Hugh Heffner has died

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I didn’t say no. I’m confident it’s well within the realm of human character to lust after naked cherubims (or any other naked form); but, lust was not the intent of the Chapel.

Playboy’s intent is lust and envy. That’s a huge difference.

If you intend ill and then cause it you have much more ownership on the sin of the other than if you intend no harm and another sinned because they were within the sphere of your actions.
 
JetteZ said:
I didn’t say no. I’m confident it’s well within the realm of human character to lust after naked cherubims (or any other naked form); but, lust was not the intent of the Chapel.

Playboy’s intent is lust and envy. That’s a huge difference.

If you intend ill and then cause it you have much more ownership on the sin of the other than if you intend no harm and another sinned because they were within the sphere of your actions.
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Yet Matthew 3.1-2 still applies. Do people still want to judge and condemn HH, and risk not making it to Purgatory? It is a risky game…judging and condemning…
 
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JoshuaIsLord said:
Yet Matthew 3.1-2 still applies. Do people still want to judge and condemn HH, and risk not making it Purgatory? It is a risky game…judging and condemning…
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HH has only one Judge and that is Jesus on Judgement Day. And also it is God’s WILL that all be saved…and there in comes the rub…If one person makes it to hell, then God’s WILL has been thwarted, at least on the surface. Maybe there is a reason the Church has stated for reason that it cannot positively say that anyone has gone to hell. Even though a bunch Christian Apologists argue counter unproductively to that by stating that Judas is in hell. But that is for another topic…
 
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Do you recognize that people on this thread are condemning his actions without judging the state of his soul or his eternal destiny?
 
JoshuaIsLord said:
Not arguing the point, only pointing out the facts.
Just like the contraception issue. Look at any Catholic family. 95% have only 1 or 2 children. That is my observation over 30 years at roughly 20 parishes( I have traveled a lot being a Nuclear Road Whore and now an IT Tech ) . Those observations dictate a different belief in Contraception. Current parish I attend, all of the Church Leaders fit into the 1 and 2 child statistic.
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Isn’t this a “judgment” though? I have only 2 children. My wife and I have not ever nor will we ever use contraception. There are lots of reasons and ways a couple can be at that point. No need to make assumptions.
 
Condemning and Judging for all intentional purposes and context are the same in this thread in my honest opinion.
 
If you have something you’d like to share I am open to learning. What I said is from my understanding in reading the Bible and other scholarly sources on biblical interpretations.
Job 1:20-22: Then Job arose and tore his cloak and cut off his hair. He fell to the ground and worshiped. He said, “Naked I came forth from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I go back there. The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.” In all this Job did not sin, nor did he charge God with wrong.
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If Job did not sin by being naked in front of God how is nakedness, in and of itself, sinful?
 
JoshuaIsLord said:
Condemning and Judging for all intentional purposes and context are the same in this thread in my honest opinion.
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Let me phrase it another way. Is it possible to say that someone’s actions are bad without saying that person is in hell?
 
Good article…

It could be said, in charity to Hefner, that in selecting Monroe as his origin and destination, he was acting out of one of the deepest desires known to man: to spend one’s entire life in beauty, surrounded by it and suffused with it.

That is, in fact, not only a core desire of the human person; according to St. Augustine, it is also a core desire of the angels. St. Augustine tells us that the angels, upon their creation, were immediately faced with a choice. As they entered into their first moment of consciousness, in which they recognized that they were suffused with the divine light, they had the option of either basking in their own beauty — navel-gazing, we would say — or looking beyond themselves to the unsurpassable, capital-B Beauty of their Creator.

All of the angels had the opportunity to make this choice with full knowledge of the consequences. Having the benefit of angelic intellects, they, unlike us, were naturally smart enough to recognize without hesitation that they could not have created themselves.

Most of the angels chose to cooperate with the divine light they were given, and so they turned to God — following the trail of beauty from themselves to their divine source. But some — one-third, according to a traditional interpretation of Revelation 12:4 — chose to rest in their own created beauty. The moment they made that choice, they severed the thread of grace connecting them with their Maker and so cast themselves into the abyss — thereby losing the very spark that fueled their dazzling luster.
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Joe_5859 said:
Isn’t this a “judgment” though? I have only 2 children. My wife and I have not ever nor will we ever use contraception.
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Count yourself very fortunate then. DISCLAIMER: Women are a lot better at hiding things then men…I’ve googled studies on women hiding contraceptive use from their husbands. On the average it is 70% for those households where the husband disapproves of it’s use.
Joe_5859 said:
There are lots of reasons and ways a couple can be at that point. No need to make assumptions.
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Only just an observation of study over 30 years. I have 2 children myself. The wife had ovarian Cancer after the second.

10 to 20 percent might be coincidence of lots of reasons. But the remainder of the 90 to 95 percent I quoted is something else.

Long ago I stop taking people at face value. That is one of things that led to my conversion to Catholicism 30 years ago. People lie everyday, even the most Devout Catholic. But Catholics lie less than Protestants. And unfortunately Atheists that I have encountered lie even less. I’ve have worked with Hindu’s for the last 2 years. They lie even less then Atheists, they are so afraid of Karma…

So with that being said, I am very less likely inclined to believe anything a Catholic claims on this forum. I’ve followed this forum since 2003.
 
But the proper Catholic response to this thread to say:

"I will pray for the repose of his soul"

It really is distasteful and tacky and very unchristian to talk negatively about a person after they have died…

All one has to do is follow the GOLDEN RULE. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

And also put your self in the PERSONA of Jesus Christ…Would he talk ill of the deceased…would he violate his own words of the Golden Rule?
 
JoshuaIsLord said:
Long ago I stop taking people at face value.
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I’m sorry to hear that. Perhaps that is where you and I differ. I’m generally inclined to take people at face value.

Now, I realize that people lie. But, since I want to presume the best in other people, I will only conclude that someone is lying to my face if I have evidence for it.
JoshuaIsLord said:
A most definite YES.
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That’s all that is going on here. No one is judging his soul—we are only pointing out that many of his actions and life choices were not good ones. Like I said above, I’m inclined to look for the best in other people. I’ve seen comments about how Hefner’s upbringing was very affectionless. And it does go towards explaining how he ended up living the life that he lived. But I’m not going to let that stop me from saying his work was bad for our culture. It was.
 
JoshuaIsLord said:
But the proper Catholic response to this thread to say:

“I will pray for the repose of his soul”

It really is distasteful and tacky and very unchristian to talk negatively about a person after they have died…
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I’m inclined to agree with this, but only to a point. Obviously, there are exceptions. No one claims it is unChristian to speak of the evil the Nazis perpetrated simply because Hitler is dead now.

I certainly wouldn’t show up at Hefner’s funeral to protest, nor go up to his grieving loved ones and tell them that he was a horrible person. But in the context of an online discussion weeks after his passing, I don’t think it’s unChristian to point out that much of his life work was contrary to the Gospel.
 
And as Catholics we should always strive to be Charitable.

Yea I know that is a hard concept ( being sarcastic ) 😉
Yea Yea Yea I know I am not always charitable myself…☺️

This forum visible to the whole world. Keep that in mind.
 
Joe_5859 said:
I’m sorry to hear that. Perhaps that is where you and I differ. I’m generally inclined to take people at face value. Now, I realize that people lie. But, since I want to presume the best in other people, I will only conclude that someone is lying to my face if I have evidence for it.
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I am a product of the United States Nuclear Navy and the United States Postal Service. Both places taught me to distrust everyone I work with, because they will stab you in the back in a New York second to get that next promotion or make themselves look good. Now that I work for the State, this belief of mine has been reinforced again. So at least you now have a focus of where I am coming from.
 
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Makes sense. I’ve (almost) always worked for Catholic entities. 🙂 So I’ve been blessed with lots of great co-workers. They’re more likely to lie to make someone else look good than they are to make themselves look good. 😉
 
Joe_5859 said:
Makes sense. I’ve (almost) always worked for Catholic entities. 🙂 So I’ve been blessed with lots of great co-workers. They’re more likely to lie to make someone else look good than they are to make themselves look good. 😉
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You work at one extreme end and I work at the other extreme end… LOL…
 
I only have 2 on earth, many in heaven.

But, yes, I think half my gray hair is from the stuff I hear from other Catholics.
 
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