forbids mistreatment or nonintervention in the mistreatment of nonbelievers.

to me, this clearly shows you have absolutely no idea who Jesus is…i wont even try to explain why cuz if such a passage is not understoood, oh well…

From what I have read, the application of different religious laws was uniformly upheld when dealing with other religions. It was considered something of a communal right of religious minorities to be judged by their own laws, so the principle was respected. I note that Islam has much, much more strict reliance on notions of contract and promise than Christianity, but I may be mistaken on that.

so muhammad judged according to the Torah? was the Torah uncorrupt at his time dear Pro?

 

[inJESUS]

when i listen to Dr. zakir Naik, he makes lot of sense and he even make my religion’s foundation more sensable b’cause in the initial stage Hinduism of vedic period was more like Islam & monotheistic, which later got corrupted. the Koran makes more sense b’cause it says “for every nation, there was a warner”. i’m still learning. so far i’m impressed more and more by Dr. zakir. he got the reality of all major religions. he is honest in his research. he made me read my own Vedas critically. i’m reading Koran. the puzzle appears to me solved by the Koran.

is it the same Naik who said : if you eat pork pig meat you become like a pig …you better keep reading him especially while proving your scripture prophecized his “holy” prophet

/////Continued/////

 

[inJESUS]

freedomm:

Dear brotherhrolf:

Is thats the reason Muslims are on your Catholic forum and when you (Catholics) go on Muslim forums, there too, they do listen to you and present their case to you about what they believe?

If by “listen” you meant they must accept everything that you claim/believe, then they too can reciprocrate your “listen” towards you becasue as much as you have a right to impose your “listening” on them or others they too have on you. No?

and do YOU listen dear Freedom? is that why you keep posting the same claims that were refuted badly under your eyes? or your irrelevant repetitive passages that were explained to you a thousand time?

 

[inJESUS]

Sorry Ashok, i won’t reply as well to your posts regarding Christanity cuz you read non-Christian site thats why you got everything wrong and which highlights your agenda.

 

[Muslim]

inJESUS:

to me, this clearly shows you have absolutely no idea who Jesus is…i wont even try to explain why cuz if such a passage is not understoood, oh well…

so muhammad judged according to the Torah? was the Torah uncorrupt at his time dear Pro?

non Muslims are not judged by the Sharia or the Holy Qu’ran… although some stupid people might judge them by the Sharia.

and again you are not READING properly.The Prophet (pbuh) did not judge them by the Torah, he APPOINTED the friend of the tribe to judge them.and he judged them by the Torah…and also the Qu’ran was not even finished… the Qu’ran did not come in one day… its so simple how hard is it for you to get it?