I can't receive sacraments because of my husband

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vatoco6:
I have been informed (by my Archbishop, no less) that I can’t receive Communion or make a Confession without my husband having his first (brief, teenaged) marriage annulled.

My husband
  1. doesn’t want to revisit his first marriage in any way, some 25 years after the fact,
  2. would really prefer I NOT “come home” to the Church after 20 years away (long story), and
  3. thinks 21 years of marriage is long enough to make our marriage valid in ANY church!
So, what do I do? Can I get his first marriage annulled by myself? And what’s the point of going to Mass when I can’t participate?

Therese
You should indeed consult a canon lawyer and/or the marriage tribunal within your archdiocese. Lay-out the facts so you can get some expert advice.

You also need to ponder the idea that his first marriage was indeed valid and that it will not be anulled.
 
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ricatholic:
Please read what you quoted, this women divorced no one yet she can’t receive Jesus.
I wasn’t really quoting, only trying to paraphrase from memory. Here is the actual quote:
Some Pharisees came up to him and said, to test him, ‘May a man divorce his wife for any reason whatever?’

He replied, ‘Have you not read that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female and declared, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and cling to his wife, and the two shall become as one?’ Thus they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore, let no man separate what God has joined.’

They said to him, ‘Then why did Moses command divorce and the promulgation of a divorce decree?’ ‘Because of your stubbornness Moses let you divorce your wives,’ he replied; ‘but at the beginning it was not that way. I now say to you, whoever divorces his wife (lewd conduct is a separate case) and marries another, commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.’ (Mt 19:3-9) (NAB)
In effect, Jesus declares marriage to be permanent. The church recognizes this teaching.

Now admittedly, there are a lot of declarations of nullity being granted nowadays. I can only presume that this is because there a lot of null “marriages” taking place–i.e. people who attempt marriage without a valid intent or capacity. But the Church always presumes a marriage to be valid until proven otherwise.

JimG
 
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fix:
You obviously hold heretical views. The Church has the fullness of truth. She teaches and is custodian of all that Christ has revealed to us. That is objective truth. You reject that.

I asked you before if you are a Catholic? Are you?
I obviously hold heretical views, DUH.

I believe that the church has all the tools Jesus gave her. However she has decided to not use all of them and in some instances uses tools that weren’t given to her by Jesus.

Case in point, the deposit of truth doesn’t deceive its congregation in the manner that our church has done regarding abuse. Lack of impeccability is not an excuse that can be used in matters that clearly show rejection of Jesus’ teachings.

The church claims the ministry of discernment for its bishops(and JP2 is a bishop) yet either the doctrine is false or the holy spirit has acted upon the prayers of the bishops regarding abuse and has decided that abuse is OK if it spares the church scandal or else the bishops have rejected the holy spirits advice.

In either case, either the ministry of discernment (a doctrine) is false or the holy spirit has advised in a manner that is clearly contradictory to Jesus’ teachings or else the bishops and pope are not qualified to lead our church.

So unless you think abuse is OK and the holy spirit condones it. Or you believe that the holy spirit acts in contrast to Jesus and invalidate the trinity doctrine . Or you don’t think the holy spirit would respond to requests to help discern abuse issues or else the church is not all she is cracked up to be.

But in reality it doesn’t matter. We know the Vatican has deceived us before. So does that invalidate His message ? No.

Does it invalidate its credibility? Yes.

Do I give authority to those that aren’t credible? No!

Do you?

Peace
 
Therese, I was in a similar situation when I decided to return to the Church 10 years ago. I was the one who needed to tend to my first, brief, childless marriage. The hard part for me, was getting my present husband to commit to having our marriage validated in the church after being married civilally (sp?) for 10 years. My priest told me we were “living in mortal sin”. I was mortified! My husband is Protestant and attended mass with me occassionally. Everytime i had to pass on Holy Communion, I would weep. Not outwardly sobbing or anything, but a quiet, mournful weep. I prayed very hard during my weeping and finally one day after mass he announced he would go talk to the priest with me to have our marriage blessed.

Never think when you are at mass and do not receive that God’s angels are not surrounding you and providing you with God’s grace. Keep praying. If your husband truly loves you, he’ll see how this is hurting you and sacrifice revisiting his first marriage.

I’ll be praying for you.

Deanna
 
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Deanna:
Therese, I was in a similar situation when I decided to return to the Church 10 years ago. I was the one who needed to tend to my first, brief, childless marriage. The hard part for me, was getting my present husband to commit to having our marriage validated in the church after being married civilally (sp?) for 10 years. My priest told me we were “living in mortal sin”. I was mortified! My husband is Protestant and attended mass with me occassionally. Everytime i had to pass on Holy Communion, I would weep. Not outwardly sobbing or anything, but a quiet, mournful weep. I prayed very hard during my weeping and finally one day after mass he announced he would go talk to the priest with me to have our marriage blessed.

Never think when you are at mass and do not receive that God’s angels are not surrounding you and providing you with God’s grace. Keep praying. If your husband truly loves you, he’ll see how this is hurting you and sacrifice revisiting his first marriage.

I’ll be praying for you.

Deanna
Isn’t it nice how the church avoids settling a problem that it creates by placing the onus on a person who isn’t even a part of our church?

That really is an example of Jesus’ teachings in action.

Peace
 
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ricatholic:
Isn’t it nice how the church avoids settling a problem that it creates by placing the onus on a person who isn’t even a part of our church?

That really is an example of Jesus’ teachings in action.

Peace
The Church created the problem? So the Church held a gun to her head and made her marry a man that was already married in the eyes of the Church?

Very strange reasoning here. But then you admit your not a Catholic so I guess it is to be expected.
 
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ByzCath:
The Church created the problem? So the Church held a gun to her head and made her marry a man that was already married in the eyes of the Church?

Very strange reasoning here. But then you admit your not a Catholic so I guess it is to be expected.
But it is Ok that the church now hold a gun to her head and say that she get her first husbands marriage annuled.

" Sure we would like to forgive you, but before you can receive the lord out of the hands of an abuse condoning bishop, we must require that you make yourself worthy by getting us to agree with your husband when he says that he wasn’t really married the first time he got married" Totally plausible example and likely to have happened.

Peace
 
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ricatholic:
But it is Ok that the church now hold a gun to her head and say that she get her first husbands marriage annuled.
Actually they are not saying that.

The Church is saying not to approach the Eucharist until she stops sinning.

If she lives with her “husband” as brother and sister and goes to Confession I am sure the Church would welcome her to the Eucharist as they do with all repentant sinners who Confess and have the intention to “sin no more”.
 
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ByzCath:
Actually they are not saying that.

The Church is saying not to approach the Eucharist until she stops sinning.

If she lives with her “husband” as brother and sister and goes to Confession I am sure the Church would welcome her to the Eucharist as they do with all repentant sinners who Confess and have the intention to “sin no more”.
That’s just so real and Christlike. But it explains why so many people cut off their fellow parishoners in the parking lot minutes after receiving Jesus at communion.

Peace
 
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ricatholic:
I obviously hold heretical views, DUH.

I believe that the church has all the tools Jesus gave her. However she has decided to not use all of them and in some instances uses tools that weren’t given to her by Jesus.

Case in point, the deposit of truth doesn’t deceive its congregation in the manner that our church has done regarding abuse. Lack of impeccability is not an excuse that can be used in matters that clearly show rejection of Jesus’ teachings.

The church claims the ministry of discernment for its bishops(and JP2 is a bishop) yet either the doctrine is false or the holy spirit has acted upon the prayers of the bishops regarding abuse and has decided that abuse is OK if it spares the church scandal or else the bishops have rejected the holy spirits advice.

In either case, either the ministry of discernment (a doctrine) is false or the holy spirit has advised in a manner that is clearly contradictory to Jesus’ teachings or else the bishops and pope are not qualified to lead our church.

So unless you think abuse is OK and the holy spirit condones it. Or you believe that the holy spirit acts in contrast to Jesus and invalidate the trinity doctrine . Or you don’t think the holy spirit would respond to requests to help discern abuse issues or else the church is not all she is cracked up to be.

But in reality it doesn’t matter. We know the Vatican has deceived us before. So does that invalidate His message ? No.

Does it invalidate its credibility? Yes.

Do I give authority to those that aren’t credible? No!

Do you?

Peace
Your views on the Church scandal are tainting your overall view of the Church.

My suggestion is to stop attempting to give this woman spiritual advice that has eternal life and death consequences while you are in this state.

The priest involved in the abuse scandal were sinners. Don’t use this sin as an excuse to encourage others to also be sinners.
 
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Brad:
In this situation, the much bigger issue is sin, not the embarrassment of not receiving Jesus Christ as Mass. Believe you me, we all need to look a little harder at ourselves before we receive almighty God Himself, who poured out His blood for us, in the Eucharist. It’s not just people in this situation - it’s all of us that sin during the week, don’t go to confession, and still receive the Body of Christ.

Marriage is intended to be permanent. There are many reasons for this. It is because we look at it so temporarily that we move to saying all these different kinds of relationships are ok for raising children. We must obey Jesus Christ and not try to find a priest or Biship that will squeak us by. That puts us on the wrong path - a path that could put our soul in jeopardy.
Dear Brad,

How could any issue be bigger than not being allowed to receive Jesus Christ at Mass?

Christ ate and drank with sinners, saying He came for sinners, not for the righteous. He also said “unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life within you.” Therefore, excommunication – when it cannot be remedied by confession – removes a vital lifeline from the person. Even if this is not a “lifetime” excommunications, such as if the annulment is in the works and will take a few months, it is still a removal of a lifeline for a period of time. I consider excommunication to be the spiritual equivalent of abortion. I can understand that in some cases Mother Church would feel the need to do that in self-defense if her own spiritual life were threatened. However, if she has the keys to the kingdom of heaven, then God will back her up if she goes out on a limb and lets one sinner back in. People do make mistakes, and that may be why ricatholic meant brought “forgiveness” into the picture. Mercy has power over sin, does it not?

Marriage is intended to be permanent. When I first heard of annulments I was rather shocked. By the success of most annulment attempts, it seems that “what God has joined together let no man separate” must be more often lip service than actual fact, if we can successfully nitpick with enough lawyers to declare most any marriage null that we try to.

My point is not that in this case the Church is wrong. My point is that the Church has the authority to hold her and her husband bound or to loose them. If the bishop as representative of the Church says “we will not annul your marriage unless your husband goes back to a woman who may have her own life and husband by now (maybe not in the Church), without even knowing whether her husband knows of your husband’s existence, and intervenes in her life – and we can because we have that authority” then I say he has that authority. If he says, “sorry, I feel your pain but there is nothing we can do for you,” then I say, nonsense. By the Church’s teaching she has the authority and is not bound unless she binds herself.

I’m not claiming you said all that, Brad – I’m responding to a number of posters here in this one message.🙂

Alan
 
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ricatholic:
In this case it is doubly stupid because the women, if we assume the facts are correct is being held responsible for the sins of her spouse. Absent the actions of her husband, she is not in sin. Jesus said we are not responsible for the sins of our fathers and that should also apply to this case.
Dear ricatholic,

You bring up a good point, but I can only agree conditionally. Did she say that she knew she was marrying an ineligible man at the time, and that she knew at the time her current marriage was not going to be valid? If so, then maybe she was the one who sinned. I don’t remember that she’s rung in on that or not, so I’m not sure. If not, and she really didn’t know about this until much later, then maybe she is being held responsible for the sin of her spouse – that sin being at least that he wants to stay married without going through the annulment.

To the point about sins of our fathers not applying in this case, I don’t think it is an even comparison, so I tentatively disagree with you here. A man leaves his father and mother and cleaves unto his wife, and the two become one. When the husband sins, he is one body with his wife, so I’m not so sure Jesus’ teaching can be applied the way you have. If they are one flesh, how can one be sinful and the other not? That said, Jesus said that in heaven nobody will be married, so maybe I’m all wet here.

Alan
 
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Brad:
Your views on the Church scandal are tainting your overall view of the Church.

My suggestion is to stop attempting to give this woman spiritual advice that has eternal life and death consequences while you are in this state.

The priest involved in the abuse scandal were sinners. Don’t use this sin as an excuse to encourage others to also be sinners.
Actually what I am telling this women is that Christ is the answer and if she feels she needs Christ then go get Him. As to tainting other issues what the abuse issue really shows is that the decision making ability of the leaders of our church can not be relied upon in matters concerning sin and morals. They have acted just as any other men would have acted when faced with crimes like this, first they hid, now they deny. But in doing so they deny Christ because any of these victims or their parents could have been as Jesus said - the least in the guise of Him.

And BTW, the problem isn’t really with the priests, the rate of abuse among priests is similar to that of the population. The greatest sins are those commited by the bishops from here to the vatican, JP2 included, who allowed abuse to continue so as to cover their own backsides and preserve their status as princes of the church.

Peace
 
So unless you think abuse is OK and the holy spirit condones it. Or you believe that the holy spirit acts in contrast to Jesus and invalidate the trinity doctrine . Or you don’t think the holy spirit would respond to requests to help discern abuse issues or else the church is not all she is cracked up to be.
Abuse is not teaching error. When has the Church taught error?
 
Hi, I’m Therese, the woman who posted the original question.

I must thank all of you for your replies. It is obvious you care deeply about your faith.

As for me, well…my husband WAS willing to marry in the Church, until my pastor a the time refused to allow him to read papers he had to sign (regarding things like agreeing to raise our kids Catholic).

His ex-wife and he have never been Catholic. She never wanted kids. Would she admit to that now? Who knows? She was 20, he was 19, and it was 3 1/2 years from “I do” to divorce decree. She left him, joined the Navy, and ran off with a sailor.

I caught the aforementioned pastor in a lover’s tryst with his boyfriend a year later, which was the last straw for me. I left the Church. See, I was beaten by nuns as a kid, and I have at least 2 brothers that could belong to SNAP. I saw way too much hypocrisy in the Church, though I did have decent pastors as a teenager. I had no INTENT of coming back to the Church when I married.

Almost 21 years later, I’ve seen what’s out there. I missed my Jesus. I missed my saints. And I know now that our Church is the one true Church.

I still had no intent of returning until a priest with whom I was working on Catholic Charities issues (I have been a local board rep for the last 6 years) started regularly asking me to return to the Church. After knowing him and considering him a friend for over 2 years, I accepted his offer last October. I figured I could trust him.

3 1/2 months later, I thought we had become close friends. Over the course of a DAY, he went from being a dear close friend to talking to me through his teeth. No explanation.

To this day, I have not heard from him what caused him to turn against me. And two months after his change in behavior (he by this time had also become my pastor and my spiritual director), he wrote me a letter on parish letterhead asking for me to have no contact with him in any way. (I had called him twice in the three weeks prior to receiving the letter, just to try to find out what happened. I would hardly call that stalking.)

My husband is FURIOUS. He doesn’t want me to have any more to do with a Church that treats its members this way. So he refuses to cooperate with the annulment…and here I am.

I feel compelled to keep trying to return “home”, but I seem to have locked myself out, and no one will let me in.
 
My Dearest Therese,

After reading your last post I am moved to the point of tears, and though I completely understand both you and your husbands frustration, I beg and implore you not to give up. Your pain is palpable as is the sense of betrayal and abandonment that anyone would feel. In a sense you are blessed, no less than God himself accepted betrayal and abandonment to accomplish the will of the Father. So be certain that God DOES HAVE a greater will to accomplish through your suffering. Remember the story of Joseph? How much pain he must have felt to be sold by his own flesh and blood into slavery, only then to be maltreated. But because of his faith and perseverance he was put in a place to be the ‘salvation’ of his family when the famine fell upon Palestine. Keep your faith, persevere and God will turn what has so far been bad into a good you cannot even yet concieve!

There has been some very good advice in this thread and I’m sure you can discern which it has been. Prayer and faith is the key here. Pray for those who wronged you and forgive them. Pray for forgiveness for whatever has been sinful in your life up till now. Pray for you husband that Christ will soften his heart on this matter. Have faith that all your prayers will answered by God, though respect that God has HIS TIME and HIS WAYS!

Also read Colosians 1:24 “Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of His body, which is the Church.” Paul offers up what he suffered and unites it with Christ’s so it will be applied for the sake of the Church, and thereby it will be dispersed not only upon the members of the Church which make up Christ’s body, but in some respect back upon Paul himself. It is in giving that we recieve! It is is dying that we are born again!
:amen:

I and so many others will be praying for you, God bless you and your family

Greg
 
To ricatholic:

If your math teacher didn’t balance his checkbook, would that make math any less true? Just because someone who teaches a truth can’t live it doesn’t make it any less true.

Christ knew there would be BOTH sinners (tares) and saints (wheat) in His field (Church) so we should not be surprised. We need to pray for both the victim (for their suffering) and the priest (that he repent his sin and seek forgiveness), but denying Christ (and His body which is the Church) we would be no better than the disciples who abandoned Christ after His discourse on the bread of life. They left Him because they could not accept His teaching which with their lack of faith seemed indigestible (pun intended 🙂 ).

May God always keep you in His grace and lead you always to Himself and the Church. I pray He will do the same for me.

Peace

Greg
 
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vatoco6:
Hi, I’m Therese, the woman who posted the original question…

My husband is FURIOUS. He doesn’t want me to have any more to do with a Church that treats its members this way. So he refuses to cooperate with the annulment…and here I am.

I feel compelled to keep trying to return “home”, but I seem to have locked myself out, and no one will let me in.
Why did you just spend several paragraphs dumping on the Church while attempting to justify your actions and those of your husband?

Are you certain you understand what it means to be a Catholic Christian? The Catholic Church is not a cafeteria where we can pick and choose what we want to accept or reject.

I think you have some work to do before you are ready to return Home.
 
To Crusader,

Perhaps you yourself could consider what it means to be a Christian (yes I believe and follow the Church in completio).Where is your compassion? The heart of our Lord is MERCY. Her husband having been abused has suffered at the hands of those who were supposed to shepherd, and through many other circumstances so has she. His reaction may be twisted from concupisence (something we all share) and needs to be remolded in the light of Christ’s love, but to chastise her is not charitable. If she was apostizing, scandalizing the Church, speaking ill of our Lord etc. then corrective tone might be appropriate or necessary, but in her state I don’t believe it is what will help her back into the bosom of Christ and His Church. She needs sound moral advice based on the teachings of the Church, prayer and reassurance of God’s abiding love and Catholic fellowship. Which of these did you provide? (Forgive me in advance if it seems that I’m attacking you, I do not mean to, honestly). :bowdown:

In Christ,

Greg
 
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vatoco6:
I have been informed (by my Archbishop, no less) that I can’t receive Communion or make a Confession without my husband having his first (brief, teenaged) marriage annulled.

My husband
  1. doesn’t want to revisit his first marriage in any way, some 25 years after the fact,
  2. would really prefer I NOT “come home” to the Church after 20 years away (long story), and
  3. thinks 21 years of marriage is long enough to make our marriage valid in ANY church!
So, what do I do? Can I get his first marriage annulled by myself? And what’s the point of going to Mass when I can’t participate?

Therese
Seems to be all about him doesn’t it? He doesn’t want to revisit his first marriage in any way - too bad! What about your feelings?
Isn’t it all really about #2 - which, again, is all about him. He doesn’t want it therefore he has no obligation to you. He’s being selfish. He’s probably afraid of some changes in your lives - have you talked about what he’s actually afraid of?
21 years is long enough to know that people change and grow.
It really doesn’t make sense to not want to “revisit” this prior marriage - this is a chance to more fully leave it in the past. It sounds like it still is impacting his present for him to seek to avoid it at all costs. He should be supporting you, not holding you back because of his own fears…
 
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