I need help with the Pope's audience hall looking like a snake

[27lw]

Here’s a very brief video of the hall from a Catholic source.
Notice the way it doesn’t show the head of Our Lord in the video of the sculpture. At 1:10

 

[DeniseNY]

It just turned out looking like a snake. Okay

Then it would not only be the architects but the Vatican itself who approved the designs for it to look like a snake.

 

[27lw]

27lw:

It just turned out looking like a snake. Okay

Then it would not only be the architects but the Vatican itself who approved the designs for it to look like a snake.

Yes. What to make of it?

 

[DeniseNY]

Yes. What to make of it?

I’m not someone who thinks that it was designed to look like a snake. As you said that it couldn’t be a coincidence or mistake, what do you make of it?

And, are you Catholic?

 

[TMC]

This topic has been discussed here before, ad nauseam. It seems like it pops up when certain folks are annoyed with the Pope. It has no more significance, weight or meaning this time around (i.e. none).

 

[OddBird]

I’ve sat through an entire pontifical audience in that room, and I was very much not struck at all by its resemblance with a snake. The thought didn’t even cross my mind.

I think one can see pretty much any shape in anything, provided one is imaginative enough and looks hard enough.

 

[aroosi]

I’ve sat through an entire pontifical audience in that room, and I was very much not struck at all by its resemblance with a snake. The thought didn’t even cross my mind.

Same here. By the way, I kind of liked the Resurrection sculpture; it reminded me of a huge coral reef (even if this was not the idea of the artist).

 

[neophyte]

Here’s a very brief video of the hall from a Catholic source.
Notice the way it doesn’t show the head of Our Lord in the video of the sculpture. At 1:10

Your point? A grand conspiracy to prevent the world from recognizing the spiritual dangers posed by ugly modern architecture?

Silliness.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

You’d have a problem with the saraphim.

Saraph means snake.

 

[1ke]

Hi everyone. A while ago I saw somewhere that the Pope’s Audience hall looks like a snake on the inside, outside and in Jesus’s hair in the statue.

We already went over this when you posted the exact same thing in August.

And I hate saying this but it’s literally affected me so much.

Then you need some counseling. Seriously, if you have anxiety, OCD, compulsive thoughts, or are fixated on this-- get some professional help. Get some spiritual direction from your pastor.

It’s been two months and you are STILL thinking about this? Even though many people already told you this is total nonsense?

Get some help.

And I hate that this is happening because I literally feel like a complete idiot believing this.

I have no idea why you would believe this. It definitely is ridiculous.

And the worst part is that I’m having doubts about the faith

Then get some spiritual counseling and STAY OFF SITES that are feeding and fueling this ridiculous idea.

Or maybe, and most likely, It’s just my ocd worrying for no reason.

If you’ve been diagnosed with OCD, you need to talk to your therapist. This is a manifestation of that and it is NOT rational.

If you haven’t been diagnosed, it sounds like now is a good time to talk with a therapist, you’ve been obsessing on this for months.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Even if the interior and exterior of the Pope’s new audience hall do somewhat resemble a snake or serpent, not all associations with serpents are bad. The rods of Moses and Aaron miraculously became serpents as signs that God was with them. (Exodus 4:3; 7:9-12) Jesus Christ told his disciples to “be wise as serpents.” (Matthew 10:16) And, Jesus compared himself to a serpent, saying, "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.” (John 3:14-15) Accordingly, some Christians have even referred to Jesus Christ as the Serpent of Life.

Serpents are not intrinsically evil creatures. They just get a bum rap because of that business in the very beginning of the book of Genesis, and because people see a snake and instantly think it is poisonous and is going to bite them.

Actually they’re pretty benign animals. They act as a deterrent to vermin — basically the cats of the reptile kingdom — and, so I’ve heard, they are good to eat. Never had the pleasure myself.

 

[MNathaniel]

27lw:

It just turned out looking like a snake

No, it doesn’t “look like” a snake; some people see snake features and get wrapped around the axle over an illusion.

I mean, to be fair.

The architect was a human too. He should have been competent to anticipate the basic ‘dangerous animal’ pattern trigger his design could set off in the brains of other humans. And if he cared about preserving the psychological integrity of Catholics to not feel subconsciously disturbed by the structures associated with them, he should have been responsible enough to avoid design features that could give this impression.

Honestly, OP: my view is that architects these days are, in many cases, functionally insane. This isn’t restricted to Church architecture: it’s across the board. Here’s a secular article (language warning) critiquing post-war architecture trends and the willful discomfort-inducement that many architects seem to consider cleverer than actually accommodating the emotional needs of the humans occupying these spaces. (You can mostly ignore the suggestion that the deterioration is significantly rooted in economic reasons, in my view; the stronger argument is the ideological and cultural shift the author discusses.)

Why You Hate Contemporary Architecture ❧ Current Affairs

This goes 10,000% for that idiotic sculpture. God save us from ourselves. NO. I don’t care what convoluted abstract concept the artist was working from, your average viewer of the art will never know or remember what it was, they will only remember how intimidating and evil the final outcome looked and the psychological impression it left on their minds. It is idiotic that this was ever allowed. Better to write off the lost cost and leave a bare white wall.

Again, to the OP: if anything, I’d honestly say the human-level idiocy here is more reassuring evidence in favour of the Church, not against her. If there was an actual conspiracy from within the Church herself, she wouldn’t be stupid enough to carve snake symbols into the walls and Commission demon-statues. This is human level idiocy, and while I wouldn’t rule out demonic trolling via subtly misguided architects, the fact that demons are trolling the Church is evidence they don’t like the Church, not evidence that they do. It’s ugly and a disgrace – but not the Church herself showing her true colours. More like mud being thrown on her by others, and her representatives being too confused right now about how to clean her off.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

Different spelling.

 

[whatistrue]

The architect was a human too. He should have been competent to anticipate the basic ‘dangerous animal’ pattern trigger his design could set off in the brains of other humans.

Architects, like artists, tend to have tunnel vision when it comes to their work. It is often the case that some motif that the originator thinks of only in the way they intend turns into a “what were they thinking” moment when the work is completed and seen by the public. Especially in a case like this, where the features under discussion only resemble a snake from certain angles (and in certain light?) on the completed structure, and may not have been visible to anyone during the plan review process.

 

[27lw]

If nothing else, you’d think someone in the Vatican would have said, “you know, it kinda does resemble a snake head in a panorama photo. Could we somehow make it look less snake like?”

Or acknowledge that some people think it looks like a snake? I think it would have been far more effective in the “Joan’s Rome” video if she had shown that, and said “it’s funny how photos from a certain angle do look a bit snake-like. Come and see for yourself!”

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[Polak]

I would recommend against listening to Dr. Taylor Marshall.

Sadly Trump has probably given him more of an audience (by accident) when he retweeted some tweet Marshall was mentioned in. I think he used to get about 50 or 60k views per video on Youtube. It’s now closer to 150k or even sometimes even close to 200k. We really don’t need more people watching his constant trashing of our Pope.

 

[MNathaniel]

Architects, like artists, tend to have tunnel vision when it comes to their work. It is often the case that some motif that the originator thinks of only in the way they intend turns into a “what were they thinking” moment when the work is completed and seen by the public. Especially in a case like this, where the features under discussion only resemble a snake from certain angles (and in certain light?) on the completed structure, and may not have been visible to anyone during the plan review process.

I do agree with this. While I think there should (in this era of architectural construction) be 3D modeling and third-party feedback throughout the process, and I think such process should be geared towards making sure accidental impressions like this don’t make it through to the final outcome, it does seem plausible to me that the artists had tunnel vision on whatever they themselves intended, and couldn’t get outside their own heads enough to consider how it might look to others (and as you say, in certain lights, from certain angles).

Again, that’s why for me I chalk this one up to human error. Limitations, blinders, a domino-chain of inadequately-considered choices and accidental events, in an overall cultural context where architects expect and pressure each other to constantly innovate and not repeat tried-and-true patterns. Perhaps demons prodding the errors in a certain direction, perhaps human error more than enough for ourselves in this case.

But a moment for facepalming – not faith-leaving.

 

[whatistrue]

While I think there should (in this era of architectural construction) be 3D modeling and third-party feedback throughout the process

I am not actually sure when the thing was built and whether such tools were available even in limited cases, but today even a small architectural outfit has ready access to the necessary tools (even I can get a good 3D CAD/modeling package as a middle-class private individual without breaking the bank, and I wouldn’t even have to buy new hardware to run it), and I agree that it could help ferret out such unintended coincidences.

But a moment for facepalming – not faith-leaving.

100% concur.

 

[27lw]

I think it’s interesting that Fr. James Martin can slightly distort the Catholic message so as not to scare away potential LGBTQ converts.

But faced with this bizarre building and sculpture used often in Vatican City, and how it looks to Protestants and frankly, anyone else, Catholics are like “Meh. so one of our buildings looks like a snake / Star trek set”.
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[DeniseNY]

But faced with this bizarre building and sculpture used often in Vatican City, and how it looks to Protestants and frankly, anyone else, Catholics are like “Meh. so one of our buildings looks like a snake / Star trek set”.

Maybe instead of remaining uninformed, these folks can learn something instead

Is That a Demon Behind the Pope? | Catholic Answers Q&A

II don’t see why Catholics should be so all fired concerned with what Protestants think.