I don't know if I can stand this anymore - mi kids

[minkymurph]

I didn’t say that people addicted to sweets would have a problem with alcohol. I was only seconding the information I heard that alcoholism has a lot to do with the sugar levels of a person. Control the sugar levels and you will not have so much of a craving to go back and drink and thus won’t have such a hard battle to fight. I do realize that not every alcoholic out there drinks because of this, but it is something to try for those who may want to.

I think there is something in what you say. My husband doesn’t drink tea or coffee, but he lives on energy drinks with a high caffeine and sugar content. I thinks it makes him ratty as he is burning all the time. He either can’t relax or he is shattered. The things he gets annoyed about! I have said to him loads of times is there any need to get into the state he does about things that are ultimately trivial? They are annoying, yes. But he is letting the annoyance control him, as opposed to choosing not to let things that don’t really matter and we have no control over annoy him to the extent they do.

 

[EasterJoy]

As if I would make excuses. Your absolutely right I would. Truth is, I’m scared. I’m not good at just going round to a group and saying, ‘Hi I’m here.’ I feel embarrassed. What embarrasses me if people seeing me going in, and the fact I might see someone I know there. I feel embarrassed to ask for support in that it may make me look weak to others. They pity me and feel sorry for me which is last thing I want. I want real friends, not people who feel sorry for me. A real friend doesn’t feel sorry for you. They have empathy for you but don’t pity you. That is just patronizing. It also makes me feel vulnerable. When you reach out for help and admit you need support, you can regret it.

Also, it’s a small world here. You couldn’t scratch yourself but everyone will know. When I got engaged, I found out I was related to my husband. Not unusual here.

I also feel it’s as bit disloyal. It’s one thing to talk on the internet where you have anonymity, but an open forum? On the other hand it may be a good thing because people who know my husband know he has his faults, but think he is a good guy. I’m just not good at this sort of thing. I prefer to be able to solve my own problems myself rather than lean on anyone else, because experience has taught me looking for support from others leads to disappointment.

Some people go to Al-Anon meetings two or three towns away, for this very reason. Yes, you might find some people who only want to give and take pity. I’ve also heard of people looking for a different group for that reason.

If you want to solve the problem yourself, I’d suggest Melody Beattie’s “Co-Dependent No More” as a start, the new edition. She doesn’t recommend going solo, but she does have a lot of insights and strategies in her book that might help you. Better the support you’re ready to take (and will take) than the support that you aren’t ready to take yet. The barn’s on fire; get the horses out any way you can.

 

[EasterJoy]

I think there is something in what you say. My husband doesn’t drink tea or coffee, but he lives on energy drinks with a high caffeine and sugar content. I thinks it makes him ratty as he is burning all the time. He either can’t relax or he is shattered. The things he gets annoyed about! I have said to him loads of times is there any need to get into the state he does about things that are ultimately trivial? They are annoying, yes. But he is letting the annoyance control him, as opposed to choosing not to let things that don’t really matter and we have no control over annoy him to the extent they do.

Maybe he’s self-medicating something he doesn’t want to seek outside support about, or that he thinks are problems without solutions? His attempts to cope with that “something” may not leaving him with coping skills for even the most trivial “anything else”.

 

[silenced]

When it came time for my husband and me to split, I made arrangements for a place to take my 15-month-old daughter for the weekend. I went to my husband’s place of business on a Friday and told him in this neutral territory that I wanted a divorce and why. It was advised by friends and my therapist that I do this in a neutral place so he couldn’t throw a fit and become aggressive. I went home and packed our bags and left him a note on the table that said I expected him to have found another place to live before I got home on Monday afternoon.

He did. He moved much of his belongings out over the weekend. He got an attorney and I got an attorney. It took 13 months, but I got my divorce. I was not going to let my daughter grow up in an actively alcoholic household.

A friend told me, “A leopard doesn’t change his spots”. She was right. And I was right to get out. I didn’t have a job, I had no money, but our daughter was covered under his medical insurance policy. This becomes a business, not an affair of the heart. When hope is gone and all that’s left is bitterness and regret, move on. Get out. Find a way and give your boys a good example of someone who embraces life and refuses to be trapped by a bullying man who will never be satisfied no matter what you or they do.

 

[Bill_7154]

Go to AlAnon, they will teach you how.

 

[hurting]

In the majority of cases courts will award legal custody to the mother - unless she is the problem. I could deny my husband access, but it is highly unlikely a court would. Courts also take into account who the children want to stay with and how they feel about leaving the family home. They may have to testify in the family court, or the judge speak to them privately in chambers. This is one of the reasons why many couples who split choose to sort things out between them. They don’t want a messy court battle and huge legal bills. It’s also a rare occasion when the decision of the court is exactly what one party wants. I was at a seminar last week and a current magistrate stated the last thing anyone wants to do is go to court. Attorney’s trade with each other to avoid court.

If I left I would also need somewhere to live, which would mean renting a separate property. I could also be facing crying and pleas of ‘please don’t make us go back to the other house we want to stay here’ every time they are with their father.

As far as the family home goes, why the marriage broke down has little bearing on distribution of property. The court will merely look at who owns it, which is both of us equally, and they only step in where one party wants to sell and the other doesn’t. The other option would be to have my husband evicted. It would be very difficult to persuade a court to force someone from their own home - particularly if I was not living in it. In such a situation where parties can’t agree the courts often force a sale and order the parties to split the money.

A court will grant a legal separation if a couple has lived a apart for a year. You can’t get any financial assistance unless you are legally separated. The reason for that is the welfare system is quite generous to single mothers and so many people abused the system. Separation was being used as a scam to own two properties, rent one out and pay less tax. The courts now need to be satisfied a couple are serious about separation, and don’t buy ‘trial separation.’

This is were I have the difficulty. I may be reading into this wrongly, but I feel leaving is being suggested in order to bring my husband to his senses for the purpose of restoring the marriage. If leaving would bring him to his senses, then it may well be worth the risk, but what if it doesn’t? It didn’t before. That’s why I say if I leave again it will be for good.

If children or a spouse are at risk, then yes you leave for their safety and your own. You can file for a restraining order to prevent any contact with a spouse - obviously another messy business and in my case it is highly unlikely a court would refuse my husband access. However, if things are that bad then I say the marriage is over.

It sounds as though you are well versed in the local legal procedures. One thing I’d offer is that as you seem to suspect (see bolded above), once you get the courts involved, there is likely no going back. Further, it is my view that if you really deem your husband to be a danger to yourself or your children, you would be obligated to try to cut off essentially all unsupervised contact with him. If he’s OK to be with the kids on his own for any meaningful length of time, how is that really any different from living together? I believe this is where Catholics in the U.S. have taken some license with the canons regarding separation.

I suspect that a great many folks who’d advise involving the state in a separation really do not appreciate the gravity of doing so.

 

[minkymurph]

It sounds as though you are well versed in the local legal procedures. One thing I’d offer is that as you seem to suspect (see bolded above), once you get the courts involved, there is likely no going back. Further, it is my view that if you really deem your husband to be a danger to yourself or your children, you would be obligated to try to cut off essentially all unsupervised contact with him. If he’s OK to be with the kids on his own for any meaningful length of time, how is that really any different from living together? I believe this is where Catholics in the U.S. have taken some license with the canons regarding separation.

I suspect that a great many folks who’d advise involving the state in a separation really do not appreciate the gravity of doing so.

This is exactly what I mean. If my husband was a danger to me or my children then yes, as you quite rightly say I should cut off all contact with him. If he is OK to be left with the kids on his own for any meaningful length of time, how is that different from living together? If the kids continued to have regular contact with him, which they would, and we still on occasion did things as a family together, which we would, what purpose would leaving him serve?

Once you involve the court there is no going back. Why would a court grant a restraining order, or evict someone from there own home if they are not considered a danger and they are still having regular contact with both their spouse and their kids? If a spouse does not think such an extreme measure is necessary it is highly unlikely a court will. In addition, if you leave for the purpose of putting ‘distance’ between you, there is a strong possibility the alcoholic partner will not think you are serious.

There is also the fact I have no income. Which means I may have to go to court to get maintenance if I couldn’t manage rent payments or other bills.

 

[hurting]

This is exactly what I mean. If my husband was a danger to me or my children then yes, as you quite rightly say I should cut off all contact with him. If he is OK to be left with the kids on his own for any meaningful length of time, how is that different from living together? If the kids continued to have regular contact with him, which they would, and we still on occasion did things as a family together, which we would, what purpose would leaving him serve?

Once you involve the court there is no going back. Why would a court grant a restraining order, or evict someone from there own home if they are not considered a danger and they are still having regular contact with both their spouse and their kids? If a spouse does not think such an extreme measure is necessary it is highly unlikely a court will. In addition, if you leave for the purpose of putting ‘distance’ between you, there is a strong possibility the alcoholic partner will not think you are serious.

There is also the fact I have no income. Which means I may have to go to court to get maintenance if I couldn’t manage rent payments or other bills.

It seems as though you have pretty clearly framed the issue. I would ask that you pray fervently before you involve the state in this matter. In the U.S., a father (yes it is typically a father) can be forcibly removed from his home on the basis of arguably specious claims of ‘fear’ on the part of a wife pursuant to a civil protection order; the courts supposedly err on the side of caution.

You really need to speak to a conservative priest regarding canon 1153. The fact that you’ve had the time to consider this matter over even the period of days since your original post suggests to me that the threat may not be imminent and therefore a separation absent the proper ecclesiastical approval may be ill-advised.

 

[minkymurph]

It seems as though you have pretty clearly framed the issue. I would ask that you pray fervently before you involve the state in this matter. In the U.S., a father (yes it is typically a father) can be forcibly removed from his home on the basis of arguably specious claims of ‘fear’ on the part of a wife pursuant to a civil protection order; the courts supposedly err on the side of caution.

You really need to speak to a conservative priest regarding canon 1153. The fact that you’ve had the time to consider this matter over even the period of days since your original post suggests to me that the threat may not be imminent and therefore a separation absent the proper ecclesiastical approval may be ill-advised.

I also suspect alcoholism may not be the problem. He may have mental health issues. Having said that, the mental health issue may be a consequence of alcohol. There is no way for me to know and unfortunately, being an ‘alpha male’ he can sort out his own problems and doesn’t need anyone to talk to.
He also has a tendency to do his ‘ostrich’ impersonation if something is wrong.

 

[hurting]

I also suspect alcoholism may not be the problem. He may have mental health issues. Having said that, the mental health issue may be a consequence of alcohol. There is no way for me to know and unfortunately, being an ‘alpha male’ he can sort out his own problems and doesn’t need anyone to talk to.
He also has a tendency to do his ‘ostrich’ impersonation if something is wrong.

What mental health issues do you suspect, and why? Also, I don’t understand the alpha male reference.

In the last sentence you seem to imply that your husband ignores problems (ostrich head in the sand). Perhaps you and he simply do not perceive problems or their extent in the same way.

 

[minkymurph]

What mental health issues do you suspect, and why? Also, I don’t understand the alpha male reference.

In the last sentence you seem to imply that your husband ignores problems (ostrich head in the sand). Perhaps you and he simply do not perceive problems or their extent in the same way.

He makes a huge issue out of things there is no need to make such an issue of, and he is only annoying himself. He gets really annoyed about lights being left on. Kids leave lights on and yes, they need to be told to turn them off. But he really goes over the top about it at times. He gets really annoyed and goes on and on about the way people drive and the way they park. He goes on and gets really annoyed about things that happened ages ago.

Sorry for the colloquialism. . An alpha male is like a real traditionalist male - men don’t discuss feelings women do. Men are the breadwinner and women should do most of the housework and take responsibility for bills and child rearing because they are better at it.

Ostrich impersonation - rather then deal with problems you ignore them in the hope they go away.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

How did the Al-Anon meeting go?

 

[minkymurph]

How did the Al-Anon meeting go?

No meetings until after Christmas.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

No meetings until after Christmas.

You said you were going before. And it’s now 2 days after Christmas.

 

[minkymurph]

You said you were going before. And it’s now 2 days after Christmas.

When people in this part of the world use the term ‘after Christmas,’ they mean after the Christmas period, not Christmas Day. Most people who work in the public sector get two weeks holiday at Christmas. Some Chinese take-a-ways close two weeks before Christmas Day and don’t open again until February as they go ‘home’ (meaning Hong Kong) for the Chinese New Year. I stop uni altogether two weeks before Christmas Day and don’t go back until the end of January. My husband place of work shuts down for two weeks at Christmas.
Pretty much nothing gets done over Christmas, but no one minds.

As such, ‘after Christmas’ means after everyone goes back to school/work etc. which will be the 7th of Jan.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

When people in this part of the world use the term ‘after Christmas,’ they mean after the Christmas period, not Christmas Day. Most people who work in the public sector get two weeks holiday at Christmas. Some Chinese take-a-ways close two weeks before Christmas Day and don’t open again until February as they go ‘home’ (meaning Hong Kong) for the Chinese New Year. I stop uni altogether two weeks before Christmas Day and don’t go back until the end of January. My husband place of work shuts down for two weeks at Christmas.
Pretty much nothing gets done over Christmas, but no one minds.

As such, ‘after Christmas’ means after everyone goes back to school/work etc. which will be the 7th of Jan.

So you are telling me that there are no Al-Anon meetings during the Christmas hols? Somehow I doubt that. But that’s OK. It’s totally up to you whether you go or you don’t.

All the best to you.

 

[minkymurph]

So you are telling me that there are no Al-Anon meetings during the Christmas hols? Somehow I doubt that. But that’s OK. It’s totally up to you whether you go or you don’t.

All the best to you.

In which case there are three possibilities.

1. I am misinformed.
2. I’m lying.
3. I’m telling the truth.

Thank you for your good wishes.

 

[hurting]

He makes a huge issue out of things there is no need to make such an issue of, and he is only annoying himself. He gets really annoyed about lights being left on. Kids leave lights on and yes, they need to be told to turn them off. But he really goes over the top about it at times. He gets really annoyed and goes on and on about the way people drive and the way they park. He goes on and gets really annoyed about things that happened ages ago.

Is this worth divorcing him over?

Sorry for the colloquialism. . An alpha male is like a real traditionalist male - men don’t discuss feelings women do. Men are the breadwinner and women should do most of the housework and take responsibility for bills and child rearing because they are better at it.

I understand the alpha male concept in general - just had not seen you proffer evidence of your husband’s views. BTW, what you describe is not necessarily alpha male per se from the view of evolutionary psychology, but I get the point.

Ostrich impersonation - rather then deal with problems you ignore them in the hope they go away.

I understand the analogy but still wonder if there may be a difference in perceptions.

 

[minkymurph]

I understand the analogy but still wonder if there may be a difference in perceptions.

There is a difference in perceptions, in that things that annoy me would not annoy him and vice-versa which causes friction.

What I mean is ignoring things in the hope they go away when they are not going to go away. or not doing things simply because he can’t be bothered. For instance, I am entitled to a grant for books for my course but in order to get it, he must provide the education board of proof of what he earns. He needs to phone the income tax people for verification of what he earns. I cannot do it for him, he must do that. He hasn’t done it and as a consequence I lost a £300 bursary last year. Neither can I claim that money this year as he still has not submitted the necessary paperwork.

What I don’t understand is why is he thinks he pays for everything. Who does he think pays for things when he knows he doesn’t give me any money? He often says how he pays for everything ‘indirectly’ yet doesn’t give me any housekeeping. He may give me the odd £20 from time to time but that’s it. He seems to have convinced himself this is true.

 

[hurting]

There is a difference in perceptions, in that things that annoy me would not annoy him and vice-versa which causes friction.

What I mean is ignoring things in the hope they go away when they are not going to go away. or not doing things simply because he can’t be bothered. For instance, I am entitled to a grant for books for my course but in order to get it, he must provide the education board of proof of what he earns. He needs to phone the income tax people for verification of what he earns. I cannot do it for him, he must do that. He hasn’t done it and as a consequence I lost a £300 bursary last year. Neither can I claim that money this year as he still has not submitted the necessary paperwork.

What I don’t understand is why is he thinks he pays for everything. Who does he think pays for things when he knows he doesn’t give me any money? He often says how he pays for everything ‘indirectly’ yet doesn’t give me any housekeeping. He may give me the odd £20 from time to time but that’s it. He seems to have convinced himself this is true.

So regarding my question - is this worth divorcing him over?