I know this is BAD! using Contraception

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koda:
No, but he clearly disagreed with the Phariasees who only touted the letter of the law - we’re human beings, not machines that work a certain way if you follow all the directions. The law is nothing w/o compassion and mercy.
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Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4They tie up heavy loads and put them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
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So, Christ said to do everything the Pharisees said to do, but do not be hypocrites.
 
Jesus also told sinners to go and sin no more–it’s not like he gave them a free pass to go on sinning…
 
…and koda, it’s not like the OP is ignorantly walking along a blind path here, either. he admitted it’s bad, it’s wrong, and that he needs confession. and then he also admitted that he uses condoms anyway and doesn’t feel guilty. so, there ain’t much room here for much compassion - it’s more like a slap in the face. like saying, Gee God, I know this is a sin and that You don’t want this, but hey, I’m gonna do it anyway because it’s what I want! see the problem here? :eek:
 
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uofl19:
I want to thank everyone for there answers and support. I hope everyone had a very MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

Why I brought this up was more because of every Catholic I know and obviously I know a lot. Are using condoms or some type of Birth Control. Some of the reasoning I am hearing is, well I Can’t afford any children, everyone uses it, The Church is way out of Date on this issue, etc.etc… I can honestly say this. If all my Catholic friends and family were using NFP and I was doing what I’m doing, I would say HEY!! I’m doing something wrong here. Of course a couple of my non-denom friends will say “Where is that in the Bible BLAH BLAH BLAH!!” Trust me they are not the one’s influnecing my decision.

I do think it needs to be known and people should not be shocked that most Catholics nowadays are using birth control and ignoring the rules of the Church on this issue.

Thank you again for your answers!! HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
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A Merry Christmas to you as well. I hope you have found some sort of community and support here in the forums of Catholics who are not using birth control, even if “all” the Catholics you know personally are.

It’s not shocking to me that Catholics use birth control; for as long as humans have been around we have struggled with trusting God. If you ever have a chance to read the theology of the body, please do. One of the first things emphasized is that in the garden of Eden, the first sin was not Adam and Eve eating the apple and disobeying God in so doing. It was that they failed to trust God and His goodness and love for them; they failed to guard their hearts from the serpent’s lies.

It does sadden me when I see some of our Catholic friends using artificial contraception…mostly because they are really missing out on the freedom and intimacy experienced by couples who use nfp. And I want so badly for them to have that too.

My husband and I were really blessed to take our nfp course with several other engaged couples our last semester of college. Many of us were set to graduate and marry shortly thereafter without a dime to our names. It was very inspiring to me to see all these other couples learning nfp even though they would have had many of the same, legitimate reasons you mentioned for using nfp.

I know it can be scary to trust that much. NFP really does work - if used correctly it has a 99% success rate. And the main point is that it allows room for prayer and discernment of God’s plan for your family in ways that contraceptives could not.

I will pray for you! You mentioned that some of your protestant friends refute nfp. Here is an excellent, short book written by a protestant couple on the biblical and Christian basis of nfp:
Open Embrace, by Sam and Bethany Torode.
 
I was thinking about this thread on my way home from work today. I was thinking about how sad is it that so many Catholics are ill-informed about their faith and how many seem to simply not care. I was also thinking about how strong an influence peer pressure is even for adults. And then I was thinking about how wonderful it would be if the OP would be the first among his friends to stand up for what is right and act as a witness to them about surrendering our will to God’s will. I hope the OP will pray and ponder this issue deeply with his wife. “Life Giving Love” by Kimberly Hahn is a wonderful book about the joy of being open to God’s plan for us.
 
UofL–I’ve been down the road you’re on. Yes, all my Catholic friends were using ABC, so I never thought anything of it. That excuse only gets you so far. Do you think God’s going to say, well, UofL, you sinned, but since everyone else was doing it to, I’ll let this one go? Of course not, you know you’re sinning or you wouldn’t be here, STOP DOING IT!! It’s really that simple. Buck up, learn NFP if you really think you would be unfit parents to more children. I’m sorry if I sound harsh, but I deluded myself for a couple of years that ABC was OK; I’ve been to confession, cried to my poor priest, and I’ve been forgiven, but I still, to this day, regret that decision. I don’t want to see others do what I did.

I hope that one day you’ll see the light and stop doing this. Is your immortal soul really worth the risk you’re taking?
 
Just wanted to let you know that we went through the Couple to Couple League and did the Home Study Course because the NFP class isn’t available where we are. They are wonderful in helping out and with questions. Right now is the time for you to sign up. We were in a similar situation and it doesn’t take long to “catch on” to her fertility pattern and THEN you can relax and discuss the future! It is worth it.
 
Guys, I understand. However, I have to look out for my family and be a bread winner. I can not be irresponsible and have 4 or 5 kids and put my family in dire straits financially. This is a different world we live in. Some of the responses I’m getting remind me of what I might here at some Fundamentalist Pentecostal Church. My mother saw this and all the responses and was mortified. Says I should become Lutheran or Methodist. She was ticked. She feels like she should leave the Church because that is a man-made not biblical rule.

1 example, one of her co-workers, 3 kids all grew up in 12 yrs of Catholic school. Very active in her Church, all 3 kids go to Dayton University. The youngest daughter this year was given Birth Control by the decision of the parents so if she is going to do it she can’t get pregnant. I know Dayton is a good Catholic School but there are some monsterous parties that go on and she just wanted to keep her daughter safe if she is going to do it. Also many Catholics I work with have their wives use B. Control or use condoms to prevent having anymore kids because they can’t afford it. Maybe the Churches need to really address this in homilies because honestly I never hear this being served up at homilies.

I know I have made some people very upset but this is an issue that really questions my faith.
 
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uofl19:
Guys, I understand. However, I have to look out for my family and be a bread winner. I can not be irresponsible and have 4 or 5 kids and put my family in dire straits financially. This is a different world we live in. Some of the responses I’m getting remind me of what I might here at some Fundamentalist Pentecostal Church. My mother saw this and all the responses and was mortified. Says I should become Lutheran or Methodist. She was ticked. She feels like she should leave the Church because that is a man-made not biblical rule.

1 example, one of her co-workers, 3 kids all grew up in 12 yrs of Catholic school. Very active in her Church, all 3 kids go to Dayton University. The youngest daughter this year was given Birth Control by the decision of the parents so if she is going to do it she can’t get pregnant. I know Dayton is a good Catholic School but there are some monsterous parties that go on and she just wanted to keep her daughter safe if she is going to do it. Also many Catholics I work with have their wives use B. Control or use condoms to prevent having anymore kids because they can’t afford it. Maybe the Churches need to really address this in homilies because honestly I never hear this being served up at homilies.

I know I have made some people very upset but this is an issue that really questions my faith.
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I am sure many good responses will come your way in reference to the above post, but I was wondering about the notion that one’s daughter would be “safe” as long as she is on ABC. How can that even remotely be reconciled with the teachings of Christ?
 
“Safe” from pregnancy, -not std’s, or emotional damage. Out of wedlock pregnancy is not the worst thing to happen to a person.

What message does that send to their dd??? “We don’t care what happens to you, as long as you don’t get pregnant”???
 
UofL–you’ve made your mind up, so why did you post about this? You’re going to use ABC b/c you don’t want to consider alternatives–why post about this on a Catholic discussion site? Are you surprised you’re getting such reactions? If you can’t afford 4 or 5 kids, the Church doesn’t say you have to have them. There’s a wealth of info out there on NFP, and some very knowledgable folks right here to help you out. Good luck to you.
 
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uofl19:
Maybe the Churches need to really address this in homilies because honestly I never hear this being served up at homilies.
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On this point, we agree. However, I continue to be baffled as to why children are considered a money drain. I hear this all the time, and I really do not understand. I don’t think we spend much more now that we have three kids than we did with one. Other than food and having to buy a bigger car when our third was born to accomodate the car seats, I can’t think of what else you *need *to spend money on. I know there are a lot of “wants” that come with kids - the baby gadgets, the extracurricular activities, new clothes every season, etc. - but I really don’t know why 4 or 5 kids would put a middle class family in dire straits.

And just so I am clear OP, I am not saying to run out and have 5 kids. If you don’t want any more right now, I completely respect that. However, I think you should be looking at a natural method of child spacing that fits within God’s design for our bodies. I also do not think that another child is something to be terrified of and an unexpected pregnancy is not the end of the world.
 
Not to turn this into a sex-ed class but it is true and I hope women ar not too embarrassed to answer this. You are only likely to get pregnant on what maybe a ocuple of days in the month?? I’m assuming that is what NFP is all about. My wife and I got the book in our pre-cana classes but honestly we have been lazy put the book up and went the easy route. I guess a lot of Catholics and my Mother included are not informed. They too are going the easy route like we are.

I apologize for the rant I had. I talked to my mother earlier about it and she got me all fired up. She is honestly pretty upset and thinks the Church is wrong and it doesn’t really matter.

A little background about me. My wife is an Evangelical Christian and she has a hard time buying into NFP because her oldest niece who is also Evangelical has had 4 babies by 27 and is in big time Financial Dire Straits. They keep on having babies with a so-called irresponsible lazy husband who doesn’t understand you have to work to make money. So we see that and think WOW!! how awful!!

I hope everyone forgives me and understands that I do want to do the right thing and no I don’t want to become Lutheran, Methodist, Evangelical etc.etc… Thanks for everyone;s advice.
 
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uofl19:
Not to turn this into a sex-ed class but it is true and I hope women ar not too embarrassed to answer this. You are only likely to get pregnant on what maybe a ocuple of days in the month?? I’m assuming that is what NFP is all about. My wife and I got the book in our pre-cana classes but honestly we have been lazy put the book up and went the easy route. I guess a lot of Catholics and my Mother included are not informed. They too are going the easy route like we are.

I apologize for the rant I had. I talked to my mother earlier about it and she got me all fired up. She is honestly pretty upset and thinks the Church is wrong and it doesn’t really matter.

A little background about me. My wife is an Evangelical Christian and she has a hard time buying into NFP because her oldest niece who is also Evangelical has had 4 babies by 27 and is in big time Financial Dire Straits. They keep on having babies with a so-called irresponsible lazy husband who doesn’t understand you have to work to make money. So we see that and think WOW!! how awful!!

I hope everyone forgives me and understands that I do want to do the right thing and no I don’t want to become Lutheran, Methodist, Evangelical etc.etc… Thanks for everyone;s advice.
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A few posters mentioned the couple to couple league and I think that is a good place to start. They will help you.
 
Most women are only fertile a few days out of the month. With NFP, there are a couple of different indicators you can use to determine when it is “safe” to resume relations. Couples just starting out might want to be a bit more conservative which means abstinance might be lengthened slightly, but once you get the hang of charting cycles, you can reduce the abstiance time. The Couple to Couple League’s homestudy (www.ccli.org) talks about four different measurements you can use to guage fertile and non-fertile times, but you don’t have to do them all so don’t let that overwhelm you. I’m to the point now where I just take my temperature in the morning. It’s not as simple as popping a pill each day, but it really isn’t hard to learn either. I know it is hard when you see someone else with a lot of closely spaced kids living in an unfavorable situation. My husband has a cousin like that - it is a bad situation all around and they continue to have children. I think those cases reflect more on the people in them than on the use of NFP or even large families in general. But if you haven’t seen any positive examples of large families or NFP, I can see why you would be hesitant to use it. I hope this information helps a little! http://forum.catholic.com/images/smilies/smile.gif
 
Thank you Mary! Very good website. I need to find the book we got from PreCana. Iti is true thought that only about 2 days or so right around the 14th day between periods is the women the most fertile. Is that correct??
 
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KathleenElsie:
I want to thank you for yur open conversation on this issue. I have been prayong about what I can do for others with in the Church and you have given me much to pray about. The local Mom’s clubs take up some of your issues. Yet they are not from the Catholic point of view or values in many things.

What yould you think of a group of people that would provide the services extended family provided when we all lived near one another? An ear to listen, a hand to hold and help with the older children or house and chores? We are out there we just sometimes need to be asked and not just expected to do things. We might be afraid to “get under foot.”🙂
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Yes, such a group to help would be great. I’d support such a group and join.

I’ve had some time to think and have to admit, before discussing it here, hadn’t really thought about the whole thing. Denial is still comfortable 😉 (Apologise to the OP for dumping it all here - my intention was really just to point out that you weren’t alone as that’s what you had asked).

I am a very independent, capable and organised person. I do sometimes find it hard to realise that others may not find parenting, homeschooling and running a household as natural as I do. So leaning on others has never been my style. I am , however, getting better at that.

I also have to admit, that when a friend had a similar experience some years ago, I did not realise the trauma that came with such an experience and assumed that you’d be so relieved to have survived that the trauma of the actual experience would be minimal. At least this experience has made me more compassionate if anyone else experiences such things. It’s easy to be there when the need is obvious. Especially when the person needing help is very good at putting on a brave face, like me. I finally got my shoulder to cry on when a friend, who happens to be a doctor, came over after I emailed her asking for a reference to a counsellor and she gave me that shoulder I needed. And that was all I needed as I decided I didn’t need a counsellor after letting all that was bottled up out. So yes, I need to give others a break.

I’m still working through it and I struggle with the vasectomy having happened but at the time, especially with my husband’s outlook and lack of acceptance of the Catholic faith, it seemed the only way. I don’t hide it - because I’m not into pretending to be something I’m not. But I do sometimes feel like I’m not sure why I bother since I can’t be the kind of Catholic I want to be. Oh well, I guess i was never meant to be a saint.
 
Generally speaking, yes, day 14 or so of a women’s cycle would be fertile. HOWEVER, not all women’s cycles are that neatly arranged!!! Also, ecological breastfeeding (as opposed to cultural breastfeeding, where bottles and pacifiers are used) can delay the return of cycles. When you learn NFP you learn how to “read” your wife’s cycles and determine when she’s fertile. There are at least 3 reliable methods

sympto thermal ccli.org temps, mucus and cervix
billings ovulation boma-usa.org mucus only
and
creighton www.creightonmodel.com mucus and cervix (I think)

They all provide teaching couples, teaching materials and help learning the method of your choice. This is the morally licit way to limit and space births!!! Many Catholics don’t use ABC, you would not be alone!!! I promise. And using NFP does not mean you’ll have a large family, though it might open your heart for more blessings!

Here are some books:
Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing Sheila Kippley
Fertility, Cycles and Nutrition Marilyn Shannon
The Bible and Birth Control Charles Provan
Good News about Sex and Marriage Christopher West
Open Embrace Sam and Bethany Torode

giftfoundation.org/pages/
This site offers several cd sets for cheap! One is Christopher West’s Naked without Shame set, one is about the ovulation method and one is about NFP and contraception

There is not much excuse for not knowing the Church’s stance on birthcontrol!! Now you just need to try to accept it even if you don’t fully understand it…God bless you–I’ll be praying for you
 
hi
I do not think it is a easy decision especially when you have just had a baby. I ended up using contraception because my ex-husband who was united reform saw nothing wrong in either contraception or abortion.
The church teaches that both Contraception and Abortion are sinful, and I do agree with that view.
The world is a harsh place, and personally you should do what you must to ensure that your children are happy and growing up to be good people.
If you have to use contraception, then it is a lesser evil than abortion, but you still should seek forgiveness from the lord.
 
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uofl19:
My wife and I got the book in our pre-cana classes but honestly we have been lazy put the book up and went the easy route. I guess a lot of Catholics and my Mother included are not informed. They too are going the easy route like we are.
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Well, that’s not surprising. It is said that the road to hell is wide and easy (and taken by many!), but the road to Heaven is hard and narrow.

You mention not wanting to go into debt for any reason. Do you have your house paid off in full? What about your car(s)?
 
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