I am Gay and Engaged, I would return to the Church if Francis would acquiesce

  • Thread starter Thread starter Zeldarocks2
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
odhiambo said:
This has nothing to do with the Pope you know; he does not have the authority to “acquiesce” as you put it.
Click to expand...
Not only that, but it seems unfair to ask any Catholic to abandon the faith committed to the Church by Christ so that one can indulge ones sensual pleasures. If one wants to relinquish eternal life so that one can please oneself in this life, why should others be dragged into it?

Everyone has the choice to follow Christ or “acquiesce” and fall into disobedience. Taking others with you into disobedience only complicates the sin.
 
styrgwillidar said:
What puzzles me, is folks who believe the Church is wrong-- yet instead of finding an organization or Church that concurs on their position, they want the Church to change.

Why do you want to be Catholic if we’re wrong about same-sex sexual relationships? If we’re wrong on that, we could be wrong on many other points of doctrine. I personally wouldn’t struggle to join an organization I believe was wrong about something fundamental to me.
Click to expand...
I think this attitude is especially prevalent in America because our country is founded on an attitude of rebellion. We are brought up in a culture and belief system that, if the authority over us is not meeting our needs we can revolt and use force to establish an authority that caters to us. It is part of the “Don’t Tread On Me” mentality.

People have developed the aberrant notion that the Church is a democracy, not a theocracy, and that the tail should be wagging the dog.🤷
 
BornInMarch said:
It is understandable of you feel alienated from the church because of their policies.

But Please Please Please don’t feel alienated from God Himself because of this. If you’re not comfortable going to church, at least pray at home or read the bible. There are some catholic theologians who support homosexual

There are few things more heartbreaking than when someone renounces God and becomes an Atheist because of other human’s actions [the only reasonable reason for losing faith in God Himself is “I can’t see the evidence”; the actions of other humans shouldn’t enter into it].
Click to expand...
While I agree with you that no one should allow themselves to be separated from God because they are hurt by another person, I think this is not the case here.

It is not a church “policy” but the teachings of Jesus that are being disputed here. Jesus makes no separation between Himself, and His One Body, the Church. He is not reacting to “other human actions” but against the commandments of God, which are held and taught by the Church. In such a case, separation from the Church constitutes separation from God.
 
Zeldarocks2 said:
I merely wish that the Hierarchy would stop obsessing about these issues. I wish that they would take a “Don’t ask, Don’t tell” approach to sexuality in general, let that be a matter of individual conscience in the heart of the believer.
Click to expand...
Yet you want to be openly married in the Catholic Church? How is that “don’t ask, don’t tell”? I wish gays would quit flaunting their homosexuality too, but you can’t have your cake and eat it too!
 
I may only be able to have natural children if my wife and I go through with IVF. I have a great love in me that I am burning to share with my children, to start a family, to raise them in the Catholic faith. It’s overwhelming sometimes. But that does not give me the right to have children at any cost. I cannot redefine the moral law or personhood to suit my needs, to justify using IVF. This may not be what I would choose of my own will. In fact, I suffer for it. But we are called to bear our crosses. Being faithful doesn’t mean we get what we desire most (unless what we desire most is being with God).

The marital act has a function that is both unitative and procreative. This is what it’s biologically ordered towards (especially the procreative part) in humans. Sex that denies either of these aspects is not in accord with what it’s ordered towards. It’s also consistently condemned in the Bible. I’m not sure it’s possible to just say the “Church got it wrong,” unless you don’t believe in the Church. Being faithful to God requires us to endure painful things, live the moral law even when it feeps inconvenient, suffer embarrassment, mocking, scorn, and injury. It even calls us to place being Christian above those we love most in this world. Our desires can be disordered. I don’t mean that with all the negative connotation it usually implies. What I mean is that we can prioritize things wrong, and in thinking we act out of love we can do grave things, or even reject God entirely.
 
guanophore said:
I think this attitude is especially prevalent in America because our country is founded on an attitude of rebellion…
Click to expand...
Well, it may be more prevalent in America right now, but I think it’s a feature of human nature. The Old Testament is a history of a people who rebel against God over and over, and He welcomes them back over and over after a time and some suffering on their part. Even in Jesus teaching on marriage He indicates God allowed divorce, not because it was consistent with His desires for His people, but because of their stubbornness and hard-headedness.
 
Whether you are part of a gay union or not, God loves you and I do not think there is any problem with you re-entering into the church. Being part of a gay union to receive the same legal rights as heterosexuals like the right of inheritance, visitation rights, rights if you were to adopt a child, and tax and medicare benefits is not against God or His teaching at all. What the church does not want to do is encourage sexual behaviors between two men or two women. The Church is afraid that if they bless or support these gay unions, they will be supporting biblical marriage for gays and are afraid that it will encourage immoral sexual behaviors and mortal sin. The job of God’s Church is to teach people how to get closer with Jesus; not how to separate ourselves from Him. If you are gay and are attracted to a man that is fine but just make sure that you follow the Lord’s commandments, live how He calls each of us to live, and make sure you don’t let your relationship lead you away from the ways of Christ and into sin. I think if you discussed your eagerness to rejoin the Church with a member of the clergy, they would be very glad. Even if you are gay and are attracted to another man, there is no reason you should be excluded from the Church. Being a homosexual can be a great burden in life and a difficult cross to bear but always remember that God can bring good from all things and he hopes that you may overcome the challenges and struggles of homosexuality through Him. Remember to live how God calls each and every one of us to live and pray to Him. By doing this my friend, you will surely find true fulfillment in your life, all through Jesus Christ Our Lord and Redeemer.

God Bless,
coolcolin03 👍
 
DaddyGirl said:
Forgive me, but…I have to ask you: How do you know that homosexual actions makes Jesus sad??

.
Click to expand...
I looked the word “sad” in the Catholic Concordance, and the Strong Concordance, and they made no reference to Jesus being sad. But sad and sorrowful are synonyms, and there are plenty of references to sorrowful. One outstanding one is when Jesus was in the Garden Gethsemane (Mat: 26, -38, and Mrk l4: 34) he said “…my soul is sorrowful even unto death…” He wept over Jerusalem when He contemplated it’s downfall by the Romans. He wept at the tomb of Lazarus Jesus was like us in every way except sin, He was fully human and divine-God-man Homosexual actions are immoral actions, regarded as sinful. This is not to accuse one that practices such action of sin, for only God can judge the state of a soul. It is believed that when Jesus was contemplating His sufferings in the Garden, His perspiration became as drops of blood. It is believed that in spite of all He was to suffer, there would be some who would not avail themselves of His love and salvation, and those would be those who were in the state of sin. Homosexual acts are sinful in themselves and this is pointed out in Catholic belief, and in Natural law, so there is some real concern as to the actual state of one’s soul who performs these practices. It is not a natural act, as well as an immoral act, against Natural law and Supernatural law.
 
Your duty to God comes first. I hope you grow to realize that someday. Peace. :angel1:
 
Prayer_Warrior said:
Your sin is no worse than mine was when I first heard the gospel. I was guilty of grave sexual sin before I came into the Church. I am not any better than you and I am still a sinner, but the difference is that I recognized the grave sin I was in and repented of it. What I say next is not condemnation. But, according the the Scripture I must speak truth to my brothers and sisters in Christ and I am called to correct you. If I did not, it would be a sin on me (Lv 19:17). Even though it’s popular to call us “haters” when we try to correct, it is really an act of love to correct. So I speak the truth of the Scripture as an act of love, not condemnation.

The world will tell you that homosexual acts are not a sin, but the Scriptures repeatedly attest to the opposite. Do you believe in the truth of the Scripture? Jesus’ first words of His public ministry were “This is the time of fulfillment. The kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel” Mk 1:15. You have to understand what sin is in order to repent from it and that is where “the world” has gone terribly astray. The “world” has exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator (cf Rm1:25). Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness.(Is 5:20) Those (non-Catholic) Christian communities, that ignore the Scriptural truth on grave sin, repentance, and the life to which we Christians are called are not doing sinners any favors. Please consider prayerfully reading the Scriptures, not only the ones that I’ve included, but the Bible in its fullness. Ask the Lord to help you see where the sin is in your life and help you to repent. Jesus died for our sins but He only gives the promise of eternal life to those sheep who hear His voice and follow (cf John 10:28).

Many people boast of the freedom they have in Jesus not to be “rule bound” as the Jews were under the law. But if you use your freedom wrongly to sin, you will become enslaved to sin, and then where has your freedom gone?
Click to expand...
Well said.

A fellow sinner.
 
Zeldarocks2 said:
I merely wish that the Hierarchy would stop obsessing about these issues. I wish that they would take a “Don’t ask, Don’t tell” approach to sexuality in general, let that be a matter of individual conscience in the heart of the believer.
Click to expand...
The Church can’t do that, because as with every other sin, sins of sexual behavior will block the path to life eternal unless repented.

The Church’s mission is not to float downriver with everybody. It is to mark the navigation lane. And that means that all of us will at times, see that we are headed the wrong way!

ICXC NIKA.
 
Zeldarocks2 said:
At the end, I must follow my conscience, and my conscience tells me that the Church got it wrong.
Click to expand...
Your conscience is not your feelings (a mistake many make), and if you want the Church to charge core teachings to accommodate sin, it’s also not correctly formed. I honestly do not know why you would want the Church on one hand to change its teachings, yet see value in remaining in an organization which would cave so readily to the zeitgeist. Homosexual activity is inherently disordered, as is adultery, fornication, and a host of other things, and trying to redefine these to be acceptable is no more or no less than trying to change the nature of truth, truth itself being defined by God. For that matter, suggesting the Church got it wrong basically brings into question that everything else the Church teaches.

At the end of the day, you ultimately have to decide if you want to live a sinful life (and afterlife) apart from God, or accept that you cannot have things as you want them to be, and understand that this is your cross to bear. It also does not mean you cannot have a celibate relationship with your partner and still be part of the Church (I don’t think there’s any teachings to the contrary, if I remember).
 
There was one other point I was going to make and forgot about – if we want the Church to meet us on our terms and accommodate our lifestyles, views, ideas, or practices, there is no real difference between this and what led to the division of Protestantism in the first place. Henry the 8th wanted a divorce, didn’t get it, so he took his ball and went home. Likewise, those who are rejecting the Church because of views on contemporary social issues are really pretty much doing the same thing.
 
I see the OP has decided to return to the Catholic Church. Does this mean the engagement is off?
 
I just talked to my priest, he basically told me that as long as I don’t have sex, that I can live with him and continue my relationship.

He even said I could get a civil marriage, though the Church would not recognize it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top