I am a Protestant who wants an honest answer

[exrc]

Des:

The problem with some of the protestants on this board is that they are not here to understand. They just want to keep repeating their same twisted verses without giving any logical thought about their position as sola scripture believers. They have no authority whatsoever. They cannot with “ONE VOICE” preach on matters of faith and morals. For example: there is this protestant fellow who may divorce his wife. I said that scripture is quite clear on the sin of divorce. He only says “but why would God want me to suffer like this?” and says he will divorce and put trust in the Lord. There is nobody to tell him absolutely that what he is doing is wrong. Plain and simple. Only a book with words that speak to him when and how he wants them to speak to him.

Des,
If this story is completely accurate, then I would have to say that that this man has not completely submitted to the word of God. Which is the final authority on everything. Why do you judge all "protestants " on this one mans actions. Do you submit yourself completely to Gods word? If so, why are you Roman Catholic? You cannot be RC and submit to his word, this is an oxymoron. You stand in judgement like the pharisees.

Repent and believe Gods promises!

In love exrc

 

[Pax]

Ozzie:

I’ve read it several times. It’s an allegory and written as a rebuttal to Blake’s “Marriage of Heaven and Hell” which taught that reality teaches no absolutes. Lewis’ story shows that even if given a second chance (remember, it’s an allegory,not doctrine) people who go to hell would rather stay there than change their own views. Hell is an absolute and God, being omniscient, is just when He assigns the unbeliever to such a place. It is their own inward desire, they wanted nothing to do with Christ and His sacrificial work on their behalf. They would rather wallow in their own righteousness.

Purgatory is not a second chance and CS Lewis does not paint it that way.

 

[Pax]

exrc:

Des,
… Do you submit yourself completely to Gods word? If so, why are you Roman Catholic? You cannot be RC and submit to his word, this is an oxymoron. You stand in judgement like the pharisees.

Repent and believe Gods promises!

In love exrc

You are at it again with the most egregious comments. So much for your sign off [In love exrc]

 

[Pax]

exrc,

After all that has been shown to you through scripture, do you still believe in “once saved always saved.?”

 

[Pax]

MrS:

exrc:

His life is proof that believers shall live again also!

Greg, you are also welcome to partake in eternal life if you choose to believe his promises.

Forsake the whore that you follow.

Come out of her my beloved, he says!

QUOTE]

Your bio says you are not part of any religion… it shows. Religion means “relationship with God”.

He will open your eyes in His time. We all pray for that wonderful day of grace for you.

Another egregious remark from a loving Christian I presume.

 

[exrc]

Greg_McPherran:

Explain to me what the debt was and who it needed to be paid to and how His death paid it.

Greg,
Paul wrote that the wages of sin was death. His debt to you was death for the wages you earned(sin). Jesus stepped in and paid that debt, FOR, you. God owed Jesus life for obeying the law perfectly, he earned righteousness. However, his mission was to offer YOU, his, righteousness through his death. Therefore, paying your sin debt substitutionarily.

Come home to Jesus Greg!

We welcome you with open arms!

In love, exrc!

 

[MariaG]

Maria,
Once you believe that Jesus has paid for your salvation in full.
You will be able to appreciate the things which I am trying to convey. I do not seek to insult you, but set you free of sacramentalism. When Jesus said to the man who wanted to bury his dead relative, let the dead bury the dead, he wasn’t seeking to insult him , but reveal the truth. The truth hurts, but in the end it heals. A lie comforts, but in the end it kills. I am obligated to tell you the truth!

Hope you understand!

Des, I have just prayed that you will be delivered from the system that holds you in bondage.

In love exrc Dan!!!

Dear Dan,
Several things. First of all, I truly do thank you. I know you truly believe what you say, but you do not understand what the Catholic Church actually teaches. If the church taught what you thought it did, I truly would be in need of hearing the truth.

The problem is, you do not have a real understanding of that which you speak. I do believe Jesus has paid for my salvation in full. Set me free from Sacrementalism? Why would I wish to be set free from the visible miracles of God? Why would I wish to disobey my Lord and not go to confession as He proscribed in Jn 20:21-23? Why would I wish to reduce my marriage from a bonding from God to a piece of paper? Why would I wish to walk away from my Lord and His Real Presence like so many others choose to do Jn 6:35-71? Bondage? No! The Sacraments, the visible miracles Christ gave to us set us free!

I came from a Bible alone Church. I have no desire to return to an incomplete truth. You do have part of the truth. But the Bible tells us to hold fast to traditions whether oral or by letter (2 Thess 2:15). Where are the oral traditions in your church? The Bible tells us that the church is a pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim 3:15). When did this stop being true of the Catholic Church? And how can you say that without calling God a liar?

I do pray you actually read from your Bible the Scripture I quoted. I pray you actually read what I said without forming a rebuttal before you are done. But mostly I pray that God will lead you to all truth and deliver you from one of Satan’s greatest lies, the lie about the Catholic Church.

And Dan, I do understand. I repeat, if what you believed about the Catholic Church were true, I would need to be saved. However, you are simply wrong.

Your sister in Christ,
Maria

 

[Pax]

exrc:

Pax,
Jewish believers ,ARE, christians. So are gentile believers.What I was saying was that the book of life was a strictly Jewish concept, not gentile. They understood it to mean an earthly book which was kept by the scribes for taking census. There are also eschatalogical implications in these passages that none of us can be absolutely sure of.

You are not seeing the forest because the sapplings keep poking you in the eyes Pax.

The whole plan of Gods redemption from beginning to end is all about what God did for mankind not what mankind can do for him. The cross answers everything, but you do not understand its depth. Nor do you understand how sinful we really are, and how holy and just God is. If you did, you would accept his payment in full for your sins, and leave that abomination that glorifies mans works.

Repent, and come out of her Pax.

I would love to have you sing praises with me together in my congregation.

You are always welcome home to Jesus!

In love exrc

**L’shanah tovah tikatevu **

exrc,

I don’t know what you were trying to accomplish with this post other then to hurl a few more ugly insults.

You have in no way refuted even one word that was written to you and you have no refutation for the clear words of scripture. Your argument is not with me. I am only the messenger that is pointing out those things that are contained in Holy Scripture. Your argument is with scripture, not me.

 

[MrS]

Pax:

Another egregious remark from a loving Christian I presume.

Did you read the post before your comment… your bio makes it difficult to know if any post is not going to become egregious to you.

 

[Pax]

exrc:

Pax,
Jewish believers ,ARE, christians. So are gentile believers.What I was saying was that the book of life was a strictly Jewish concept, not gentile. They understood it to mean an earthly book which was kept by the scribes for taking census. There are also eschatalogical implications in these passages that none of us can be absolutely sure of.

…
In love exrc

**L’shanah tovah tikatevu **

The Book of Life is not simply a Jewish concept. The Book of Life in Scripture is not the book used by the scribes for taking a census. The census work you refer to is from Jewish practice and tradition that is unrelated to the OT scriptural passages that I cited.

The Book of Life is a Christian concept just as it is a Jewish concept. All believers will come to know of this concept through both the OT and NT. You apparently don’t wish to accept the clear meaning of the concept as presented in both testaments.

When you are frustrated by scriptural arguments from Catholics please refrain from making insulting remarks. Try accepting the fact that you’re wrong in these things.

 

[Greg_McPherran]

exrc:

Wrong!Again,Paul tells us that we are not saved by works of the Mosaic law in Eph.2:8.

exrc:

God owed Jesus life for obeying the law perfectly…

I thought you don’t believe in works of obeying the law.

 

[Katholikos]

exrc:

Des,
Do you submit yourself completely to Gods word? If so, why are you Roman Catholic? You cannot be RC and submit to his word, this is an oxymoron.

The criteria for the canon of Christian Scriptures was set by the Catholic Church. A writing had to meet all four tests in order to be accepted into the canon. The fourth criteria was that a writing had to conform to the teaching of the Catholic Church.

You are misreading the New Testament if you think it says one thing and the Church teaches another:tsktsk: .

Sola Scriptura (Scripture Alone), Sola Fide (Faith Alone), and Sola Gratia (Grace Alone) were doctrines inventented by Martin Luther. So was OSAS. There were no such doctrines taught by Jesus and the Apostles. These doctrines appear in the historical record only in and after the 16th century.

The Church did not come out of the New Testament – the NT came out of the Church! The NT was written by the leaders of the Catholic Church, and it reflects what the Church was teaching at the time it was written.

All Protestant churches are based upon a misinterpretation of Scripture.

I once was blind, but now I see.

To be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant, John Henry Newman, ex-Anglican clergyman and Catholic convert.

JMJ Jay
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!

 

[Des]

exrc:

Des,
If this story is completely accurate, then I would have to say that that this man has not completely submitted to the word of God. Which is the final authority on everything

Yes, he and the other 2 protestants that are for divorce, believe they have submitted to the Word of God. They always pray for the Holy Spirit, as i’m sure you do, to guide them when reading the Bible.

Do you submit yourself completely to Gods word?

Yes i have submitted to the Oral and Written Word of God.

Does a just man have to go to prison to pay a penalty?

A forgiven man can go to prison to pay a penalty due to his actions.

 

[Pax]

MrS:

Did you read the post before your comment… your bio makes it difficult to know if any post is not going to become egregious to you.

My remark is in reference to the statement, “Forsake the whore that you follow.”

That is an egregious remark and is offensive to Catholics. It would be equally offensive if made toward a Fundamentalist, a Pentecostal, a Methodist or whomever.

Am I missing something?

 

[Pax]

exrc:

Pax,
…
The whole plan of Gods redemption from beginning to end is all about what God did for mankind not what mankind can do for him. The cross answers everything, but you do not understand its depth. Nor do you understand how sinful we really are, and how holy and just God is. If you did, you would accept his payment in full for your sins, and leave that abomination that glorifies mans works.

…

In love exrc

**L’shanah tovah tikatevu **

exrc

As Catholics we know that salvation comes soley from God by way of Jesus death on the cross.

As Catholics we know that God does everything for us and that nothing is of ourselves. Every spiritual good comes by way of God’s love and grace.

As Catholics we fully understand our sinfulness and the need for repentence.

As Catholics we know how holy God is and how sinful we are. This is precisely why we fully accept the scriptural teachings concerning the confession of sin. We confess our sins even though it is uncomfortable and humbling for us to do so. It is something God requires of us and we therefore do His will.

As Catholics we are in awe of God’s love and mercy and fully realize just what was accomplished on the cross. We know that atonement, redemption, and forgiveness of our sins comes through Jesus and the cross.

As Catholics we know our church’s teachings and we know that the Catholic church in no way glorifies man’s works. Instead the Church rightly proclaims that all of the glory goes to God and that our works done in righteousness are by way of grace. Our works done in righteousness are through faith and grace. Our works done in righteousness are nothing less than the work of the Father’s hands in our hearts and lives.

As Catholics we know the power of grace. As Catholics we accept the words we read in Isaiah 55:11 where God says, “… .so shall my word be that goes forth from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and prosper in the thing for which I sent it.”

As Catholics we know that God’s grace goes out in power and that it is God’s grace working within us. We do nothing on our own. It is as we read in Galatians 2:20-21, " I have been crucified with Christ;** it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God**, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God; for if justification were through the law, then Christ died to no purpose."

As Catholics we know that there was no power in the law. Power and righteousness come through Jesus Christ.

As Catholics we believe and identify with Christ’s words to Paul in 2 Corinthians 12:9, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” And then Paul says, “I will all the more gladly boast of my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.”

For the Catholic it is all about Jesus Christ and the power of grace in our lives lest any man should boast.

 

[Pyrosapien]

I have come late to this thread and don’t really have the time to view it in it’s entirety. So if this has already been stated, please forgive me.

The theological error which is promoted by the simplistic tradition of men known as “eternal security” or “once saved always saved” is simply a symptom of the illness. The illness being a lack of fidelity to the authority of Christ which was invested in the Apostles.

Rebellion against God’s authority, wherever He has seen fit to invest it, has been man’s primary temptation since the beginning. We would do well to remember Christ’s prayer in the garden, “…yet not what I will, but what thou wilt.” As opposed to the predominant prayer of our age; Not what thou will, but what I will!

If you fear God’s authority on Earth then what makes you think you will embrace it after you die?

Steve

 

[peacemaker]

This is my first entrance into this forum. I am a presbyterian/charismatic/christian/baptist/orthodox?/catholic? that wants to search for the truth. It seems to me that most of the discussion of this thread is who is a christian? how does one know? and can you be sure? And of course where should you place your fellowship/membership/communion/association. I think that this was much of the question involved in the early church ie how do we know that the gentiles can be one of us? Perhaps being in a state of grace is as simple as having the Holy Spirit - whatever that means. Can I be a Christian if I have not received the gift? Once the Holy Spirit takes control of my life does He release His grip? Can Satan now grasp me out of His hand? I hope not. I rely on the saving power of God - take me and use me for your puposes and good works. Praise be to God from whom all blessings flow. I rely on Him to finish the work He started in me.

 

[Des]

Pax:

My remark is in reference to the statement, “Forsake the whore that you follow.”

That is an egregious remark and is offensive to Catholics. It would be equally offensive if made toward a Fundamentalist, a Pentecostal, a Methodist or whomever.

Am I missing something?

Your right Pax. This is quite offensive and if he keeps talking like that, he shouldn’t be surprised to find himself banned from this forum.

 

[Cubby]

Ozzie Quote: “First of all I am amazed at how delighted you were in thinking you found a loophole in God’s Word that you think defeats the sufficiency of Christ’s work on the cross to forever save the one who turns from unbelief to belief in Him”

I pray that one day you will understand the joy of serving Christ in the fullness of the faith, Ozzie.

Now here’s a thought for everyone who has been following this thread, and especially for Lisa (JesusFreak):

Charity flows forth from true believers without any effort. Read the postings carefully and take note of those which resonate charity and those which resonate hatred, prejudice, anger, grief, judgment, rudeness, pride, and self-centeredness.

Analyze this thread objectively and ask “Who’s sharing their faith out of love?”

Peace,

Cubby

 

[KLStevens]

exrc:

Do you submit yourself completely to Gods word? If so, why are you Roman Catholic? You cannot be RC and submit to his word, this is an oxymoron.

Obviously you have disregarded posts #782/783/785/788 and the many others that would help to clear up your ignorance on this matter.

Without Jesus’ Catholic Church you only have access to part of the deposit of faith.

NO WHERE IN SCRIPTURE DOES IT TELL US THAT ALL OF JESUS’ TEACHINGS ARE FOUND IN IT.

You keep missing the fact that there are MANY of Jesus’ teachings not contained in Scripture.

Your concept of Scripture ONLY as the basis for one’s faith DID NOT EXIST UNTIL THE REFORMATION!

Why do you disregard all the lines of Scripture that tell you that Scripture does not contain all about Jesus, that it is NOT THE MATTER OF ONE’S OWN INTERPRETATION, that THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES to our actions here on earth, that there is an actual Church, with a heirarchy and Apostolic Succession?
Last time I cheched I didn’t think you were ordained into that Succession so technically according to the Bible YOU HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO TEACH.

You are obviously not here to learn. The profanity you spew is quite telling about you as a person and your motivations.

May the Lord break down the wall of ignorance that surrounds you and allow you to overcome your guilt for having left His Church in search of your own personal god.

We’re here to help if you’d like it.
(Kinda like God’s gift of Salvation–its not yours if you keep refusing it)
Sincerely Yours In Christ,
KLStevens

PS: Keep resisting, you are only hurting yourself and quite franky sometimes giving us a good chuckle at your blatantly obvious misguided statements about Christ’s Bride–His Catholic Church!