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Fairwinds
Guest
if you don’t take “obligation” seriously, its natural you think Jesus gives out “Get Out Of Mass” cards for passing Go.
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BillP
Guest
Do you really not get that the entire point of Catholicism is that Jesus gives us a “get out of Hell free” card? We achieve Heaven not through any merit of our own, but ONLY because of his sacrifice on the Cross. We don’t earn it by “checking the boxes”.
Is Mass important? ABSOLUTELY! Are other things sometimes more important? Yes, Jesus specifically said so in John 2:27.
BTW, what do YOU think Jesus meant when he said:
in John 2:27?
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Convert_in_99
Guest
Can’t you and the kids go to mass at another time, perhaps a Saturday vigil or an early mass, AND then attend services with your husband on Sunday morning?
I do this with my husband, he is also protestant. He also comes to mass with me a lot too.
You (and your kids) don’t take communion in each other’s churches but you can say prayers with them, or listen to the Bible readings, and maybe even find something of value in his minister’s sermon. I know I have at hubbys church.
We don’t have kids though so it is easier for this to work. Maybe after you attend mass you can have a babysitter or family member or friend watch the kids while you attend services with your husband? That might make him feel more like you support his trying to be Christian even if he isn’t Catholic.
I do this with my husband, he is also protestant. He also comes to mass with me a lot too.
You (and your kids) don’t take communion in each other’s churches but you can say prayers with them, or listen to the Bible readings, and maybe even find something of value in his minister’s sermon. I know I have at hubbys church.
We don’t have kids though so it is easier for this to work. Maybe after you attend mass you can have a babysitter or family member or friend watch the kids while you attend services with your husband? That might make him feel more like you support his trying to be Christian even if he isn’t Catholic.
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Fairwinds
Guest
I’m not going to respond to argumentative straw man questions. the church teaches that Mass attendance is an obligation, excusable only for a couple of reasons.
that said, no one is going to make you attend Mass if you find better things to do.
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EasterJoy
Guest
Catholics are not universalists and there is no 27th verse in the 2nd Chapter of the Gospel of John.
If it is impossible for a believer to fail to go to Heaven, then why on earth would St. Paul have given the Phillipians these instructions, “So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent, work out your salvation with fear and trembling. For God is the one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work.” Phil 2:12-13
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BillP
Guest
I stand corrected. It was Mark 2:27. Sorry.Catholics are not universalists and there is no 27th verse in the 2nd Chapter of the Gospel of John.
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EasterJoy
Guest
OK, but the quote is still being taken out of context. No one here is disputing that there are legitimate reasons to miss Mass, even while keeping the Lord’s day holy. The question is whether the mutual compassion of marriage requires the Catholic spouse to choose a last-minute demand–this was not a “on the one day a year set aside to do so” that you implied in one of your posts–to attend something else in place of Mass over the obligation to attend Mass. Generally speaking, no, it does not. The Eucharist is the source and summit of the Christian life–of ALL Christian life–and there are no substitutes for it. The obligation to attend Mass in honor of the Lord’s day is obligatory because the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is that necessary to the Christian life. This is not about Catholics being better than Protestants. For all we know, there are Protestant services in some particular place that are more reverent and full of better Christians than the Catholic Masses in the same locale. No, this is about the Mass itself, in spite of the faults of those who may celebrate it at any particular time or in any particular place, being beyond any other form of worship, so far beyond as to be beyond compare, and that is not up for debate.
It is understandable that a compassionate spouse would ask the question, but generally speaking it is required to find a solution where attendance of Mass is not dispensed with in order to reach a compromise. Whether or not a particular pastor who knows the couple and the particulars of their situation would consider a dispensation for an isolated incident appropriate is something else again. That’s a pastoral question, not something I’m familiar with and certainly beyond my pay grade.
On that note, when asking questions of the clergy about the care of souls, I think it would be preferable to avoid words done in all caps. It implies shouting, and this is not something to shout into a priest’s face about.
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BillP
Guest
I didn’t imply it. The OP stated it.
With a date of 15 June, which is in fact, the day before Father’s Day here in the States. Obviously, the OPs husband was trying to mark Father’s Day for his father and presumably the grandfather of the children.
I don’t think the quote is being taken out of context AT ALL (there I go shouting again!). Jesus’ entire point was we can get so focused on the minute details of “the rules” that we completely disregard the purpose of them. I think that potentially, this is such a case. Especially given the OPs response to the request, with the frowns and shrugs.
Look you’ve already agreed that the obligation to attend Mass is conditional.
We’re simply haggling over the details. I think this case represents a legitimate reason, you don’t appear to. Fair enough.
I think its much ruder to lecture people on internet etiquette in a post not directed at you than to post an occassional word in caps for emphasis, but obviously, YMMV.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
Catholics don’t observe the Sabbath, we celebrate Sunday, the Lord’s Day. As Catholics, we honor Christ’s invitation to partake in His Eucharistic Service.
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KellyPalmer
Guest
Jesus Christ built a Church and the Church was given the Holy Spirit to deliver God’s truth as a living authority. That same Church has already made known God’s conditions on when a person can miss Mass and the OP’s case doesn’t fit into one of those. You and I are not God…we do not get to decide what conditions can allow ourselves and others to miss the Supper of the Lamb.
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BillP
Guest
I’m sorry but that is incorrect. At best it is half the story. The Church teaches that:
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a3.htm
And it is up to each one of us to define those serious reasons for ourselves. No one can do it for us definitively, we must each of us decide what constitutes a serious reason, then be accountable to God for our definition.
Sure there are guidelines, but at the end of the day we are each responsible for our own decisions.
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KellyPalmer
Guest
Sorry but this backs up what I have written, not what you have written. If it were up to each of us to decide, then there would be no need to get a dispensation from a Priest. You didn’t bold that part.
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KellyPalmer
Guest
This bears repeating. Catholics do not observe the Sabbath.
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BillP
Guest
I didn’t bold it cause it doesn’t apply. Its a serious issue OR a pastoral dispensation.
You don’t need a pastoral dispensation if you have a serious reason.
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BillP
Guest
This is a distinction without a difference. Are you seriously trying to assert that Mark 2:27 no longer applies because we observe Sunday instead of Saturday? That’s almost the definition of “legalistic” doncha think?
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journey00
Guest
Ok, people…thanks for all the responses.
The point of the original post was seeking suggestions on how to gently explain to a Protestant why Sunday Mass is obligatory. Not just to my husband but to any Protestant. I probably shouldn’t have posted the events that led me to come to here to ask…but I did…so there you go…my bad.
If he were a faithful, church going Protestant, we would work it out to attend his church. But he’s not and never has been. When all of us were Protestant, if something “more” important such as work came up, he would choose it over attending service. Notice, I didn’t tell him he couldn’t go. In fact, he attends Mass with us more than he has ever attended his church.
In case you are wondering, he chose to work instead of going to church on Father’s Day. But guess what…that is ok. My job is to be a good loving wife and be an example of my Catholic faith and the Holy Spirit will handle the rest.
The point of the original post was seeking suggestions on how to gently explain to a Protestant why Sunday Mass is obligatory. Not just to my husband but to any Protestant. I probably shouldn’t have posted the events that led me to come to here to ask…but I did…so there you go…my bad.
If he were a faithful, church going Protestant, we would work it out to attend his church. But he’s not and never has been. When all of us were Protestant, if something “more” important such as work came up, he would choose it over attending service. Notice, I didn’t tell him he couldn’t go. In fact, he attends Mass with us more than he has ever attended his church.
In case you are wondering, he chose to work instead of going to church on Father’s Day. But guess what…that is ok. My job is to be a good loving wife and be an example of my Catholic faith and the Holy Spirit will handle the rest.
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EasterJoy
Guest
I’m sorry you don’t think the faithful have any business defending others from shouting, particularly members of the clergy.
My point was not that I have a different opinion than yours. My point is that participation in the Mass on Sundays and Holy Days is obligatory for the faithful, and of the reason the OP posted is not one of the reasons given in canon law by which one of the faithful may take it upon himself or herself to dispense of that participation.
Dispensations for other reasons are something for her to take up with her pastor, the person actually appointed to ascertain with her what the spirit of the law requires in her case, and are not for us to give, so it is pointless for us to haggle over it at all. If he cannot be reached and she just has to do the best she can, well, that is for them to work out.
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journey00
Guest
Thanks, EasterJoy. It seems that you understand that I had to make the correct choice. I did not think that I had a very good reason to miss Mass, nor did I want to. I’m very happy that we met our Sunday obligation. I teach my kids that Sunday service is not an option, it is obligatory and we work our schedule around Sunday Mass, even when we travel. The kids would have been confused if we had skipped Sunday Mass to attend a Protestant church that we never attend and maybe even thought that I’m not practicing what I preach. That’s not the example I want to set for them. Being a faithful Catholic is not always the popular choice but when I came back to the Catholic Church I knew I was in it with both feet. Even my husband has to admire my devotion.
Thank you everyone for taking the time to read and respond, I truly appreciate it.
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Brandall
Guest
I have a definite advantage over a fallen away cradle Catholic. I’m not a Catholic (yet) but I love the mass. I can’t participate in communion but I’m awed by the respect and holiness of it. Nearly every mass to me is incredible. When possible, usually 1 to 3 times a week, I get up early and go to the 6:30 AM mass because I feel spiritually nourished for participating.
Sometimes I think it an incredible gift not to have been brought up in the Catholic Church but to have discovered it as an adult when there was a spiritual hunger in my soul.
There are expressions in the Catholic Church that have been around for ages that just don’t sound right. Sunday obligation and holy day obligation are on this list. Through the ages, some of the brightest minds were part of the Catholic Church. Could one of those minds or a current bright mind not come up with better wording? On this same tangential line, the terms apologist and apologetics sound like you’re defending the church with guilt. I was also ready to walk away from the Catholic church for good when I heard the term “Co-redemptrix”. Rather than walk away, I met with the leader of Adult Education at my church and he explained it. Further research confirmed what he said but I still think someone could find some better terminology.
When I miss church on Sunday, I do feel like I’ve sinned. Does god care? I think so because he wants me in that holy place giving my soul the nourishment it needs.
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KellyPalmer
Guest
No, I don’t think so. This is an issue of understanding the faith, not legalism. The Sabbath didn’t move to Sunday. The Sabbath still exists. We no longer celebrate it or “rest” on that day since it is part of the old law. The previous observance of the Sabbath in the Old Law was to prepare for the mystery of Christ! So yeah, statements in The Bible about the Sabbath do not apply to Sundays – The Lord’s Day – which are expressly distinguished from the Sabbath. The way we celebrate the Lord’s Day is different from the way that the Sabbath was celebrated. Jesus’ Passover fulfilled the Sabbath!
In regards to the serious reasons for missing Mass, your opinion does not coincide with Canon Law. We will have to agree to disagree.
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