S
she_he
Guest
- Status
T
TheRaiders
Guest
I’d like to say to UofL that if you didn’t read this whole discussion then you should. I did, and I’m not even married yet. Some people poured their hearts out for you, and your short answers seem a bit superficial. You showed your mother these things, and she is outraged? Did she read what I read? These are people that practice what they preach. They use Natural Family Planning. Not one of them said it doesn’t work, or they didn’t feel better with God when they were doing it.
A few even risked death in order to not do what you are doing just so you don’t have to go in debt. I understand your concerns, but my mom and dad both came from large single-income Catholic families. They didn’t have the benefit of NFP. You do. The fact is, it makes sense and it works.
To all the mothers out there. God Bless you, and I don’t envy the choices you had to make, and you also had to deal with the choices of your husbands. Marriage is beautiful, but also a vocation and no vocations are easy.
Patrick
A few even risked death in order to not do what you are doing just so you don’t have to go in debt. I understand your concerns, but my mom and dad both came from large single-income Catholic families. They didn’t have the benefit of NFP. You do. The fact is, it makes sense and it works.
To all the mothers out there. God Bless you, and I don’t envy the choices you had to make, and you also had to deal with the choices of your husbands. Marriage is beautiful, but also a vocation and no vocations are easy.
Patrick
J
jess7396
Guest
Patrick- THANK YOU! I read John (the poster before you)'s post and started to wonder why I come to a Catholic board at all. I wasn’t sure it was worth pouring my heart out here, I am glad our answers were of use to you
.
.
H
H_Opey
Guest
You are right THE RAIDERS. For us it was very hard. When we did “quit” contracepting we were still suspicous of NFP until we dove into it for ourselves. We have learned so much, about God, and our Church and ourselves that we would do it over in a heart beat EXCEPT we would do it to begin with, not 9 years into the marriage. Did you know that our communication has increased? Did you know that years before we started NFP I was unsure our marriage would work? It is only recently that I have read that NFP doesn’t make marriages work, but it does bring a lot to light, especially if a marriage is a true marriage. Thank you for reading our responses. God Bless you.
A
a_cermak
Guest
The OP seems to be correct in worrying about the costs of an additional child at this time. There are real costs that must be considered when deciding whether or not to have additional children. Additional life insurance so that if the breadwinner is killed, the family is not reduced to penury; college savings as there is a real difference in the average lifetime earnings of those who have a 4 year degree and those who don’t; plus the ordinary expense of retirement savings so that one doesn’t become a burden to one’s children–these savings can also be beneficial in case the primary breadwinner is laid off and out of work for a period of time. The reason why he might want to wait 2 years is that he may receive a promotion or other such financial rewards that can help afford additional children. I would think that when praying whether another child is right for a couple they would consider all the additional expenses and then preferably use NFP (although I have a hard time condemning barrier methods as they don’t mess with the physical health of the woman like the artificial hormones found in the pills, patches and rings do).
As an aside, I’ve been amused to see various pagan groups supporting FAM (fertility awareness method). It’s essentially NFP lite–it avoids any mention of the Church or sacramental talk and is just the methodology with condoms or OS available as options to those who’d rather not abstain when fertile.
As an aside, I’ve been amused to see various pagan groups supporting FAM (fertility awareness method). It’s essentially NFP lite–it avoids any mention of the Church or sacramental talk and is just the methodology with condoms or OS available as options to those who’d rather not abstain when fertile.
S
Semper_Fi_1
Guest
uofl19,
NFP is a good idea to try. Although there should be some caution when using it, and it should still be left ultimately up to God to decide whether or not you should have another child. There are some reasons you should avoid NFP, that is if it’s just to prevent another child and not for a good reason such as a financial one.
You should check out the Couple to Couple League.
God bless,
NFP is a good idea to try. Although there should be some caution when using it, and it should still be left ultimately up to God to decide whether or not you should have another child. There are some reasons you should avoid NFP, that is if it’s just to prevent another child and not for a good reason such as a financial one.
You should check out the Couple to Couple League.
God bless,
C
cklockner
Guest
Money must be very important to you. My husband makes 30K and we both have student loans to pay off. I’m pregant with my third and we couldn’t be happier. So I really dont buy financial difficulty as an excuse for using contraception.
BTW, couples who use NFP have a 3% divorce rate. Just another added benefit.
T
TheRaiders
Guest
The baby boomers are all a product of people making big families on a modest income. We have become more selfish, and now there will not be enough children in our country to take care of the baby boomers.
Europe is facing a crisis as well, as their population ages. We should adopt if we have to, but have big families. They make life interesting as well!
Patrick
Europe is facing a crisis as well, as their population ages. We should adopt if we have to, but have big families. They make life interesting as well!
Patrick
S
she_he
Guest
pira114:
Hello:
First off let me say I currently am a Lutheran,in process of converting to Catholic,but my conversion has nothing to dowith the beliefs of either church they are much to close to even compare.
even the profession of faith is Identical word for word including the Word Catholic.
I understand how you are feeling,what I dont understand is why you put the Blame on your Husband and the Lutheran religion.
and all this "regret"of marrying a person of different faith then trying to instill that on the minds of Youths,If my child was in any of those classes I would be heading straight to the Bishop.
your husband said what he said out of LOVE not selfeshness.
and for the records most tubals can be reversed have you looked into that? if it bothers you so much which I do know it does.
anyways if your child had a sickness that would require them to have an operation that would render them sterile or they could die
would you let your child die?
Is your faith so strong you would “sacrifice” your own child to prove it?
Mine isnt, My kids and my future wife and her kids are more important to me than anything
this question was actually brougfht up at one of our RCIA classes
noone said they would or could including the priest.
Now lets get into a more biblical approach to this.
get your bible and go to Ephesians 5 21 to 32
this may help you some I am not sure
Peace be with you
John
T
TheRaiders
Guest
John,
You don’t understand because you, like me, are a man. But I have heard many stories similar to this one where a man in love with a Catholic woman marries her and agrees to raise the kids Catholic. Then a few years go by and he starts complaining about it and forcing her to compromise more and more of her faith.
It is a horrific sittuation, because like you pointed out in Ephesians 5 22-32, they are to be submissive to their husbands. But the man, in doing what he is doing, is not upholding his end of the bargain by loving his wife as his own, and breaking a promise.
There is likely a lot of that going on here on top of just the tubes. His threat to raise them Lutheran is not fair because he agreed to raise them Catholic, and that was in life AND in death.
That said, you were not wrong to remind everyone of that passage. It is how everything is supposed to be.
Patrick
You don’t understand because you, like me, are a man. But I have heard many stories similar to this one where a man in love with a Catholic woman marries her and agrees to raise the kids Catholic. Then a few years go by and he starts complaining about it and forcing her to compromise more and more of her faith.
It is a horrific sittuation, because like you pointed out in Ephesians 5 22-32, they are to be submissive to their husbands. But the man, in doing what he is doing, is not upholding his end of the bargain by loving his wife as his own, and breaking a promise.
There is likely a lot of that going on here on top of just the tubes. His threat to raise them Lutheran is not fair because he agreed to raise them Catholic, and that was in life AND in death.
That said, you were not wrong to remind everyone of that passage. It is how everything is supposed to be.
Patrick
T
TheRaiders
Guest
Also, thank you for reminding me of that passage. He is supposed to treat her as if she is his body. Hmmm. He forced her into having that operation that went against nature and religion.
It may have been for righteous reasons, and a love of his wife.
It also is a bit selfish to come between her and God, just because he feels there is a chance he might loose her, but he doesn’t want to stop having sex, or use NFP. Even if it was for seemingly righteous reasons, it wasn’t the only option by far. Think about it.
Would he do the same thing to his own body? After all, if he loves his wife as the Bible tells him he should, she is basically his body. Why didn’t he do it to himself to save her? He could have had surgery on his prescious manhood. He still can for that matter!
John, it is good you recognize Catholicism and are going through RCIA. But I hope you reconsider whether you would promote men making the same decision as this woman’s husband.
Patrick
It may have been for righteous reasons, and a love of his wife.
It also is a bit selfish to come between her and God, just because he feels there is a chance he might loose her, but he doesn’t want to stop having sex, or use NFP. Even if it was for seemingly righteous reasons, it wasn’t the only option by far. Think about it.
Would he do the same thing to his own body? After all, if he loves his wife as the Bible tells him he should, she is basically his body. Why didn’t he do it to himself to save her? He could have had surgery on his prescious manhood. He still can for that matter!
John, it is good you recognize Catholicism and are going through RCIA. But I hope you reconsider whether you would promote men making the same decision as this woman’s husband.
Patrick
T
TheRaiders
Guest
What Biblical example do we have? Joseph. Let him be our model. We know he obstained from sex with his beautiful wife before Jesus and the Church believes he did afterwards as well.
Patrick
Patrick
Y
YinYangMom
Guest
So what’s wrong with NFP?
No one is saying you have to have more children now, or ever, for that matter, it’s not up to us.
It’s between you, your wife and God.
Why are you unwilling to work for your happiness?
If you are so certain you can’t have more children then it should be easy for you to remind yourself of that when the mood strikes at a fertile time.
Choices, it’s always about choices.
You can choose to have sex when the mood strikes
or you can choose not to have sex when the mood strikes.
It’s that simple.
Choosing to use artificial birth control, knowing it is against church teaching, is choosing to reject God, commit mortal sin and drag your wife’s soul down with you. How loving is that?
F
fud24682000
Guest
Momto5, I’m with you.
It’s unfair for God to give us natural urges and then have to quash them. As the father of 7, the last of whom was developmentally disabled I can say we should have drawn the line much sooner.
Having a large family made sense 100 years ago when our society was rural, kids were needed on the farm, and/or they died off due to diseases and had to be “replaced”. I do not see contraception as an evil; certainly abortion is.
God allowed divorce in Moses’ time, and I feel the same is true of birth control. Evidently many priests feel the same way or else they wouldn’t look the other way so often on this issue.
Ray Mac.
It’s unfair for God to give us natural urges and then have to quash them. As the father of 7, the last of whom was developmentally disabled I can say we should have drawn the line much sooner.
Having a large family made sense 100 years ago when our society was rural, kids were needed on the farm, and/or they died off due to diseases and had to be “replaced”. I do not see contraception as an evil; certainly abortion is.
God allowed divorce in Moses’ time, and I feel the same is true of birth control. Evidently many priests feel the same way or else they wouldn’t look the other way so often on this issue.
Ray Mac.
J
jess7396
Guest
S
sanctareparata
Guest
Wow, Ray Mac.
All I can say is take a piece of paper, write down the names of each of your seven children, and cross of the names of those whom you wish had never been born.
For an added punch, maybe stick it up on the fridge so the kids know who you picked, too.
All I can say is take a piece of paper, write down the names of each of your seven children, and cross of the names of those whom you wish had never been born.
For an added punch, maybe stick it up on the fridge so the kids know who you picked, too.
F
fud24682000
Guest
Just the facts as I see them. I will admit that I should never have married, but did not find that out until it was too late.
I can say we went by the book for a long time, did not use contraception for many years, though other couples we knew did… In those years NFP was known as “rhythm”, or “Vatican Roulette”, and did not work for a lot of people, including us. A popular riddle at the time was "What do you call people who use rhythm?’ Answer: “Parents”.
After having the first 3 children in 3 years we cut relations to once a year, and that didn’t work too well either, though spacing did turn out to be a little farther apart…
By the way, I see little difference between birth control and NFP. In both cases the intent is to avoid conception.
Yes I know the reasoning, “what is licit all the time is licit part of the time”, etc., but that’s not very natural.
Ray Mac
I can say we went by the book for a long time, did not use contraception for many years, though other couples we knew did… In those years NFP was known as “rhythm”, or “Vatican Roulette”, and did not work for a lot of people, including us. A popular riddle at the time was "What do you call people who use rhythm?’ Answer: “Parents”.
After having the first 3 children in 3 years we cut relations to once a year, and that didn’t work too well either, though spacing did turn out to be a little farther apart…
By the way, I see little difference between birth control and NFP. In both cases the intent is to avoid conception.
Yes I know the reasoning, “what is licit all the time is licit part of the time”, etc., but that’s not very natural.
Ray Mac
R
RoseMarie
Guest
Rhythm method and NFP are not the same thing. Rhythm counts on the cycle being the same length every time, and everybody’s cycle being the same. NFP takes into account body temperature, texture of cervical mucus, etc. It’s extremely reliable when practised diligently.
A
aurora77
Guest
I hope you meant this as a joke–you can’t actually think that it’s alright to do anything we want, whenever we want. We’re not animals, we can practice self-restraint.
T
The_Lamb
Guest
Actually, no it isn’t. According to Reproductive Health Outlook, there’s a 2%-30% failure rate during the first year of use. Effectiveness varies based on a woman’s ability to identify the fertile period of each menstrual cycle. If he wants to employ that method for religous reasons, that’s fine, but it shouldn’t be done under the illusion that it’s more effective.There are hundreds of ways to save money that aren’t chintzy or cheap,and NFP is more effective than any other “protection” out there, including the pill.
Compare the failure rate for periodic abstinence to the failure rate of some other birth control methods:
ecofuture.org/pk/pkbc01.html
reutershealth.com/wellconnected/doc91.html.
- Status