I am Gay and Engaged, I would return to the Church if Francis would acquiesce

  • Thread starter Thread starter Zeldarocks2
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
It is important to recognize that the gospel is the same for everyone, whether gay, straight, black, white, rich or poor. The gospel does not discriminate. How it is fleshed out in our lives is what differs from person to person. And in the gospel Jesus says:

“If anyone is to be a disciple of mine, he must deny himself, take up his cross and follow me.” Luke 9:23

The concept of self-denial is a very foreign concept to our culture; our culture teaches us that we are defined by our desires. This is not the case. I know you believe that you have to must be with your fiancee in order to be happy. Jesus wants more than happiness for you: Jesus wants you to find joy. Lasting joy. And that is what we want for you on this forum.

I encourage you to watch this film:
everlastinghills.org/movie/

I also want to give a thumbs up to the Catholics on this thread who have responded so authentically, quoting scripture and church teaching. Way to go.
 
Praying for you.

Prayer of Affirmation

I am loved by God;
I am made by God;
I am forgiven by God;
I am accepted by God unconditionally;
I am a child of God;
I am sustained by God;
I am important to God;
I am used by God;
I am enabled by God;
I am destined for God.

Amen.
 
All sinners.are welcome to the church. God loves everybody and that is why the church is a hospital for sinners. However what the church won’t and can’t do is condone sin. The mission of the church is also to tell us what we are doing wrong so we can repent and convert our life to Jesus. So yes you are welcome in the church but the church will never condone sin. Remember too that Jesus specifically said that we have to love him more than our parents, brother or sister. You cAnnot impose conditions to God “either you accept my sin or I won’t go to the church” because in the end you are only hurting yourself. We are creatures and are very limited so we must trust God and follow him without conditions.
 
Stylteralmaldo said:
I don’t think DaddyGirl is Catholic. Yes, sin makes Jesus sad. Homosexual actions, like any sinful actions, makes Jesus sad because as Christians we understand that when He sees us hurt ourselves, He is unhappy. It’s a natural human emotion to be sad when a loved one hurts themselves. Jesus is human. He knows what it means to experience sorrow when someone He deeply cares about is hurting themsleves through what they are doing to themselves. Christians can grasp this concept because we understand that Jesus is not only God, but also human. Non-Christians should ask, and continue to ask these questions until hopefully some day they understand that Jesus is both fully God and fully man. To grasp this reality is truly wonderful. I pray everyone some day will also grasp this reality. 🙂
Click to expand...
Well, she was raised Orthodox, and she’s posting advice on a Catholic site.
It just puzzles me as to why. 🤷
 
The very premise of your post, OP, and an attitude I see among many, is that the Church must do as you wish before you will come back–and therefore it should do what you say, because it should want *you *back.

This is like saying you’ll only join a soccer club if they make 15 foot wide goals, while someone else insists they’ll only join the club if they use 4 foot wide goals. Now which of you are they supposed to accommodate…and why?

**** Is there a reason your desires are more important than everybody else’s?***

Better yet, imagine a third person says they’ll only play soccer if the club adds small white balls and putters, and a fourth will only join if the game is played in a lake underwater, while a fifth insists there must be horses involved. But they’re all still determined to call it soccer. At this point, the game they’re playing may be satisfying to all of them–if the club can even find a way to accommodate everyone–but it’s no longer soccer. And what happens when the sixth refuses to play unless it’s back on dry land and only if it’s played with zebras because he hates horses?

What you’re asking for is a sort of spiritual social club that calls itself Catholic and does what *you *want.

**** If you got what you want, you’d find you’re not actually joining the Catholic Church, anyway. Because it simply wouldn’t be the Catholic Church anymore.***

I truly feel for you. But this attitude, which is fairly common today, isn’t any different from my child saying he won’t come to dinner unless I serve cake and ice cream for dinner. My answer is, no, I’m going to serve the food your body needs to be healthy. And he’s the one who’s going to go hungry, for refusing to eat.

**** If you got what you wanted, you would eventually realize you are not fulfilled or growing from this ‘meal’ you insisted on having.***
 
Zeldarocks2 said:
This probably condemns me in the eyes of many in this forum, but I don’t care…

I am Gay, and I am engaged to the most loving man on the planet; though there might not be Sexual Complementarity, I believe there to be Emotional Complementarity.

The Church’s attitude toward Homosexual unions (not talking about marriage but sexual cohabitation) has alienated me, and driven me from the Church and from the Gospel.

I would gladly return to the Church, to the Eucharist, and to Our Lord and our Lady if Pope Francis were to acquiesce; I’m not asking him to bless Same-sex marriage, I’m asking him to compromise, to welcome the LGBT community as they are, whether they be in relationships or not.
Click to expand...
So the church should accept cohabitation for homosexuals, but not cohabitation for heterosexuals? Why should there be special privileges for one group and not the other?

Or should the church just accept cohabitation in general, thus throwing out the importance of marriage in general? Maybe they can even follow the world and say children don’t really need both a father and mother.

Or we can stick to what both christ and evolution teach us-- sex is not just for relationships or for pleasure, but is also for procreation. Marriage evolved from human pair bonding in order to join children to their parents.

We all have temptations that our sinful proclivities would desire to indulge in. We’re made saintly by purifying them. Yours may be your sexuality, others may have something else. We all have something sinful within us. It’s part of the fall and being imperfect. To this, Christ told us to pick up our cross and follow Him.
 
DaddyGirl said:
Forgive me, but…I have to ask you: How do you know that homosexual actions makes Jesus sad??

.
Click to expand...
Because they are a gross violation of the nature of the human person, and of the human person’s physiology. As the creator, in tandem with God the father and the Holy Spirit, intentional misuse of the human body would naturally sadden Jesus.

To the OP, this is the height of Pride and Arrogance. You have no right to make demands of the Pope, and are basically demanding the Church bend to suit your personal desires, rather than acknowledging that God knows better than you in His guidance of the faith. Moral law cannot be rejected without consequence, and you would do well to learn that.

Emotional complimentary is, frankly, a very small aspect of a true relationship. Emotions fade, as will yours. Love is an act of the will, and has proper expressions and limits. If you truly love your partner, you desire what is best for him. Actively promoting a gravely-sinful act is not what is in his best interest, nor yours; quite the contrary, it is the height of selfishness and hatred to ignore the objective eternal consequences of your decisions in order to enjoy temporal Earthly pleasures.
 
Do not follow the ways of the world. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. The battle is with your soul. All of the posts above make valid points.
 
My condolences, OP. Really!

But in all fairness, returning to the sacraments requires that one repent of one’s sins, not continue enjoying them. That includes everybody.

Adulterous and fornicative relationships must also be set aside in repentance, however much they are enjoyed, or emotionally depended upon. What you are running into is hard, but not unfair.

Often, those who are remarried are readmitted to the Sacraments, on condition that they live as “brother and sister.” Would you be willing to do that?

You say you are not asking for gay marriage, but by demanding readmission to the Sacraments with a gay fiancé, that is really what you are demanding.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA.
 
Zeldarocks2 said:
…

The Church’s attitude toward Homosexual unions (not talking about marriage but sexual cohabitation) has alienated me, and driven me from the Church and from the Gospel.

What has alienated you is your rejection of the Truth the Church is commissioned to teach. That is your choice.

I would gladly return to the Church, to the Eucharist, and to Our Lord and our Lady if Pope Francis were to acquiesce;

So, instead of preaching the Truth, you want the Pope to deny it. And commit the scandal of leading others into sin. You wish to deny God’s authority, and have the Pope join you.

I’m not asking him to bless Same-sex marriage, I’m asking him to compromise, to welcome the LGBT community as they are, whether they be in relationships or not.

He has welcomed the LGBTQ community. However, he does so while continuing to uphold the Truth the Church has been entrusted to teach.
Click to expand...
What puzzles me, is folks who believe the Church is wrong-- yet instead of finding an organization or Church that concurs on their position, they want the Church to change.

Why do you want to be Catholic if we’re wrong about same-sex sexual relationships? If we’re wrong on that, we could be wrong on many other points of doctrine. I personally wouldn’t struggle to join an organization I believe was wrong about something fundamental to me.

I believe the Church was entrusted by Christ to teach the Truth. That I need to accept that Truth, even when it is hard or inconvenient for me. Like not being able to divorce and remarry when abandoned by a spouse. In fact, the Church holding to doctrine and Christ’s giving it authority and assurance He would lead it into all Truth are the reason I accept Christianity and the Bible as scripture. If the Church were to ever reverse itself on doctrine-- I would reject Christianity.

Your issue isn’t with the Pope. Your issue is with Christ, if the Catholic Church is in fact the Church established by Him.

May the peace of Christ be with you and yours always.
 
Zeldarocks2 said:
This probably condemns me in the eyes of many in this forum, but I don’t care…

I am Gay, and I am engaged to the most loving man on the planet; though there might not be Sexual Complementarity, I believe there to be Emotional Complementarity.

The Church’s attitude toward Homosexual unions (not talking about marriage but sexual cohabitation) has alienated me, and driven me from the Church and from the Gospel.

I would gladly return to the Church, to the Eucharist, and to Our Lord and our Lady if Pope Francis were to acquiesce; I’m not asking him to bless Same-sex marriage, I’m asking him to compromise, to welcome the LGBT community as they are, whether they be in relationships or not.
Click to expand...
I think you should read what you titled this thread carefully, and examine what it means.

The Church is our teacher, passing on truth to us that it has received from God. You are asking the Church to submit to you rather than to God. You use the word “alienated.” An alien is an outsider, correct?

I’m not denying that your situation is very hard. Certainly it is. But the Church has not alienated you by preaching the same truth it has for thousands of years. By rejecting the teaching the Church has received from God, you have made yourself alien to the Church, but as in the parable of Prodigal Son, you can always come back.

But you have to come back. What you are asking, your “compromise”, is for the Church to lie. To say that your actions are not alienating you from God’s teaching when they are. A sin is exactly a choice of one’s own desires over God’s. What you are asking is for the Church to “compromise” and say that that is ok.

The Church does accept you as you are, with all of your desires and tendencies. But your actions are not you, and it cannot say that what you do is fine when it is not. You may feel alienated, but the proper way to address this is not to try to paper over that feeling with warm and fuzzy acceptance words without addressing the cause, but to address the fact that you are alien by calling you back to the full truth that God has given His Church.
 
Zeldarocks2 said:
This probably condemns me in the eyes of many in this forum, but I don’t care…

I am Gay, and I am engaged to the most loving man on the planet; though there might not be Sexual Complementarity, I believe there to be Emotional Complementarity.

The Church’s attitude toward Homosexual unions (not talking about marriage but sexual cohabitation) has alienated me, and driven me from the Church and from the Gospel.

I would gladly return to the Church, to the Eucharist, and to Our Lord and our Lady if Pope Francis were to acquiesce; I’m not asking him to bless Same-sex marriage, I’m asking him to compromise, to welcome the LGBT community as they are, whether they be in relationships or not.
Click to expand...
You say you “don’t care”, but if so, why then are you here?

I think your last sentence is skewed thinking… I’m pretty sure that the church accepts anyone as they are- Masturbation is a sin also- regarded just as damnable as homosexuality as it is a mortal sin but you don’t see people beating down the doors of the church saying I’ll come back as long as you accept that I want to masturbate! They don’t have to, there are plenty of masturbaters (and ex-masturbators) sitting in the pews! There are also some who are committing adultery, but that doesn’t stop them from going to Mass every Sunday.

So why is your homosexuality your excuse to “damn” the church for keeping you out from hearing the Gospel? Seriously! (are you frickin’ kidding me?) Why? Why are you crying here other than to be accepted, because you don’t* feel *accepted? If everyone’s sins were broadcasted telepathically to one another in church, I’m pretty sure NONE of us would be very accepting of each other. (It only takes one grievous sin to make people naturally disgusted by another, after all!)

You are wanting something you can’t have and that is compromise with the truth, but that can never bet the excuse for keeping you out of the pews because the truth is there are plenty of other sinners sitting in the pews wanting the gosh darn same thing! Some of them are the ones SAYING THE MASS! (shock horror, no one jump on me for saying the truth!) But sitting in a church every Sunday and being able to hear the Gospels is not what makes you "good"or accepted, its following God’s word and His Truth- something that never changes in time… Besides we are not to seek MAN’S approval but God’s.

Everyone has that choice to listen and then follow God or not. That choice has some pretty painful circumstances to follow sometimes- like giving up something we like that pleases us. Sin has its hook and once rooted, its difficult to weed out. Everyone’s got their temptation and/or blindspot they need to work on. We will each get what is due to us and what we put in. Church is not about ‘social acceptance’…** its about Jesus Christ and doing what He said to do and being with others who are strongly wanting to do that… nothing else. **
 
KEP1983 said:
So the church should accept cohabitation for homosexuals, but not cohabitation for heterosexuals? Why should there be special privileges for one group and not the other?

Or should the church just accept cohabitation in general, thus throwing out the importance of marriage in general? Maybe they can even follow the world and say children don’t really need both a father and mother.

Or we can stick to what both christ and evolution teach us-- sex is not just for relationships or for pleasure, but is also for procreation. Marriage evolved from human pair bonding in order to join children to their parents.

We all have temptations that our sinful proclivities would desire to indulge in. We’re made saintly by purifying them. Yours may be your sexuality, others may have something else. We all have something sinful within us. It’s part of the fall and being imperfect. To this, Christ told us to pick up our cross and follow Him.
Click to expand...
Here’s how I see it: If the Church will now take divorcees on a case by case basis, why not homosexuals in cohabiting relationships? It’s all the same in the eyes of the Church anyway, neither of the two groups are in a legitimate relationship.
 
Zeldarocks2 said:
Here’s how I see it: If the Church will now take divorcees on a case by case basis, why not homosexuals in cohabiting relationships? It’s all the same in the eyes of the Church anyway, neither of the two groups are in a legitimate relationship.
Click to expand...
The difference is that while a fornicative relationship resulting from divorce can, in some cases, be “regularized” vis-a-vis the Church and its sacraments, homosexual activities can never be. They are categorically wrong, full stop.

ICXC NIKA
 
Zeldarocks2 said:
Here’s how I see it: If the Church will now take divorcees on a case by case basis, why not homosexuals in cohabiting relationships? It’s all the same in the eyes of the Church anyway, neither of the two groups are in a legitimate relationship.
Click to expand...
Why do you think they would allow divorced Catholics on a case by case basis? Sure, a few of the synod bishops suggested that, but a synod document is a far cry from doctrine.

Also, there is a big, big difference between a divorced and civilly remarried Catholic and so-called “gay marriage.” The latter will always be significantly worse because it rejects the very foundation of natural marriage, and the core purpose behind the sacrament.
 
Whatever anyone says here in this thread, know OP, that you have not erred in deciding to share your thoughts with us here in this thread. You have done a very good thing by opening up your thoughts for discussion and debate, and I hope that you will get the answer that will leave you at peace with God and yourself. I’m not great at convincing, so know that I am praying for you. I know it’s not easy.
 
Zeldarocks2 said:
Here’s how I see it: If the Church will now take divorcees on a case by case basis, why not homosexuals in cohabiting relationships? It’s all the same in the eyes of the Church anyway, neither of the two groups are in a legitimate relationship.
Click to expand...
This is a false statement.

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/cardinal-pell-on-the-synod-the-final-report-and-decentralization/#ixzz3pieGaj6Q
The headlines in some Italian newspapers, and an Irish website, implied the Church was now allowing all remarried divorcees to receive Holy Communion on a case-by-case basis. What’s your view of this?
Click to expand...
That is completely unjustified. There is nothing in the document to justify that, and the Polish bishops came out today I believe to say very explicitly that such an understanding is not justified by the text. Now you might like the text or dislike it. You might think it’s good, bad or indifferent, but at least let us read it accurately and justly, and judge it on its own terms. So those headlines are inaccurate and misleading. They’ve probably been fed a line. I’m not sure there was or is an official English text so there’s some excuse for them misunderstanding it, but such headlines are not justified. People should go to those paragraphs and judge for themselves.
Click to expand...
 
Zeldarocks2: I was in your position years ago. I made the choice that you are currently contemplating. I left the Church and lived with the man I “loved” for 8 years. Oddly enough, it didn’t go the way I thought it would. What the Church teaches is the truth of Jesus Christ. Your relationship with Jesus is the only one that leads to happiness and fulfillment. I had to learn that lesson the hard way. Trust someone who’s been there and done that, you don’t want to go down that road. It’s much easier simply to not choose that path, than it is to turn around and come back after you’ve already been going in that direction.

But if you do, always remember that Jesus loves you very much, and that he and his Church will always welcome you back with open arms.

If you haven’t watched the documentary Desire of the Everlasting Hills, I strongly recommend that you do so. everlastinghills.org/
 
Zeldarocks2 said:
Here’s how I see it: If the Church will now take divorcees on a case by case basis, why not homosexuals in cohabiting relationships? It’s all the same in the eyes of the Church anyway, neither of the two groups are in a legitimate relationship.
Click to expand...
Divorcees are man and woman. That’s the big matter here. Two men can’t naturally marry nor can two women. It’s impossible.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top