I believe Jesus was never a god who became man

[Bill_Pick]

This statement is these not true “Jews, and then disappeared in a very short time of three (3) years never to be seen again.”
Many peop;e seen Jesus after the time of his death,I can not remember the # but I think it was over 500.

 

[planten]

This statement is these not true “Jews, and then disappeared in a very short time of three (3) years never to be seen again.”
Many peop;e seen Jesus after the time of his death,I can not remember the # but I think it was over 500.

Yes, after the ordeal on the cross and recovery from the wounds, Jesus met his close friends only. It is better not to increase the number to 500. He was with his close friends only for about forty days (may be less days) and then left on his long journey, according to some good plan, never to be seen again.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Yes, after the ordeal on the cross and recovery from the wounds, Jesus met his close friends only. It is better not to increase the number to 500. He was with his close friends only for about forty days (may be less days) and then left on his long journey, according to some good plan, never to be seen again.

Are you saying Jesus recovery from His wounds in three days,do you understand any thing about His wounds or is this your opinion ,AGAIN

 

[SteveVH]

Yes, after the ordeal on the cross and recovery from the wounds, Jesus met his close friends only. It is better not to increase the number to 500. He was with his close friends only for about forty days (may be less days) and then left on his long journey, according to some good plan, never to be seen again.

I resent your implication that Jesus did not die and therefore was not resurrected and did not ascend. You have nothing to base this on other than your opinion. No wonder you do not follow Christ. You have been told lies. Read the scriptures and believe.

 

[Newbie2]

Yes, after the ordeal on the cross and recovery from the wounds, Jesus met his close friends only. It is better not to increase the number to 500. He was with his close friends only for about forty days (may be less days) and then left on his long journey, according to some good plan, never to be seen again.

(Nothing more needs to be said, just )

 

[wwolverine]

(Nothing more needs to be said, just )

I simply love this guy planten. If he wrote a novel, bet it will be a best seller in both US and UK markets.

Who knows it might be awarded as children’s book of the year too.

 

[Silence_Dogood_1]

paarsurrey:

I love Jesus and his true teachings but I don’t believe that Jesus was ever a god who became man.

So, what do you believe Jesus '“true teachings” are?

Jesus had no explicit claim to it except some obscure statements narrated by others who misunderstood him.

Not sure where you got that idea. Jesus stated that He is God several times in the Bible.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Thsi thread was started by paarsurrey long ago. He was banned and he has disappeared completely. The last I heard about him was that he was active in a blog (his own blog).

The Topic was hard. I believe Jesus was never a god who became man. Hard to swallow by the church.

I do not know why it has been dug out again from the debris. Here I just take up the recent post of Gabriel 12. Pls see. That seems to refer to verses of the bible.

It is not presented in a good way and does not make sense. Something is wrong in presenting the verses…

I can only comment on the Last part where it is said that if all things that Jesus did and said were written down, there would not be space enough in the world to handle them. It is a good statement to please the minds of the Catholics. But is it not a joke??

That there is a thing which does fill the earth. But if it is written down it would overflow from the earth and earth would have no capacity to hold it. ???

We know that Jesus worked hard, performed some miracles, gave some lectures, turned some tables, accused (and abused) the evil generation of his time Jews, and then disappeared in a very short time of three (3) years never to be seen again.

The rest of reply is equally important about some one (John) testifying. Reply could be given once a correct form of verses is presented.

Plant, You friend Pass was banned,why are they waiting to banned you

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Yes, I agree something is terribly wrong when man misinterprets God’s revelation from his Word.

I can only comment on the Last part where it is said that if all things that Jesus did and said were written down, there would not be space enough in the world to handle them. It is a good statement to please the minds of the Catholics. But is it not a joke??

It is obvious your space between God and you does not connect, because you have under estimated the power of God. It is apparent you read the scriptures with a prejudiced view with already bias standards, because you lack the revelation from this scripture, which surpasses the ink on the page from which you derive your conclusion. God is Spirit if you want to understand the mysteries of God, One needs Jesus Christ, without Jesus, you only have flesh which turns to dust, just as your reading of God’s word as ink on a page, which reveals your intention of remaining in dust (flesh) and never growing in the ways of God, if you read scripture as if they are ink on a page, with out God’s Spirit.

That there is a thing which does fill the earth. But if it is written down it would overflow from the earth and earth would have no capacity to hold it. ???

Maybe this could help you? When God created the world and everything that exists with his Word, do you think there would be enough books in the World to contain God’s Word which is eternity from infinity? This is how God’s word speaks. Please learn how to read God’s Word from a Christian first before you take an interpretation from one who does not live out God’s Word as a follower of Jesus Christ. Without the Spirit of God, you will always come into deception, and evil understanding of reading sacred scripture.

We know that Jesus worked hard, performed some miracles, gave some lectures, turned some tables, accused (and abused) the evil generation of his time Jews, and then disappeared in a very short time of three (3) years never to be seen again.

Funny how you believe Jesus existed, (you are growing here, but still need to be spoon fed) yet refuse to believe the eye witness accounts of Jesus resurrection and miracles after he resurrected. Do you have proof that Jesus was never seen again? Can you produce a first century eye witness who never seen or heard of Jesus resurrection?

The rest of reply is equally important about some one (John) testifying. Reply could be given once a correct form of verses is presented.

This is a joke? when one demands a first century manuscript to fit his literary expectations by refusing to respect or acknowledge the authors “Tradition, language, culture, persecution and oral Traditions”. And you make yourself out to be a realist, when you wish upon stars that do not exist for just you?

I will pray for you

 

[Mosacked]

And that effectively classifies you as one of the followers of the Anti-Christ.

**1 John 2:22 Who is the Liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Messiah. Such a man is the Antichrist— he denies the Father (God) and the Son (Jesus). Luke 16:16 The Law and the Prophets were until John the Baptist.
**

.

 

[planten]

And that effectively classifies you as one of the followers of the Anti-Christ.

How come. Just because you say so or you wish so. Please understand that your evil wishes (desires) will never realise, will not come true. Try to do some good things.

**1 John 2:22 Who is the Liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Messiah. **

I challenge you on that too. You are so misinformed person. All Muslims believe that Jesus is the Messiah. It is written in the Quran. WeI also believe that Jesus was the true Messaiah for the Jews. But they rejected him.

So what have you to say. So, I am not the Liar. Okay??

Such a man is the Antichrist— he denies the Father (God) and the Son (Jesus)

I do not deny the father God and I do not deny Jesus. They seemed to have some Father and son relation by way of Love only… Jesus had said “You are all children of God.” I believe in God and Jesus. But not in Jesus as a God. You believe that Jesus is God. So you are mistaken to the very high degree of sinful belief.

You may believe what you like. But Muslims will not agree to you.

. Luke 16:16 The Law and the Prophets were until John the Baptist.

Are you trying to tell me that Jesus was not a prophet of God?? You may be mistaken. Luke may be talking from himself. I will check up if these are the words attributed to Jesus. I have no problem if you do not count Jesus as a prophet. Please tell clearly if Jesus was a prophet or nat??? Welcome.

.

 

[wwolverine]

How come. Just because you say so or you wish so. Please understand that your evil wishes (desires) will never realise, will not come true. Try to do some good things.

Are you trying to tell me that Jesus was not a prophet of God?? You may be mistaken. Luke may be talking from himself. I will check up if these are the words attributed to Jesus. I have no problem if you do not count Jesus as a prophet. Please tell clearly if Jesus was a prophet or nat??? Welcome.

.

Dear Planten. when will u understand, Why would God need two prophets at the same time? And that too in the same place? No where in the past was this done and nor was it done for mohammed whom you claim to be prophet.

John the Baptist was the last prophet and Jesus was the Messiah.Somewhere Mohammed made a mistake of understanding and I dont know if it was a known mistake as someone else wanted it to be so, or unknown mistake.

 

[planten]

From Gabrielof 12:

Yes, I agree something is terribly wrong when man misinterprets God’s revelation from his Word.

Then what is the use of the words??

It is obvious your space between God and you does not connect, because you have under estimated the power of God. It is apparent you read the scriptures with a prejudiced view with already bias standards, because you lack the revelation from this scripture, which surpasses the ink on the page from which you derive your conclusion. God is Spirit if you want to understand the mysteries of God, One needs Jesus Christ, without Jesus, you only have flesh which turns to dust, just as your reading of God’s word as ink on a page, which reveals your intention of remaining in dust (flesh) and never growing in the ways of God, if you read scripture as if they are ink on a page, with out God’s Spirit.

Why should I underestimate the power of God. But I know that you are not God. I will not allow any one to use the powers of God. Please do not be a god and do not mind.

Maybe this could help you? When God created the world and everything that exists with his Word, do you think there would be enough books in the World to contain God’s Word which is eternity from infinity? This is how God’s word speaks. Please learn how to read God’s Word from a Christian first before you take an interpretation from one who does not live out God’s Word as a follower of Jesus Christ. Without the Spirit of God, you will always come into deception, and evil understanding of reading sacred scripture

.

You may be right here. The Quran also tells about the innumerable words of God (Kalimat ullah). Jesus was just one of those kalimah, just one of those innumerable words. Allah said that if all the trees became pens and all the oceans became ink and the words of Allah were written down, the ink will not besuffient to write down all words even thoug it was supplemented by more oceans.

Quote:
We know that Jesus worked hard, performed some miracles, gave some lectures, turned some tables, accused (and abused) the evil generation of his time Jews, and then disappeared in a very short time of three (3) years never to be seen again.

Funny how you believe Jesus existed, (you are growing here, but still need to be spoon fed) yet refuse to believe the eye witness accounts of Jesus resurrection and miracles after he resurrected. Do you have proof that Jesus was never seen again? Can you produce a first century eye witness who never seen or heard of Jesus resurrection?

Why you need to feed every one with your spoon?? There was no one in tomb with Jesus when he got up from his lying down position. We know he was quickly removed from the tomb to another better much safer place. He had fainted. He came to after some time. You call that resurrection. In the bibleNT it is written that Jesus had risen.

How much meaning do you want to give to the word “risen”?? Please remain within limits.

Jesus was seen again. He walked 70 miles to Galilee, being very careful. He met his close friends only. He never went back to any Roman official or to the senior members of the Jews. I hope you will agree to me on that, please.

Some people may have discussed Jesus resurrection because it is all over the palce now.

Quote:
The rest of reply is equally important about some one (John) testifying. Reply could be given once a correct form of verses is presented.

This is a joke? when one demands a first century manuscript to fit his literary expectations by refusing to respect or acknowledge the authors “Tradition, language, culture, persecution and oral Traditions”. And you make yourself out to be a realist, when you wish upon stars that do not exist for just you?

I do not deny the stars. There are the Catholics claiming unusual things about Jesus. They are using strange words. They are giving special meanings to words “risen” and “begotten” etc. What can we do?? At the same time they deny outright the truth of other religions. There is no comaprison to the biased attitude.

But we honor the Catholics and their BibleNT and their effort in preaching their own version of the religion.

I will pray for you

Thank you. Do not froget to Pray for yoruself too.

 

[wwolverine]

From Gabrielof 12:

Why should I underestimate the power of God. But I know that you are not God. I will not allow any one to use the powers of God. Please do not be a god and do not mind.

.

Its not only you dear Planten but muslim world have underestimated the power of God and thats why its Muslim world take the law in their hands when some untowed incident takes place in their world, ie saying something to Allah, or mohammed or drawing pictures etc. That judgement and punishment belongs to God.

See what the Holy Bible says.
Numbers 12 (New International Version)

Numbers 12

Miriam and Aaron Oppose Moses

1 Miriam and Aaron began to talk against Moses because of his Cushite wife, for he had married a Cushite. 2 “Has the LORD spoken only through Moses?” they asked. “Hasn’t he also spoken through us?” And the LORD heard this.
3 (Now Moses was a very humble man, more humble than anyone else on the face of the earth.)

4 At once the LORD said to Moses, Aaron and Miriam, “Come out to the Tent of Meeting, all three of you.” So the three of them came out. 5 Then the LORD came down in a pillar of cloud; he stood at the entrance to the Tent and summoned Aaron and Miriam. When both of them stepped forward, 6 he said, "Listen to my words:
"When a prophet of the LORD is among you,
I reveal myself to him in visions,
I speak to him in dreams.

7 But this is not true of my servant Moses;
he is faithful in all my house.

8 With him I speak face to face,
clearly and not in riddles;
he sees the form of the LORD.
Why then were you not afraid
to speak against my servant Moses?"

9 The anger of the LORD burned against them, and he left them.

10 When the cloud lifted from above the Tent, there stood Miriam—leprous, [a] like snow. Aaron turned toward her and saw that she had leprosy; 11 and he said to Moses, “Please, my lord, do not hold against us the sin we have so foolishly committed. 12 Do not let her be like a stillborn infant coming from its mother’s womb with its flesh half eaten away.”

 

[wwolverine]

Find this thread left high and dry. wonder why.

 

[Bill_Pick]

From Gabrielof 12:

Then what is the use of the words??

Why should I underestimate the power of God. But I know that you are not God. I will not allow any one to use the powers of God. Please do not be a god and do not mind.

.

You may be right here. The Quran also tells about the innumerable words of God (Kalimat ullah). Jesus was just one of those kalimah, just one of those innumerable words. Allah said that if all the trees became pens and all the oceans became ink and the words of Allah were written down, the ink will not besuffient to write down all words even thoug it was supplemented by more oceans.

Quote:
We know that Jesus worked hard, performed some miracles, gave some lectures, turned some tables, accused (and abused) the evil generation of his time Jews, and then disappeared in a very short time of three (3) years never to be seen again.

Why you need to feed every one with your spoon?? There was no one in tomb with Jesus when he got up from his lying down position. We know he was quickly removed from the tomb to another better much safer place. He had fainted. He came to after some time. You call that resurrection. In the bibleNT it is written that Jesus had risen.

How much meaning do you want to give to the word “risen”?? Please remain within limits.

Jesus was seen again. He walked 70 miles to Galilee, being very careful. He met his close friends only. He never went back to any Roman official or to the senior members of the Jews. I hope you will agree to me on that, please.

Some people may have discussed Jesus resurrection because it is all over the palce now.

Quote:
The rest of reply is equally important about some one (John) testifying. Reply could be given once a correct form of verses is presented.

I do not deny the stars. There are the Catholics claiming unusual things about Jesus. They are using strange words. They are giving special meanings to words “risen” and “begotten” etc. What can we do?? At the same time they deny outright the truth of other religions. There is no comaprison to the biased attitude.

But we honor the Catholics and their BibleNT and their effort in preaching their own version of the religion.

Thank you. Do not froget to Pray for yoruself too.

Palten, We know what you believe you have told us a hundred times,you are a mulism and did not beieve in GOD,but we are Christian and do not believe your @#%#@ so leave us alone

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Then what is the use of the words??

[/QUOTE]

 

[planten]

The Words of God must be interpreted from the orginal language, original mindset of the author, culture, and belief. Which need I remind you all the New Testament books are Christian Authors , not Muslim. So you have no business trying to interpret God’s word from a Muslim perspective because it does not exist in the mindset of the orginal biblical authors.

 

[planten]

From and for Gabriel of 12:

What you have touched on here from a Christian perspective falls into mysticsm. There is hope of ecumenism here on this topic. I find where your Quran coming into existance much after Christianity, that it reflects some of the New Testament teachings although with a twist the conflicts with the original New Testament Authors teachings

.

Similarly, I see your book bibleNt coming into play 1400 years after Moses and disagreeing with many points on Monotheism and son of God and man-God, it is similar. NT is not in agreement with the OT teachings. The Christians have left off all practice on the commandments of the OT…

I am sorry planten you don’t know nothing of Jesus yet? because you cannot prove anyone from Jesus time that taught Islam or think to interpret Christian writings the way that you misinterpret God’s living Word. Because Catholics have Original Oral Traditions, and written scripture that prove and confirm Jesus was crucified, died and was buried, and raised from the dead in his resurrection. We have eyewitness accounts to the crucifixion and resurrection from both Christians, Jews and pagans who converted to “The Way”.

I do not know what I need to know more about Jesus. I have the bibleNT (gospels only) before me which is telling all about the life and works of Jesus. Okay, I believe that too. Then I have the bibleOT and the teachings of the prophets of Israel. I have the Quran too which describes Jesus and his mother.

I do not know what you want to teach me about Jesus unless it is some far fetched unbelievable thing, not found in bibleNT, OT, and Quran. Please tell me one (small) thing, a reality, about Jesus. Thanks.

Spoon fed is just a gesture, to inform one very slowly about the Mysteries of God which Jesus Christ has revealed everything according to the law and prophets to his Apostles who handed down to us in Jesus Catholic Church which is his body. Someone has “Lied” to you about your misinterpretation of "Risen

".

I would like to know from you about your prophet please. Who is your prophet? Nobody has lied to me about “Risen”. It is my own faulty understanding of “risen”. Perhaps you want to give some special meaning to “Risen”???

My early quote: Jesus was seen again. He walked 70 miles to Galilee, being very careful. He met his close friends only. He never went back to any Roman official or to the senior members of the Jews. I hope you will agree to me on that, please.

Here’s a mystery; Jesus did got to Rome in the person of Peter, Paul and many others who were martyred who gave testimony of this. So I will have to disagree with your flesh understanding of the scriptures and what took place in recorded history by both religious and secular which both entities record Jesus

.

Here you are taking to much liberty, making Peter as Jesus. Is that going back to elders of Jews?? i.e. after many years in the shape of another person. Did those officials saw Peter as Jesus, peter appeared to them in the shape of Jesus??. I am sure that is none of the things. So I can say that Jesus himself never went back to any of his grand opponents after “Rising”.

Many people (Christians) from the first century discussed Jesus and were Killed for believing in what they saw, Jesus resurrected from the dead. There is just more people in the world now, and the Catholic Church has never stopped nor will she ever stop proclaiming Jesus Christ Crucified, now resurrected from the dead, and lives eternally amen

.

I believe that many people were killed for what they believed. They were not killed for believing in Crucifixion or resurrection. They were killed for believing in the good works of Jesus, i.e. for being his followers, for living the life the way Jesus lived. I wish many christians of today lived a life the way Jesus and his mother lived.

 

[planten]

My quote: I do not deny the stars. There are the Catholics claiming unusual things about Jesus. They are using strange words. They are giving special meanings to words “risen” and “begotten” etc. What can we do?? At the same time they deny outright the truth of other religions. There is no comparison to the biased attitude.

Since the begginning, Catholics have been a perculiar people, because we are a sacramental (partakers of the divine nature) and Eucharistic (thanksgiving) people. It does not surprise me that you would consider these Christians as strange? What we can do is learn from them. If you learn and understand, as Catholics do other religions, that is why Catholics do not deny any truth to ones religion. Vatican council II speaks of ecumenism of other religions. We believe other religions mirror or reflect a part of God’s True Truth. Because the Catholic church has the True body, blood soul and divinity of Jesus Christ, there is no other Truth that can surpass the “True Presence of God”. Now this may sound unusual coming from a Roman Catholic, on the surface it sounds perculiar, but from eternity, it is rock solid God’s Truth.

Peace be with you

That is good. You have a belief and you have a right to that belief. I do not deny it. Every one is entitled, undisturbed, to any belief. You believe in Jesus as God and son of God. That is well known to every one here.

So peace be with you too.