I can't receive sacraments because of my husband

[shannin]

I think your priest did the right thing in placing a “no contact” on you.

As Catholic women, we should not be kissing priests on the check.

Shannin

 

[Anna_Elizabeth]

Well, Folks, All these hours of kindly advice may or may not have afforded Therese any comfort or help, but as a retired teacher always looking for what they refer to as the “teachable moment,” I must ask, “Now everybody, what have we learned from this?” :tsktsk:

I have copied for posterity this increasingly complicated tale as it unfolded as well as some of your compassionate efforts to provide help. Pehaps I am jumping the gun, and the charges of ever more egregious clerical behavior will continue. Conversely, maybe the 15 minutes of fame have been exhausted. But in any case, will some of you agree that my earlier suggestion about asking more questions is worth recalling when confronted with future tales of woe?



Anna

 

[shannin]

vatoco6:

Hi, Shannin -

I was written a “no contact, in any way” letter by my ex-pastor because he fell in love with me.

What a schmuck.

This is a guy who was in the Navy for eleven years prior to joining the priesthood. He’s no virgin. But he never discussed ANY of his feelings for me with me. He just started acting like a jerk one day.

Yup, there was more to the story. And I will scream if one more bitter old celibate priest tries to tell me that women are dangerous to a man’s vocation! Why does it always have to be someone else’s (like my) fault when a priest screws up?

 

[shannin]

Because of all the recent scandal in the Church, I feel a little protective towards the wonderful priests that remain.

I’m shocked, hurt and a little angry at some of your remarks about your priest. Any priest will tell you that he is human and as Catholic women we should behave appropriately and modestly when in their presence.

Your priest did the right thing in making you a “no contact”. He did it as a result of your actions and behavior towards him in order to protect his reputation.

Shannin

 

[vatoco6]

Yup, Anna Elizabeth and Shannin…

I grew up Catholic…a nun was my mom’s best friend. And yes, my mom kissed Fr. Wilfred on the cheek when he’d come to our home to dinner.

But if you represent the Catholic faith, I’m outta here.

Thanks for the favor!

 

[AlanFromWichita]

To those who would cast Therese out of the Church for her transgressions:

This woman has obviously been a faithful steward of her time and talent to the Church, and knows very well that her past has put her in a precarious position from a legalistic standpoint. She was asking for help at how to rejoin the Church based on her situation. For whatever reason, she did not reveal all the gory details right up front. It seems the majority of posters here are so involved with protecting the Church’s image, thinking they are being faithful to the Church, that we have forgotten what the Church is all about and instead of giving her ideas about how to get back we’re coming up with justifications as to why she should get lost and stay lost. Is the Church of Jesus here to stone women that we think may have been too friendly (and in case you haven’t read back, remember this priest she “kissed on the cheek” was a long time personal friend and he himself urged her to rejoin the church) or is it to do what Jesus asked Peter to do – feed His sheep.

You who think that Therese should be forever banned from the Church because of what you would consider an indiscretion, then you can go ahead and stone me while you’re stoning her because I, for one, will be standing right there between the two of you. I’m not as clever with words as Jesus, and I don’t know your hearts but I do know this. If you are so Catholic, then you probably are against abortion. Do you not realize that a “no contact” letter from the only readily available parish to a person desperately struggling to get back in is the spiritual equivalent of abortion?

I am not questioning your motives, but warning you. What you do is certainly out of faith and what you believe is right. I believe this woman has done no harm to the Church and you are casting out a potential gold mine in her. If I’m wrong, I’ll take that risk. Worse would be if I was right and failed to warn you, in which case if you are condemned I would be with you too. I will be praying for you that your eyes may be opened so that you may see.

Alan

 

[AlanFromWichita]

OMG! Sometimes after I sleep and reread something I wrote before that sleep, I have a whole different outlook. I can hardly believe I was actually that serious. I guess I still am suffering from some old baggage that makes me go weird whenever I think somebody has been judged. I will answer in a way that I can just imagine someone might have thought by reading my post.

AlanFromWichita:

You who think that Therese should be forever banned from the Church because of what you would consider an indiscretion, then you can go ahead and stone me while you’re stoning her because I, for one, will be standing right there between the two of you.

Dear “Alan”

You’ve got to be kidding. I wasn’t going to stone her, but my aim might not be good enough if she’s too close to you.

I’m not as clever with words as Jesus, and I don’t know your hearts

Duhhhh

I am not questioning your motives, but warning you.

Not questioning?
Yeah, you are so pure I can tell.

I will be praying for you that your eyes may be opened so that you may see.

Alan

and I will pray the same for you.

Sincerely,
Anti-Alan

 

[shannin]

Alan,

I am not judging this woman. **Please forgive me if I came across that way. **

She claims that her priest “fell in love with her”; calls her priest a “sch----”; talks about kissing him on the cheek and touching leg, etc. I am simply saying that her priest did the correct thing in placing her as a “no contact”. I don’t see what her priest did that was wrong in light of the situation she describes.

She says that she has stopped going to Mass. Why can’t she find another parish to join?

I also was divorced many years ago and as a Catholic, I fully understood that I needed an annulment in order to re-marry and still be able to receive the sacraments. The Church has not just singled her out. The rule of divorce and remarriage applies to every Catholic. There’s no other way to get around her problem that I am aware of.

Again, I apologize if I came across as being judgmental towards this woman but what would you do if you were a priest and a woman said that you “fell in love with her”??? Wouldn’t you have to protect your reputation as a priest?

Blessings,
Shannin

 

[kristacecilia]

Hey, guys! I haven’t been following this thread, but I just read the whole thing start to finish and all I can say is that I am sort of ashamed. This woman came for help. She has the courage and dedication and LOVE of Christ’s Church most of us would envy. She has been mistreated and misinformed by clergy, friends, and, yes, even people on this board.

Therese, I hope you are still reading this. I admire so much your persistance in coming back to the Church and I hope you don’t give up yet. I am sorry you had to rehash your whole ordeal to us. I am not going to sit here and lay blame for each and ever offense, don’t worry. You accept the fact that you are partially to blame for not abiding by the Church’s teaching regarding marriage- the rest I would say we don’t know enough to discuss.

Please, please, please don’t give up yet. You have been given SOME good advice on this forum- I am going to try and condense it.

1. Change parishes.

I know this is probably going to be hard. We all have sentimental attachment to our parish, but I think this would be in your best interest. You won’t have to deal with the pastor who has mistreated you, you won’t have to deal with parishoners thinking badly of you- you can essentially start all over. At your new parish, approach the priest or pastor and explain your situation to him and your desire to be receiving the sacraments. Hopefully they will support you in the next task.

1. Seek recourse to the marriage tribunal.

The Archbishop’s word will probably be upheld, but you need to go through the proper channels. That is, pastor then tribunal.

1. Attend Mass every week, pray every day, live the Catholic life as much as you are able.

You need this spiritual time. You need to remember what you are fighting for. You need to be as close to the Real Presence as you can at this point. You need to be as much of a good, pracitice Catholic as you can be so your husband and pastor will see your desire for the Church is real. Set a good example for your children and your husband. If you still have children at home, begin attending Mass together every Sunday as a family- see about getting your children involved in the sacraments (if they are able- they may also need to go through RCIA or RCIC) and youth group.

Therese, please don’t give up!! I don’t detect one bit of insincerity about your desire or fault about your situation in your posts, other than your marriage to a man who had a previous marriage, and even then you weren’t fully informed about the Church’s teaching regarding this. Please don’t let the people who are continually laying blame everywhere drive you away from the Church you love.

Continue to learn about the Church, practice the Faith as much as you can. Make spiritual communion as often as you think of it. Change parishes and talk to your new pastor, explaining everything to him and asking him for help to do this the right way. You are so amazing to continue your way back even after having been through so much. So many people would have left and never looked back.

I am praying that you are still around to read this. Feel free to PM me or email me if you need support. I can’t really offer much more than that, I am afraid.

With many prayers,

 

[AlanFromWichita]

shannin:

I am not judging this woman. **Please forgive me if I came across that way. **

I believe you. Please forgive me for assuming. (You know what “assuming” does, right?)

Again, I apologize if I came across as being judgmental towards this woman but what would you do if you were a priest and a woman said that you “fell in love with her”??? Wouldn’t you have to protect your reputation as a priest?

I don’t envy the situation priests are in. At our parish, I have especially noticed when young, enthusiastic priests come in as associates the young single girls – some from CYO that those priests are in charge of – flirt with them big time. It must be quite a test. Several years ago one of them suddenly left the parish, and then we found out he had decided to leave the priesthood and get married. (Back in the day, I would have craved that much attention from cute girls and women.) Plus, I can’t even IMAGINE what it’s like for a single, celibate, male human being of any age to sit in a confessional and listen to the most private and sordid details imaginable from men and women of all ages and not have some kind of odd psychological effects.

My point is that priests have a tough job, but it goes with the territory. Given the current emphasis on protecting images, I can see a concern. When one of my daughters was in about fourth grade, she gave a hug to the school maintenance man, who I think is a really great guy. He asked us to stop her from doing that because even though he understood it was innocent, it could give the wrong impression. In the case at hand, we don’t have the priest’s side of the story except what Therese has disclosed, but I would think that if he were uncomfortable around her he should have handled it like our school maintenance man rather than cast out an individual so-called “friend” that he had tried for two years to entice into the Church.

In his defense, he did give her somewhat of a warning by telling her that if she gets too close, he WILL hurt her. A kiss on the cheek after that was probably not well advised, and I’m sure Therese realizes that by now. OTOH, if he is so threatened that he acts like a cornered animal because a woman shows him a little affection, I think he should give a long and hard thought to whether he is in the right vocation.

Alan

 

[renee1258]

Please correct me, but I just saw a new thread from the original thread started. She wants to leave the forum and the Church. I can’t help but see a repetative behavior here. Always the victim… and if you hold them accountable you are at attacking them.

We told her what she had to do, to make it right and it wasn’t good enough for her. I just feel trolled, being fished for guilt. I know I’m a charitable person, but I don’t like people dragging me down making me feel like a horrible.

I pray for, that one day she will realize the free will she has to take some responsiblity.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

renee1258:

Please correct me, but I just saw a new thread from the original thread started. She wants to leave the forum and the Church. I can’t help but see a repetative behavior here. Always the victim… and if you hold them accountable you are at attacking them.

Dear renee,

To me it looks like she doesn’t want to leave, but does not know how to deal with either one. By starting the new thread, my un-professional psychoanalytical opinion is that she was looking for help in how to reconcile it without having to leave.

We told her what she had to do, to make it right and it wasn’t good enough for her.

Are you assuming that she’s not taking anyone’s advice because she defends herself against what appeared to her to be justifications of why she should stay out of the Church? I read through your posts on this thread and I see that you did offer advice. Perhaps you might ask out here or by PM what she’s gained from this forum, since the blaming and other painful stuff seems to so predominant that it overshadows the kindness.

I just feel trolled, being fished for guilt. I know I’m a charitable person, but I don’t like people dragging me down making me feel like a horrible.

You sound victimized. You aren’t trying to “hold her accountable” for your own feelings, are you? – Just kidding.

There are a lot of people who hurt, and who are going through difficult times. Some are just not emotionally strong enough to deal with them. If these forums are making you feel horrible, you might need to take a break from them. Just my opinion, FWIW.

I pray for, that one day she will realize the free will she has to take some responsiblity.

I pray for both of you to be healed of the hurt you’ve experienced on this forum.

Alan

 

[renee1258]

I’ll admit I’ve been in my share of co-dependent freindships. There is only so much you can do for someone, but if they choose to not to take the advice there is little I can do. Ever felt guilty for not feeling guilty?

 

[csr]

AlanFromWichita:

Plus, I can’t even IMAGINE what it’s like for a single, celibate, male human being of any age to sit in a confessional and listen to

This comment is said without the eyes of faith. I’m not being hostile: I’m just saying that you are applying mere natural reason to an article of faith. The things the priest hears go in one ear and out the other. There is memory only long enough to offer helpful advice. Never give it a second thought. Forgetting confessions is a characteristic of the priesthood.

It seems to me that in the situation being described there is enough fault and enough stones to go around. I pray that Therese will (a) offer up to Jesus all the hurts, from all quarters, and not take them herself, (b) not abandon the Church, and (c) do what is possible to live the truth and to encourage others to live the truth especially by encouraging husband to cooperate. Also, I again encourage Therese to explore traditional chapels. This would change the atmosphere completely, and put you in contact with priests who are much more sound in the traditional teachings and behavior. There, the focus is on the faith and on the sacraments, and not on any sort of monkey business.

The Chuch is the true church, and once you know that, there is no possibility of abandoning it. The grace of perseverance is what you need here, I think.

 

[martino]

reoman:

Right on…it’s not difficult to see through the agenda of ricatholic…hope this individual doesn’t infect others on this site with untruths and false information.

Hey, I don’t even bother to read his post anymore, I just skip over him and I suggest that everyone else do the same thing.

 

[martino]

I just sat here and read every post on this thread (except for those by ricatholic), and have come to the following conclusion. The only people that have been treated unfairly in this thread are Shannin, Elizabeth, and Renee!

It dawned on me, as the story unfolded, how wonderful the Catholic Church is, especially in regards to the original poster and her husband. They have a serious problem that everyone in the entire world was more than willing to ignore; except for the Catholic Church. Ignoring the problem doesn’t solve the problem, it makes it worse, that is clear from her own words. So many people believe that love comes in the form of license; if someone doesn’t allow you to do as you wish they must not love you. The Church is accused of this all the time; but the fact is that discipline and correction are signs of true love, every parent knows this. It is obvious to me that the only participant in this tangled web that is at all concerned with either of their salvation is the Catholic Church.

The few people that pointed this out were themselves accused of being mean or nasty. I pray that the original poster continues her journey back home to the Church and that she realizes that the Church wants to help her untagle the knot that she herself tied!

 

[tru_dvotion]

martino:

I just sat here and read every post on this thread (except for those by ricatholic), and have come to the following conclusion. The only people that have been treated unfairly in this thread are Shannin, Elizabeth, and Renee!

It dawned on me, as the story unfolded, how wonderful the Catholic Church is, especially in regards to the original poster and her husband. They have a serious problem that everyone in the entire world was more than willing to ignore; except for the Catholic Church. Ignoring the problem doesn’t solve the problem, it makes it worse, that is clear from her own words. So many people believe that love comes in the form of license; if someone doesn’t allow you to do as you wish they must not love you. The Church is accused of this all the time; but the fact is that discipline and correction are signs of true love, every parent knows this. It is obvious to me that the only participant in this tangled web that is at all concerned with either of their salvation is the Catholic Church.

The few people that pointed this out were themselves accused of being mean or nasty. I pray that the original poster continues her journey back home to the Church and that she realizes that the Church wants to help her untagle the knot that she herself tied!

Hear hear!

This same post is going over at the Spirituality section with the thread “I’m thinkin’ that I will quit trying…but thanks for helping me!” I did the same thing as you martino, red the posts and offered some solutions for returning to the church. The handholding crowd there advised me “If you have not love, you are a tinkling gong or a clashing cymbal, all noise and no music”. I second the hope the OP will not leave the Church and instead will work toward the restoration of the disorder that seems to sorrund her at the moment. I hope she understands what we are trying to convey.

 

[Deanna]

Dear Vatoco6,

I posted way earlier on this thread but I have one more thing I would like to add now since ‘ricatholic’ is gone. I am a cradle-Catholic. I went to CCD, received First Holy Communion, went to the sacrament of penance regularly as a child and teen. Then my parents started having trouble in their marriage and stopped going to mass, which meant at the age of 14, so did I.

Then, I was ‘civilly’ married very young, no children, very briefly. Then I remarried, again, civilly, no children. THEN I decided to return to the church and was told I was living in mortal sin. BIG YIKES. So…I attended RCIA, and my priest got a ‘dispensation’ for my first marriage. Not sure what that is all about, but i had already contacted my first civil husband and told him he would be hearing from me and my church regarding an annullment so I could have my present marriage validated. He totally agreed to cooperate. He was NEVER contacted regarding this matter. I hate to think after reading all of these posts that maybe something wasn’t done correctly regarding my first civil marriage, and if so, I’m sure someone will let me know, which is a great fear, but I had to tell you this anyway in case it could help. Anyway, my priest got this ‘dispensation’ since my first marriage was never validated and not in fact ‘real’ in the eyes of the church, he said an actual ANNULLMENT would not be the course of action to take.

Since then, my marriage was blessed, I got confirmed and have been tending mass REGULARLY, albeit mostly alone.

But maybe a ‘dispensation’ is something you or your priest could look into.

You’re in my prayers.

Deanna

vatoco6:

Well, here’s what I think I’m going to do…

I can’t go to Mass now anyway, because I work weekend nights (Th - Sun). And I’ve been cast out by my former pastor anyway. So, it’s kind of a moot point.

I can continue to read and study at home, pray, and I don’t think that pressuring my husband to get an annullment will do any good.

I guess that’s it, then. Thank you for your kind attention and replies.

Therese

 

[PeterC]

mercygate:

ILearn to eat the Bread of Desire. Desire for the Eucharist is a very powerful form of penance.

This is the best news I have heard since I began a similar journey home. You have replied to a few of my posts regarding a marriage problem but not with a great deal of hope. However, your comment this time has lifted me to a great height of hope. Please tell me more. Today you really and actually performed an act of healing.

 

[mercygate]

PeterC:

This is the best news I have heard since I began a similar journey home. You have replied to a few of my posts regarding a marriage problem but not with a great deal of hope. However, your comment this time has lifted me to a great height of hope. Please tell me more. Today you really and actually performed an act of healing.

Not I, my brother.