I am thinking of becoming a Baptist..

[Always_For_Him]

It is funny that you should mention George Tiller. I live in the same city and it is amazing what he has been able to get away with. The people who are fighting for him, helping him, are also church going people.

Human beings WILL eventually gravitate towards selfishness, doing the selfish or most convenient thing when it is convenient for them to do so. I am shocked how any Christian scan think that abortion is OK. It might be legal, but that is not what we need to worry about. Morally, it is against God’s Will. Isn’t that what we should all be striving to accomplish - God’s Will?

Anyway, it just seems that for most Protestant’s they were never taught the entire Truth, the entire history, and don’t know enough of it to see clearly through the error. For Catholic’s who have left the faith, apparently, they didn’t care enough about their faith to learn it or abide by it and followed the easier path at some other church. OSAS, Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, those are all man-made, 16th Century doctrine that did not come from Apostolic teaching and are easier to follow. Man will always get in there and goof it up. That is why we know that Jesus knew that and established His Church and gave it His Authority and Divine Guidance to keep it free from error.

Nicole, I can’t possibly know what you are going through. I absolutely know though that you will make it. Thinks aren’t always easy and don’t always happen the way we want them to or when we want them to. BUT, you have to be quite and patient and HEAR what God is trying to tell you, and teach you. I understand the fellowship and Protestant churches is amazing. The entertainment is amazing. It can help you in some ways gain a relationship with God. But, it seems like you already have that. You just need a deeper one. The fellowship and entertainment won’t do that for you. You need to pray from the bottom of your soul for God to reveal His plan for you. Be patient. Work on your annullment. It seems like yours would be a case for one. Get involved in a Bible Study in your parish. I know a lot of parishes are doing them. I am going to a great one presented by Jeff Cavins (DVD). You ARE in Christ’s Church. You need to apply yourself to learning just how deep and rich it is. You are young, and there is MUCH to learn. Be patient! I will pray for you. Did I say, be patient!!!

 

[MariaG]

Millions and millions of joyful and obedient Christians can’t be all wrong, especially when they are surrounded by so many excellent Bible scholars and teachers. These Baptists may look threatening to the RCC, but what you need to focus on is following the fruit and the joy!

God Bless, Nicole

And so what does make Catholics? Do you think Catholics are not obedient Christians? Christians at all? Christian but wrong? Not bible scholars? No fruit in the Catholic Church?

Either you think Catholics are not really Christians or your logic is flawed. Which is it?

 

[broski234]

Millions and millions of joyful and obedient Christians can’t be all wrong, especially when they are surrounded by so many excellent Bible scholars and teachers. These Baptists may look threatening to the RCC, but what you need to focus on is following the fruit and the joy!

God Bless, Nicole

Yes, a billion strong. You want to talk about excellent bible scholars! Try Augustine, Jerome, Aquinas, ring a bell. You can thank Catholics for that bible and for the many universities that this country has.

 

[mlz]

I have to admit that I am uncomfortable with the many sacastic remarks and very condescending tones of dialogue within this forum in response to this thread question.

We really don’t have to be sarcastic, I agree. Speak in love. I believe the Lord is not pleased when he hears his children speaking in this way.(I know I do when my adult children get “nasty” when they differ on something)
Blessings to all you precious brothers and sisters in our Precious Lord and Savior!
mlz

 

[nbtb1348]

1.1 Billion Catholics can’t all be wrong,especially when they’re surrounded by the True Church founded by Christ in 33AD and fed by an infallible shepard the successor of Peter,the Servant of the Servants of God.
These Catholics have the whole body of Scripture,all 72 books,not the Reader’s Digest version of Protestantism.In addition these Catholics have Holy Apostolic Tradition which these Scriptures came from as well as an inerrant Magisterium or Teaching Authority guaranteed by Christ and forever protected by the Holy Spirit.These Catholics also eat LIFE at God’s own command in obedience to his Teaching and Commandment.Truly the Fruit and the Joy.

The Baptist sects founded by men like John Smith in 1606AD are insignificant compared to the glory and truth of the ONLY Church founded by GOD HIMSELF.The only threat these Baptist sects pose are to their own adherants who are being led into error.

I will pray for your discernment Nicole.
You get a whole rosary tonight.

Have you taken a good look inside the RCC lately?

 

[nbtb1348]

You know, George Tiller is a Protestant… saved by faith and not by works…?

I have no clue who you are talking about. But I can tell you there are a lot of people who say they are saved that aren’t. Just like there are a lot of priests who don’t act like Jesus.

 

[Matariel]

Have you taken a good look inside the RCC lately?

Actually, we look at it all the time-- we’re a part of it!

Oh, and by the way I wouldn’t recommend joining some of the larger Baptist sects, during the 70’s, some of them, such as the Southern Baptists wavered on abortion.

 

[Matariel]

I have no clue who you are talking about. But I can tell you there are a lot of people who say they are saved that aren’t. Just like there are a lot of priests who don’t act like Jesus.

And there’re many more that are saintly, godly men.

 

[diggingdeeper]

And there’re many more that are saintly, godly men.

And guys, the veracity of doctrine is neither proved nor disproved by the behavior of those who espouse it. Only Scripture can do that. The teachings of any pope or council are judged by the words of Scripture.

 

[vera_dicere]

I have no clue who you are talking about. But I can tell you there are a lot of people who say they are saved that aren’t. Just like there are a lot of priests who don’t act like Jesus.

AKA “Tiller the Killer” a late term abortionist who not only offers “post abortion baby baptisms” but is an elder at his local CHRISTIAN church.

Protestants often mention that simply accepting Jesus as your Lord and saviour will save you, but then if said person doesn’t “live” a christain life they are not really saved. So of course, what is defined as a “christain” life?

This is a gaping flaw in protestant logic - if a person says they are saved, by the logic of “faith not works” they are saved, regardless of how many unborn children they slaughter.

If good acts dont’ matter, then neither do horrific ones when one claims faith alone saves!

 

[Matariel]

AKA “Tiller the Killer” a late term abortionist who not only offers “post abortion baby baptisms” but is an elder at his local CHRISTIAN church.

Protestants often mention that simply accepting Jesus as your Lord and saviour will save you, but then if said person doesn’t “live” a christain life they are not really saved. So of course, what is defined as a “christain” life?

This is a gaping flaw in protestant logic - if a person says they are saved, by the logic of “faith not works” they are saved, regardless of how many unborn children they slaughter.

If good acts dont’ matter, then neither do horrific ones when one claims faith alone saves!

Well, let’s not get off-topic…

And guys, the veracity of doctrine is neither proved nor disproved by the behavior of those who espouse it.

Good point.

Only Scripture can do that. The teachings of any Pope or council are judged by the words of Scripture.

Eh… where do you get the notion that the holy Scriptures are in competition with the Holy Father or any Œcumenical Council?

 

[Always_For_Him]

And guys, the veracity of doctrine is neither proved nor disproved by the behavior of those who espouse it. Only Scripture can do that. The teachings of any pope or council are judged by the words of Scripture.

I am gonna split hairs a little on this one… Both Scripture and doctrine ARE the teachings and the practice of the Catholic Church. They can only be proven or disproven if they are understood in precise meaning and context in which they were written. Since it was the ECF’s of the Catholic Church who taught it and wrote it, and have maintained it for 2,000 years through the magisterium, no non-Catholic is going to be able to prove anything from the Catholic Church’s Scripture. I find it amazing that non-Catholics can take OUR teachings, Our Bible and change it, proof text, personally interpret it, and then tell us what they think it means.

 

[Matariel]

I am gonna split hairs a little on this one… Both Scripture and doctrine ARE the teachings and the practice of the Catholic Church. They can only be proven or disproven if they are understood in precise meaning and context in which they were written. Since it was the ECF’s of the Catholic Church who taught it and wrote it, and have maintained it for 2,000 years through the magisterium, no non-Catholic is going to be able to prove anything from the Catholic Church’s Scripture. I find it amazing that non-Catholics can take OUR teachings, Our Bible and change it, proof text, personally interpret it, and then tell us what they think it means.

I have to say, I quite agree. :yup:

 

[Always_For_Him]

Before any of you non-Catholics on this thread launch into all the changes the Church has made, I want to say that there have been none. It has remained the same. Look at the Pashida and the Catechism, when were they originally written? We hold true today to the same teachings today as we did then. Since the Catholic Church is the one that understood the teachings we wrote into Scripture, (through the protection and guidance of the Holy Spirit) we also, for 2,000 years (through the grace of the Holy Spirit), have been given a deeper understanding of only a few things, ie, the Trinity. To teach it more fully, is not the same as rewriting to change the meaning, ommitting teachings and books of the BIble, adding words that change the entire meaning, teach personal interpretation and feeling as Truth, etc… Jesus gave His Authority and promise to guide ONLY to the Apostles. Not to each and every one of us humans. Who else do you think was standing there accepting Jesus’ Authority or applyng Jesus’ promise to guide and protect His Church from error to themselves? Jesus was founding His Church on those 12 men and gave His promise to guide and protect ONLY those men from teaching error to protect His Church, not, not us individuals. Can’t you see that for over 1500 years the Christians KNEW where the Authority was and to not self interpret? They knew to hold true to the teachings and traditions that were taught to them by the Church. Luther and his buddies came along thinking they knew better and changed everything. Just so you can recognize how man will always continue to damage on their own, beliefs and teachings of the sacraments and Marian Dogma were brought through the Reformation. What has happened to them? Is Mary not important anymore? Why did Jesus get baptized if it was only symbolic? Jesus meant what He said, and we believe Him. It is hard to follow His design, but a true Catholic who understands that we are to abide by what HE says do and not let our own will take over knows we had better do just what Jesus said do.

 

[Non_Serviam]

Nicole,

You have a choice to make (unless you’ve already made it or you’ve fled in terror at the welcome you’ve received here) about how you are going to worship God.

You should make that choice based on your knowledge of God, what relationship God wants to have with you and how God wants that relationship to occur.

You also need to take into account your family, how God wants to use them in shaping your spiritual life and how you can best shape theirs so that their lives are pleasing to God as well.

A lot of people have said a lot of things on here about what they believe. Most of them can’t be proven in an objective sense, so at best they are offering you their thoughts on the matter and the authorities they’ve chosen to trust in.

In light of what you know about God you can examine these people, their lives and the claims of the various authorities to see how they line up with God’s self-revelation. Once you’ve done that the decision again remains with you.

I wish you well in making it and I hope that it turns out to be the correct one.

NS

 

[cthulhubryan]

I strongly urge you to read cs lewis or ck chesterton English writers and intellectuals (and catholics) of the early 1900’s. They provided me an intellectual basis for faith to go along with the church’s teachings. In fact the catholic church I believe has the strongest intellectual basis to support the ressurection that there is if you go to the website it is wonderful.

While I strongly agree with you about the Catholic church and the intellectual basis for faith as this is one of my major reason for being in RCIA, I must make one correction to the above statement.

Chesterton was Catholic, but Lewis was Anglican much to Tolkien’s distress. Tolkien, who was Catholic and wrote in a Catholic structure for Middle Earth, worked hard to bring Lewis to the Church (Lewis was a disaffected member of the Church of Ireland) and while Tolkien did get Lewis back to Christianity Lewis went to the Anglicans instead of the RCC.

This does nothing to detract from the wonders and the apologetic value of Lewis’ works.

 

[broski234]

I

am gonna split hairs a little on this one… Both Scripture and doctrine ARE the teachings and the practice of the Catholic Church. They can only be proven or disproven if they are understood in precise meaning and context in which they were written.

Or what the Catholic Church teaches!

 

[broski234]

Before any of you non-Catholics on this thread launch into all the changes the Church has made, I want to say that there have been none. It has remained the same. Look at the Pashida and the Catechism, when were they originally written? We hold true today to the same teachings today as we did then. Since the Catholic Church is the one that understood the teachings we wrote into Scripture, (through the protection and guidance of the Holy Spirit) we also, for 2,000 years (through the grace of the Holy Spirit), have been given a deeper understanding of only a few things, ie, the Trinity. To teach it more fully, is not the same as rewriting to change the meaning, ommitting teachings and books of the BIble, adding words that change the entire meaning, teach personal interpretation and feeling as Truth, etc… Jesus gave His Authority and promise to guide ONLY to the Apostles. Not to each and every one of us humans. Who else do you think was standing there accepting Jesus’ Authority or applyng Jesus’ promise to guide and protect His Church from error to themselves? Jesus was founding His Church on those 12 men and gave His promise to guide and protect ONLY those men from teaching error to protect His Church, not, not us individuals. Can’t you see that for over 1500 years the Christians KNEW where the Authority was and to not self interpret? They knew to hold true to the teachings and traditions that were taught to them by the Church. Luther and his buddies came along thinking they knew better and changed everything. Just so you can recognize how man will always continue to damage on their own, beliefs and teachings of the sacraments and Marian Dogma were brought through the Reformation. What has happened to them? Is Mary not important anymore? Why did Jesus get baptized if it was only symbolic? Jesus meant what He said, and we believe Him. It is hard to follow His design, but a true Catholic who understands that we are to abide by what HE says do and not let our own will take over knows we had better do just what Jesus said do.

I might add that knowing the difference between a doctrine and a discipline is vital too. In 2000 years, Catholic doctrine has not changed. They have been further defined, but the church has always stayed true to its doctrine. However, disciplines can and are subject to change.

 

[michaelcollins]

What does this post have to do with the Catholic position (the verses I posted) of salvation?

sorry it was more a respone to the other poster.

I agree with your post and the position they show

 

[michaelcollins]

While I strongly agree with you about the Catholic church and the intellectual basis for faith as this is one of my major reason for being in RCIA, I must make one correction to the above statement.

Chesterton was Catholic, but Lewis was Anglican much to Tolkien’s distress. Tolkien, who was Catholic and wrote in a Catholic structure for Middle Earth, worked hard to bring Lewis to the Church (Lewis was a disaffected member of the Church of Ireland) and while Tolkien did get Lewis back to Christianity Lewis went to the Anglicans instead of the RCC.

This does nothing to detract from the wonders and the apologetic value of Lewis’ works.

of course you are right on Lewis, got tired yesterday and frustrated at work and it shows in thought and typing.

one of the reasons that lewis is much more well known for his writings on morality and religion than chesterton in my humble opinion is that chesterton joined the catholic church when he became a christian.

I am currently reading what’s wrong with the world, written in the 1900’s by chesterton and it could have been written yesterday. humerous intellectual and sometimes a little hard to foolow because he is a little smarter than I and his brain moves a little faster than mine.