Humans were created sinful. Then we were told not to sin. Is that a fair demand?

[Yorkshireman]

Yet, God did nothing ??? Catholic Churches have a crucifix to remind those who enter that God did something.

Wouldn’t it have been simpler to “cut out the middleman” and have God take away the devil’s supernatural powers?

With the devil crippled God wouldn’t have had to spend so much effort counting up our sins like a celestial accountant.

The free will of the devil to do his evil is clearly as important to God as our having free will.

 

[Yorkshireman]

The possibility of hell exists whenever there are persons with free will who can reject God - regardless of Lucifer.

Oh I see. In addition to the sins caused by God giving us free will there are the sins caused by the (God-created) devil tempting us. God is very good at creating traps isn’t he?

Is the devil in charge of hell according to current catholic teaching?

 

[tonyrey]

Considering the lack of scientific evidence/proof of God, I’m not surprised many do reject the likelihood of his existence.

It seems that your brand of Christianity is “Credo quia absurdum”!

What is the **basis **of all scientific evidence? Does it explain itself?

 

[tonyrey]

The possibility of hell exists whenever there are persons with free will who can reject God - regardless of Lucifer.

The sins are not **caused **by God. They are permitted because it would be a greater evil to create only zombies who can’t choose what to think, how to live and who to love.

God is very good at creating traps isn’t he?

Can you explain how you would create individuals with free will who have** no influence** on one another?

Is the devil in charge of hell according to current catholic teaching?

No one is in charge of hell. Everyone **lives for himself **and thinks he is superior to the poor fools who love God and love others… http://forums.catholic-questions.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=7329036

 

[grannymh]

The free will of the devil to do his evil is clearly as important to God as our having free will.

Absolutely.

 

[tonyrey]

Wouldn’t it have been simpler to “cut out the middleman” and have God take away the devil’s supernatural powers?

Suppose you had been the middleman. Would you have agreed that it was simpler to cut you out - given that others would resort to evil anyway?

 

[Yorkshireman]

The free will of the devil to do his evil is clearly as important to God as our having free will.

Absolutely.

And obviously Hitler’s free will was as important to God as that of the 50-70 million who died in WW2.

What a good job humans didn’t feel that.

 

[tonyrey]

And obviously Hitler’s free will was as important to God as that of the 50-70 million who died in WW2.

What a good job humans didn’t feel that.

What would you have done? Create no one with free will?

 

[grannymh]

And obviously Hitler’s free will was as important to God as that of the 50-70 million who died in WW2.

What a good job humans didn’t feel that.

1.What is the entitlement which goes with free will?
2.What makes free will important to God?
3.What did the 50-70 million who died during WW2 have a chance at?
4.Why don’t trees have free will?

 

[roelblomsma]

It’s just common sense. If God didn’t like his blueprint for humans he’d have changed it.

So why did He got angry. First at Adam and Eve, secondly with Kain, third when he wanted flood everybody…If He knew people were going to sin, why would he get angry?

 

[grannymh]

So why did He got angry. First at Adam and Eve, secondly with Kain, third when he wanted flood everybody…If He knew people were going to sin, why would he get angry?

The point is that people had the opportunity to live in eternal happiness.

 

[roelblomsma]

Well as God can see perfectly into the future he knew Adam and Eve were going to do that. Also for many Catholics that forbidden fruit thing is just a story.

Are you kidding? The forbidden fruit thing just a story? The whole of Christianity is based on that ‘story’. Christ wouldn’t have to be in Earth weren’t it for the original sin.

 

[PRmerger]

Are you kidding? The forbidden fruit thing just a story? The whole of Christianity is based on that ‘story’. Christ wouldn’t have to be in Earth weren’t it for the original sin.

Indeed. Didn’t St. Augustine say something like, “O happy fault which gained for us so great a Redeemer!”

 

[davidv]

Mary was never sinless. Only somebody who doesn’t read the bible would think that.

What your proof of this?

The bible is clear every human sinned except for Jesus.

Only if it is misinterpreted.

Mary even SAID that she needed a savior, which she did. She is human just like you and me.

How does this mean she sinned?

She was not perfect, and she was not sinless. Everybody knows that.

No. You are quite wrong. Many know without out a doubt that you believe false things about Mary.

 

[BlueShadow123]

The Bible is equally clear that EVERYONE in Jerusalem went to the Jordan to see John the Baptist. Do you for a second imagine that the entire city literally emptied? That every man, woman and child, shepherd who was on duty to guard the sheep and soldier who was meant to guard the gates toddled off to listen to the Baptist?

Of course it doesn’t. Neither does ‘all have sinned’ mean there is no possibility of Mary being sinless.

Yes she acknowledged a saviour. Jesus saved her from sin by preventing her from ever falling into it in the first place. If you stop me from falling into a pit by stretching out your hand to prevent it, will I not hail you as saving me? Just as much as if I fell in and you pulled me out?

Next time, read all of my posts:

"Could be possible, if she was part of God’s plan all along, which she was. That means he would have guided her to prevent her from sin in her life. If not, then she definitely would have sinned sometime, because its impossible for a human not to at least once. Everybody is a sinner.
"

What I bolded would mean it would be possible of God made her not sin.

 

[BlueShadow123]

What your proof of this?

Only if it is misinterpreted.

How does this mean she sinned?

No. You are quite wrong. Many know without out a doubt that you believe false things about Mary.

Next time, read all of my posts:

"Could be possible, if she was part of God’s plan all along, which she was. That means he would have guided her to prevent her from sin in her life. If not, then she definitely would have sinned sometime, because its impossible for a human not to at least once. Everybody is a sinner.
"

What I bolded would mean it would be possible if God made her not sin.

 

[davidv]

Next time, read all of my posts:

"Could be possible, if she was part of God’s plan all along, which she was. That means he would have guided her to prevent her from sin in her life. If not, then she definitely would have sinned sometime, because its impossible for a human not to at least once. Everybody is a sinner.
"

What I bolded would mean it would be possible of God made her not sin.

Why do you assume your post wasn’t read?

It is Church Dogma that Mary was sinless.

It is dogma because it is true. Therefore your “Everybody is a sinner” isn’t exactly as you interprete it.

 

[BlueShadow123]

Why do you assume your post wasn’t read?

It is Church Dogma that Mary was sinless.

It is dogma because it is true. Therefore your “Everybody is a sinner” isn’t exactly as you interprete it.

It is true to YOU and followers of the church. Not everybody else. There are billions of people who think differently than you do. You will have to accept that.

And I just said, the way it would be possible, is if God was with her through her life to keep her sinless. If it is true, that she was sinless, then that is how it would be possible. If God kept her away from sin.

Either way, I’m not getting in a big debate about this with you. I was just stating a point that if she is sinless, its because GOD kept her away from sin- which is how it is possible.

 

[PRmerger]

Why do you assume your post wasn’t read?

It is Church Dogma that Mary was sinless.

It is dogma because it is true. Therefore your “Everybody is a sinner” isn’t exactly as you interprete it.

Indeed.

Clearly, “everyone is a sinner” is false, for who could claim that the little 9 month old babe has ever committed a single sin?

 

[BlueShadow123]

Indeed.

Clearly, “everyone is a sinner” is false, for who could claim that the little 9 month old babe has ever committed a single sin?

If that is true, then the babies do not need a savior. But everybody needs a savior. or so the bible says.

Unless you don’t count babies as ‘everybody’ that would mean you don’t consider them human.

Same goes for Mary. Even though she was sinless, she still had a savoir, and she accepted that. However since she was sinless, why did she accept she had a savior if she didn’t need one? If she was sinless her whole life, then she did not need a savior, which is why she never needed to accept him as her savior to save her from sin that she ‘didn’t’ have.

You do realize she could have sinned after she had Jesus. We don’t know, the bible does not state. But the bible verse I quoted earlier, was definitely after she had Jesus, which means she probably did sin if she needed a savior.