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Catholic2003
Guest
The following canon law suggests that you may need to get your husband to act:
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
Dear Theresa676,
I agree that the annulment might cause them pain, or hassle.
What I haven’t seen addressed is, what effect will it have for him to contact his ex-wife on HER and if she is married now, HER HUSBAND? She was never Catholic, so she might not even have a legal or religious obligation to have told her present husband about her previous marriage. For all we know, she has put her past behind her, gotten married and has teenage children. Because Therese and her husband got into a problem with the Catholic church, after the ex-wife was out of the husband’s life, does that mean the ex-wife is now obligated to have Therese’s husband barge back into her life? Do we not think that after 21 years the ex-wife has a right to be left alone?
Alan
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Theresa667,
This is how I understand why she isn’t allowed confession.
When we go to confession we must have the intent to not commit the sins we confess again. Now I know that many of us to commit the same sins again but we must have the intent not to.
The sin here is that in the eyes of the Church she is 1) having sex out side of marriage and 2) (as the Church views her “husbands” first marriage as valid until otherwise decided) commiting adultery.
Now the question comes up, if she intents to live as a married couple with her “husband” would the intent not to commit those sins really be there? and would she even confess these sins?
T
tuopaolo
Guest
Mortal sin destroys charity and the life of sanctifying grace in the soul; it separates us from God. To come back to God we have to repent of all our mortal sins. Sorrow for all our mortal sins is necessary for the validity of the sacrament of confession. Absolution restores us to the state of grace but if we cling to a mortal sin then that would be incompatible with the state of grace and the sorrow necessary for a valid absolution.
In the case of venial sins you would be right. If one is just sorry for one’s mortal sins that is enough for the validity of the sacrament. Or if one is just confessing venial sins it is enough that one be sorry for some of them or that one have an intention to improve in some way by sinning less frequently.
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Theresa676
Guest
Thanks, Tuopaolo. That does kind of make sense.
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Anna_Elizabeth
Guest
Hello everyone
I’m a little confused about all of this. I understand why Therese isn’t allowed to take communion from the church’s standpoint.
QUOTE]
Just a quickie question, Theresa676,
Do you always refer to Holy Communion as something one “takes?”
This has come up on other threads, and I am always interested in the responses. Thanks, and
God Bless,
Anna
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Brad
Guest
Yes. I am not denying that this particular situation, and many others, are difficult and without any easy solutions. However, there are a few points here that are missed.Dear Brad,
How could any issue be bigger than not being allowed to receive Jesus Christ at Mass?
Christ ate and drank with sinners, saying He came for sinners, not for the righteous. He also said “unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life within you.” Therefore, excommunication – when it cannot be remedied by confession – removes a vital lifeline from the person. Even if this is not a “lifetime” excommunications, such as if the annulment is in the works and will take a few months, it is still a removal of a lifeline for a period of time. I consider excommunication to be the spiritual equivalent of abortion. I can understand that in some cases Mother Church would feel the need to do that in self-defense if her own spiritual life were threatened. However, if she has the keys to the kingdom of heaven, then God will back her up if she goes out on a limb and lets one sinner back in. People do make mistakes, and that may be why ricatholic meant brought “forgiveness” into the picture. Mercy has power over sin, does it not?
Marriage is intended to be permanent. When I first heard of annulments I was rather shocked. By the success of most annulment attempts, it seems that “what God has joined together let no man separate” must be more often lip service than actual fact, if we can successfully nitpick with enough lawyers to declare most any marriage null that we try to.
My point is not that in this case the Church is wrong. My point is that the Church has the authority to hold her and her husband bound or to loose them. If the bishop as representative of the Church says “we will not annul your marriage unless your husband goes back to a woman who may have her own life and husband by now (maybe not in the Church), without even knowing whether her husband knows of your husband’s existence, and intervenes in her life – and we can because we have that authority” then I say he has that authority. If he says, “sorry, I feel your pain but there is nothing we can do for you,” then I say, nonsense. By the Church’s teaching she has the authority and is not bound unless she binds herself.
I’m not claiming you said all that, Brad – I’m responding to a number of posters here in this one message.
Alan
Goodness gracious we all sin. Jesus ate and drank with sinners because otherwise he would have had to eat alone all the time. The Church, in Her mercy does not allow us to be in a regular and unrepentant state of sin and still receive the Body and Blood of God Himself. This is mercy because it is an additional sin to take Holy Communion in an unworthy manner.
There is a remedy in this case and it can be controlled be either the husband or the wife. God is not putting them in an impossible situation. They put themselves in a difficult situation (as we all do in the course of our lives) and God, in His infinite mercy, stands by, waiting to forgive and wash our sins clean so that we can receive Him in a worthy manner.
She will receive a fountain of grace if she were to attend mass and abstain from communion while the situation is being resolved, and, better yet, by living as brother and sister until then.
B
Brad
Guest
Jesus promised He would be with His Church always and always guide it to Truth. These decisions are not being made in isolation or on the whim of a particular Bishop. The law of the Church is based on Scripture, Tradition, and Magisterial Teaching - which does not change regarding morals and doctrine and can be relied on faithfully because Jesus said as such.
Men will always sin. Jesus provides us a spotless bride of a Church despite this fact. Praise be to God.
V
vatoco6
Guest
My husband’s point is, as AlanFromWichita said, that my husband has no clue where his ex-wife is, if she’s remarried (children are unlikely, as she did not want children and has had abortions in the past) and if her significant other even knows about her first marriage. He feels it would be rude and unfeeling to upset her by demanding answers of her on my behalf.
I am willing to try to pursue his annulment on my own. I never met his ex-wife, but if I am ever to belong to the Church again, this is what I must do.
But maybe folks like Crusader and Anna (see prior posts in this thread) are right…if I can’t take the pain of being rejected by clergy and make it my own fault…if I can’t get over the fact that the Church is not there to serve me in any way…if I can’t get over not being wanted in the Church I grew up in, regardless of how many hoops I jump through…maybe I should just stop trying to belong. I have done lots of volunteer work for the Church, especially in the past 6 years. It doesn’t seem to matter.
I mean, when I dropped out of RCIA after getting the no-contact letter, the deacon teaching it didn’t even call me to find out what happened. Where is he now? Directing a Religious Ed program in a bigger church!
There must be a church that wants me…anybody got any ideas?
I am willing to try to pursue his annulment on my own. I never met his ex-wife, but if I am ever to belong to the Church again, this is what I must do.
But maybe folks like Crusader and Anna (see prior posts in this thread) are right…if I can’t take the pain of being rejected by clergy and make it my own fault…if I can’t get over the fact that the Church is not there to serve me in any way…if I can’t get over not being wanted in the Church I grew up in, regardless of how many hoops I jump through…maybe I should just stop trying to belong. I have done lots of volunteer work for the Church, especially in the past 6 years. It doesn’t seem to matter.
I mean, when I dropped out of RCIA after getting the no-contact letter, the deacon teaching it didn’t even call me to find out what happened. Where is he now? Directing a Religious Ed program in a bigger church!
There must be a church that wants me…anybody got any ideas?
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triciafrancess
Guest
Dearest Therese,
I hadn’t had contact with my ex-husband for over 30 years. I was actually able to find him easily on the Internet, but procrastinated for months before I worked up the nerve to contact him. I wrote him a letter assuring him I had no intention of interfering in his life (I didn’t know if he was remarried, etc.), but that I wanted to let him know I was filing for a “Catholic annulment,” which in no way affected any legal documents or records. I told him he’d be receiving documents from the Church, but that he didn’t need to respond to them. (The documents are sent registered mail, so the ex has to sign for them, but your husband doesn’t need to demand answers on your behalf. The ex can simply ignore the papers and the annulment process still moves forward.)
If someone isn’t able to locate their ex-spouse, there are alternatives which involve documenting the steps taken to locate him or her. Those involve checking phone directories in last know areas of residence, running newspaper ads, contacting friends and relatives, and signing an affidavit. The annulment would then proceed with the statement and witnesses provided by your husband.
There is a lot of paperwork to file and if your husband eventually agrees, you’ll probably hear a lot of grumbling, but I think you have every reason to believe there are grounds for an annulment, particularly based on their young ages and the immaturity she showed by abandoning your husband and running off with someone else.
One other possibility – if you should discover that his ex-wife has passed away, your husband doesn’t need to obtain an annulment.
I don’t know why you’ve been so battered and bruised in your attempts to return to the Church. It’s easy for me to say your suffering will help you appreciate it all the more when it finally happens – but I don’t know whether that’s true. It seems a shame, after all you’ve been through, to give up now. I pray that you’ll persevere.
Please feel to contact me privately at any time.
Love,
Tricia Frances
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Sonya
Guest
vatoco6,
You are welcome at our Catholic Church. It is just that in the U.S.A. in order to vote you must first become a citizen, as it is in the Catholic Church you must become a member so that you can receive the sacraments. Now in order to do this you must obey God’s commandments as must we all. If you must make a hard decision to separate from your boyfriend until he gets an annulment so that you can recieve the sacraments then do and you are putting God first.
Sometimes it is hard to do what is right, but you will not regret coming to the Catholic Church. There are groups you can join in the Church to give you support. The Apostolate for Family of Consecration is one and if you go to www.familyland.org you can learn more about it. We do want you to be with us and you can go to mass even though you may not receive the sacraments yet. Your priest can give you a blessing. All you have to do is ask. Also Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist; Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. He is the reason to make all these sacrafices to be able to recieve Him physically as well as spiritually. It is awesome and I wouldn’t want anyone not to have a way to recieve Him. He is the reason I do not leave the Catholic Church, because then I would leave Him not the people.
In my life I had to make hard decisions. I had a boyfriend once who was only Catholic by name who was very selfish and would not obey Jesus because he would not obey what His Church asked him to do. He wouldn’t go to confession or give up his pornographic magazines, yet he still went to communion which was awful. I wanted him as a boyfriend because he helped out at a youth group and I thought he was a good Catholic guy. Next thing I find out that he just was selfish. I stayed with him for a long time thinking that maybe one day he would see the light, but I was wrong. He just hated when I told him that he was doing the wrong thing and that he should look at what our Church teaches and listen. Finally I had to face the sad truth that my own spiritual life was in danger and I had to move on. He was the first guy that I really thought I was in love with, but I pulled myself away because I did not want to marry him later on. This is because he would not be a good father to teach my children morals. Any way sorry for the long story but please do what is right. Ask your Archbishop how you can do what is right despite what he does not do; if that be to separate until he gets an annullment, then do it and offer this sacrafice to Jesus for your boyfriend to do the right thing too. That way you will be a good leader and later on you will be in a better position to encourage your boyfriend to get the annullment.
You are welcome at our Catholic Church. It is just that in the U.S.A. in order to vote you must first become a citizen, as it is in the Catholic Church you must become a member so that you can receive the sacraments. Now in order to do this you must obey God’s commandments as must we all. If you must make a hard decision to separate from your boyfriend until he gets an annulment so that you can recieve the sacraments then do and you are putting God first.
Sometimes it is hard to do what is right, but you will not regret coming to the Catholic Church. There are groups you can join in the Church to give you support. The Apostolate for Family of Consecration is one and if you go to www.familyland.org you can learn more about it. We do want you to be with us and you can go to mass even though you may not receive the sacraments yet. Your priest can give you a blessing. All you have to do is ask. Also Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist; Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. He is the reason to make all these sacrafices to be able to recieve Him physically as well as spiritually. It is awesome and I wouldn’t want anyone not to have a way to recieve Him. He is the reason I do not leave the Catholic Church, because then I would leave Him not the people.
In my life I had to make hard decisions. I had a boyfriend once who was only Catholic by name who was very selfish and would not obey Jesus because he would not obey what His Church asked him to do. He wouldn’t go to confession or give up his pornographic magazines, yet he still went to communion which was awful. I wanted him as a boyfriend because he helped out at a youth group and I thought he was a good Catholic guy. Next thing I find out that he just was selfish. I stayed with him for a long time thinking that maybe one day he would see the light, but I was wrong. He just hated when I told him that he was doing the wrong thing and that he should look at what our Church teaches and listen. Finally I had to face the sad truth that my own spiritual life was in danger and I had to move on. He was the first guy that I really thought I was in love with, but I pulled myself away because I did not want to marry him later on. This is because he would not be a good father to teach my children morals. Any way sorry for the long story but please do what is right. Ask your Archbishop how you can do what is right despite what he does not do; if that be to separate until he gets an annullment, then do it and offer this sacrafice to Jesus for your boyfriend to do the right thing too. That way you will be a good leader and later on you will be in a better position to encourage your boyfriend to get the annullment.
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
Dear Sonya,
Ditto that. I can understand feeling unwelcome, though, when she receives a letter from the pastor telling her she is, well, unwelcome, and completely shunning her.
I don’t remember. Are there children involved? I thought there were because we pointed out there were none with the previous marriage but when I scrolled up and reread some posts I couldn’t find it. If there are children living at home and the parents separate, that’s going to be a tough one to explain to them without souring them on the Church. That is, unless by separation you meant to include living together in abstinence as an option.
Alan
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jc_escobar
Guest
Hi Vatoco6,
One thing that you have to realize, is that this is not about how good or bad other people inside the Church have been. But rather it is a matter of saving you own soul. God sometimes ask us to renounce to something that is most precious to us, this, for us to really be able to ebrace Him and receive his grace.
As Jesus put it vry plainly: "If anyone comes to me without hating his father and mother,
wife and children, brothers and sisters,
and even his own life,
he cannot be my disciple.
Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after me
cannot be my disciple.
Which of you wishing to construct a tower
does not first sit down and calculate the cost
to see if there is enough for its completion?
Otherwise, after laying the foundation
and finding himself unable to finish the work
the onlookers should laugh at him and say,
‘This one began to build but did not have the resources to finish.’
Or what king marching into battle would not first sit down
and decide whether with ten thousand troops
he can successfully oppose another king
advancing upon him with twenty thousand troops?
But if not, while he is still far away,
he will send a delegation to ask for peace terms.
In the same way,
anyone of you who does not renounce all his possessions
cannot be my disciple."Lk 14:25-33
God has given you a cross to carry and I believe if He has done so, it is because he wants you to come to Him.
Ask yourself if you really want to come back home and what are you willing to give up for that.
Please note that you don’t have to give up loving your husband or even living with him. You just have to leave as brother and syster. On the one hand this will automatically allow you to go for confession and then receive the Eucarist. On the other hand it can put some pressure on your husband to seek the anulment.
By giving up something you want when God ask you to, you will be saving your soul and as St. Paul says you might be saving you husband too. Plus maybe God will give him back to you.
It is really up to you.
How much do you want to be in communion with Christ?
Blessings,
J.C.
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Augustine
Guest
Please, don’t leave the Church even if if you feel abandoned by her. Even priests make mistakes, but Jesus founded her and He cannot be found anywhere else, right there before your eyes.
And keep in mind that we must serve, not expect that others serve us.
Seize the other sacraments, especially of Reconciliation, albeit partial. Seize God’s grace from attending Mass, reading the Bible, praying. Beg to Our Lady and St. Joseph for you and your husband. Strive to live like they did, even if imperfectly.
God is faithful, God is merciful, God is patient.
V
vatoco6
Guest
Well, here’s what I think I’m going to do…
I can’t go to Mass now anyway, because I work weekend nights (Th - Sun). And I’ve been cast out by my former pastor anyway. So, it’s kind of a moot point.
I can continue to read and study at home, pray, and I don’t think that pressuring my husband to get an annullment will do any good.
I guess that’s it, then. Thank you for your kind attention and replies.
Therese
I can’t go to Mass now anyway, because I work weekend nights (Th - Sun). And I’ve been cast out by my former pastor anyway. So, it’s kind of a moot point.
I can continue to read and study at home, pray, and I don’t think that pressuring my husband to get an annullment will do any good.
I guess that’s it, then. Thank you for your kind attention and replies.
Therese
S
shannin
Guest
My Archbishop’s only suggestion was waiting until my husband dies. (He’s 46.) Then I can be readmitted into full Communion with the Church…when I’m what, 90?
Is this true? Please tell me there’s another way.
Dear Vatoco,
It’s true that if your husband would die, you would be able to receive the sacraments, BUT, you make it sound like it was a SUGGESTION of your Archbishop…as if it is something to look forward to. I’m sure he didn’t mean it the way you imply.
You knew that your husband had been previously married **before **you married him. I’m assuming that you knew the rules of the Catholic Church.
The hardest part of obtaining an annulment is filling out the questions and it’s too bad that your husband doesn’t realize how important this is to you.
The Church is not picking on you - Catholics are not free to divorce and remarry without a Church annulment. The Church makes Catholics accountable for every part of our lives and we need the Church to determine if the marriage was truly sacramental.
I don’t meant to sound harsh but this is the way it is and I’m not aware of any “other way”.
Blessings,
Shannin
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Brad
Guest
WHAT???
Not going to Mass is no solution at all!
You can go to mass withough receiving communion. You can receive tremendous graces for doings so, especially considering that you may be tired from working the previous night. If you long for the Eucharsist, yet cannot receive, you are potentially receiving more grace than if you could receive, and certainly more than those that take such a gift for granted.
Further, you can work towards those solutions suggested here and by the Church so that you can receive communion.
Longing for the Body and Blood of Jesus can bring great grace and blessing to your life. You will be rewarded by God for your perseverance.
Throwing in the towel can do damage to your soul. It is additional sin to miss mass on Sunday. It is not a sin to abstain for communion.
I will continue to pray for you.
S
shannin
Guest
Well, here’s what I think I’m going to do…
I can’t go to Mass now anyway, because I work weekend nights (Th - Sun). And I’ve been cast out by my former pastor anyway. So, it’s kind of a moot point.
Vataco 6,
*
*Maybe I missed the reason but why did your former paster cast you out? I’ve never heard of a priest casting someone out of Church. *
**
Not being able to receive the Eucharist because of a divorce is one thing, but to actually cast someone out of Church is another. I have a feeling there’s more to this than meets the eye.
**
Shannin
V
vatoco6
Guest
Hi, Shannin -
I was written a “no contact, in any way” letter by my ex-pastor because he fell in love with me.
Sheesh. I’ll be 44 on Saturday, I’m about 75 lbs overweight, graying, dumpy, and have been married almost 21 years to the same guy. We have 4 children. (My children swear the guy must have been struck blind by celibacy!)
My ex-pastor KNEW I was married and had kids. I had NO idea why his behavior changed…it just did, over the course of a day. He went from having been a dear friend, my pastor, my spiritual director to talking to me literally through his teeth. He gave me NO reason, but did have a 2 hour long phone discussion with my best friend where he accused me of “coming on” to him. (This was when I was so depressed at losing my friend, my faith community, and my last chance to return to the Church that I seriously contemplated suicide.I had had a LOT of loss in the past year or so…he knew all this, and still did what he did. He MUST have been rewarded for his cruelty to me, because he’s still there, and according to my friends, acts as if I never existed.)
His idea of being “hit on” was about things like praying together, sharing a prayer book…and our legs touched. And I kissed him on the CHEEK. (Oh, mercy…I am such a hussy!) When my best friend, who is a Mormon, pointed out to him that in her mind, I had done nothing sexual, and in fact had no clue of loving him as anything but a friend and brother in Christ, he finally admitted his feelings for me. I got the "no contact letter) ten days later. What a schmuck.
This is a guy who was in the Navy for eleven years prior to joining the priesthood. He’s no virgin. But he never discussed ANY of his feelings for me with me. He just started acting like a jerk one day.
Yup, there was more to the story. And I will scream if one more bitter old celibate priest tries to tell me that women are dangerous to a man’s vocation! Why does it always have to be someone else’s (like my) fault when a priest screws up?
I was written a “no contact, in any way” letter by my ex-pastor because he fell in love with me.
Sheesh. I’ll be 44 on Saturday, I’m about 75 lbs overweight, graying, dumpy, and have been married almost 21 years to the same guy. We have 4 children. (My children swear the guy must have been struck blind by celibacy!)
My ex-pastor KNEW I was married and had kids. I had NO idea why his behavior changed…it just did, over the course of a day. He went from having been a dear friend, my pastor, my spiritual director to talking to me literally through his teeth. He gave me NO reason, but did have a 2 hour long phone discussion with my best friend where he accused me of “coming on” to him. (This was when I was so depressed at losing my friend, my faith community, and my last chance to return to the Church that I seriously contemplated suicide.I had had a LOT of loss in the past year or so…he knew all this, and still did what he did. He MUST have been rewarded for his cruelty to me, because he’s still there, and according to my friends, acts as if I never existed.)
His idea of being “hit on” was about things like praying together, sharing a prayer book…and our legs touched. And I kissed him on the CHEEK. (Oh, mercy…I am such a hussy!) When my best friend, who is a Mormon, pointed out to him that in her mind, I had done nothing sexual, and in fact had no clue of loving him as anything but a friend and brother in Christ, he finally admitted his feelings for me. I got the "no contact letter) ten days later. What a schmuck.
This is a guy who was in the Navy for eleven years prior to joining the priesthood. He’s no virgin. But he never discussed ANY of his feelings for me with me. He just started acting like a jerk one day.
Yup, there was more to the story. And I will scream if one more bitter old celibate priest tries to tell me that women are dangerous to a man’s vocation! Why does it always have to be someone else’s (like my) fault when a priest screws up?
A
Augustine
Guest
It sure does not. Without knowing both sides of the story, it’s impossible to reach a fair conclusion.
Regardless, I’d tell you to go to another parish. Yes, we’re not supposed to “shop” for parishes, but we can only do so much.
I’d also add to not confuse a priest with the Church. As St. Teresa pointed out, sometimes the Lord does put hurdles on our way to try us, sometimes even members of His own Church.
God bless,
- Status