I think I am bi

[PaxCaritas]

Same sex attraction was ordained by God? If it is objectively disordered, not ordered to the good, then such an inclination is not willed by God, is it?

Is any disordered inclination willed by God?

I didn’t say that a homosexual orientation was ordained by God or willed by God - the same could be said about a man with a disordered appetite for heterosexual sex. Anyway, I think we agree on the main point - homosexuality is disordered (if we are using disordered as a philosophical and not a psychological term). My point was simply that calling people mistakes is not the way to bring them into or keep them in the Church. I have been to many Catholic websites where things are written by supposedly devout Catholics that are just plain hateful. Even if someone is living out a homosexual lifestyle, we aren’t called to judge that person - just to love them and do our best to point them in the right direction by the example of our own lives. A bishop friend of mine once said to me:

“People aren’t going to be convinced by the faith, people are going to be convinced by your faith.”

 

[PaxCaritas]

the idea one needs to accept they are homosexual and that is “natural”.

One does need to accept that they are a homosexual, your not going to grow if you can’t accept the truth. Whether or not it is natural is depends on how you are using the word “natural.”

Found in nature - yes.
Ordered that way in nature - no.

 

[fix]

I didn’t say that a homosexual orientation was ordained by God or willed by God - the same could be said about a man with a disordered appetite for heterosexual sex. Anyway, I think we agree on the main point - homosexuality is disordered (if we are using disordered as a philosophical and not a psychological term). My point was simply that calling people mistakes is not the way to bring them into or keep them in the Church. I have been to many Catholic websites where things are written by supposedly devout Catholics that are just plain hateful. Even if someone is living out a homosexual lifestyle, we aren’t called to judge that person - just to love them and do our best to point them in the right direction by the example of our own lives. A bishop friend of mine once said to me:

“People aren’t going to be convinced by the faith, people are going to be convinced by your faith.”

I hope no one calls anyone a mistake. I constantly read this word hate used. I think given our current situation the problem most often is not strident language, but an overly sensitive position that is quick to see any expsosure to truth as mean spirited.

 

[fix]

One does need to accept that they are a homosexual, your not going to grow if you can’t accept the truth. Whether or not it is natural is depends on how you are using the word “natural.”

Found in nature - yes.
Ordered that way in nature - no.

That I agree with.

 

[PaxCaritas]

That I agree with.

Praise the Lord!

 

[1ke]

I wish people in the Church would be more careful about how they word things. Speak the truth always, but speak it with love. It was the idea that I was some flaw in God’s plan, some kind of mistake, that briefly drove me away from the Church.

Point taken. I in no way tried to imply that you or any other person is a “flaw in God’s plan”. We all have flaws as a result of the loss of sanctifying grace in our souls by our first parents. All of humanity is wounded.

Our disordered desires do not define us.

The most important point is that we all recognize that they are disordered desires. We cannot bend reality to make what is disordered acceptable simply to make people comfortable-- which exactly what society is currently trying to do. We cannot encourage what is sinful-- be that homosexual sex, contraception, abortion, fornication, adultery, divorce, etc.

Homosexual desires are not the only sexual disorder in the world. They are the ones people are currently trying to normalize.

Homosexuals are not dangerous people, we shouldn’t be so afraid of them. It seems that some people believe that if you don’t hate who you are, you are trying to infiltrate the Church with homosexual propaganda. Truth in charity is the only thing that will win people over.

This is not true. No one should hate themselves. Nor has anyone here indicated fear of persons with SSA.

 

[jabelltulsa]

Firstly, thank you for sharing this. It is very courageous of you to reach out, as you have.

I would like to offer you some advice. Let me first qualify my self, here. I was a die hard meth user for nearly 13 years of my life. Meth users engage in sex that is not only promiscuous, but also becomes very deviant. The drug does that for some reason. Pornography played a major part in my sexual experiences. The whole time, I ignored my faith, and I just ignored God. When I was 26, I got on my knees and prayed the most sincere prayer that I had ever prayed. My addiction and behaviors were taken away by the time I woke up the next day.

I share this, so you understand that I know despair and the desire to get yourself back to the right path.

Now, let me make some suggestions: neither you or I like sports (playing or watching), but have you tried biking? When you have time to yourself, take part in an activity that will work you out a bit. This will serve to take your mind off of lustful thoughts, and at the same time, will help your body to function better. I’m no doctor, but I have seen the effects of exercise first hand cure a lot of psychological quirks in my mind. Just walking in general can really help. You may want to get a camera and take pictures on your walks - this could be a new hobby; I would wager that you are a pretty creative person … build on that.

Also, diet - I would reconsider the vegetarian ideal. Your body needs animal fats and proteins. Unless there is a health risk, I would recommend that you have meat in your diet (not on Fridays, though ).

Lastly, STOP HAVING ANXIETY!!! I know you are. Do not do that to yourself. This is just a set of problems that can be fixed with prayer, firstly, Sacraments, secondly, and the things I mentioned above. I believe you will have what you need from God to get past these problems.

Typical Teen … I don’t believe you are just typical. I believe you will have you questions answered, and that you will be restored. You are in my thoughts, brother; and in my prayers as well.

Wait … I’m not done … one more thing. When an urge presents itself, have a plan on how to move past it. Find a book and have it ready, or have an activity like I mentioned above to redirect yourself to.

 

[Epsilon_Omega]

typical_teen,

Find an accountability buddy to talk to and to be held up by. When you fail or mess up its so hard to fight it by yourself. I struggle with masturbation and pornography. I recently went 12 days without masturbation, but failed. In my life, once I get rid of masturbation, I won’t have a need for pornography. If you need anyone to talk to PM me whenever you get on and we can figure something out. I’ll pray for you.

Gabe

 

[Jehu]

Speaking as a 17 year old teenage male, I know how you feel. Before I came back to the Church I had great trouble with lust, and particularly masturbation.

What helped me was weekly confession, and the embarressment that resulted from having to tell my parish priest my sexual habits. It certainly made me think twice before doing anything again. Plus I think God gives you supernatural grace to help deal with the urges.

If you’re having a lot of trouble with masturbation, maybe you should try self-induced pain. Nothing too extreme, of course. Mother Theresa, Padre Pio and Saint Josemaría Escrivá all used the cilice as a form of penance. Remember St Paul: “I chastise my body and bring it into subjection: lest perhaps when I have preached to others I myself should be castaway” (I Cor. 9:27).

 

[urban-hermit]

Deary Typical Teen,

Thank you for starting this thread.

I agree that God is making Himself known to you through the retreat you went on and the youth group priest who is making confession more available. You are on the right track!

I praise and thank our God for you and for all the inspiring people who have posted in this thread. God is great! - “Blessed be God in His angels and in His saints”!

Like you, I have struggled with Same-Sex Attraction. It can be difficult, but with God’s grace we can continue to grow in virtue if we strive to do things His way and are faithful to Him.

Don’t let anybody tell you that God cannot heal. Our God can, has, and continues to heal sicknesses and disorders of every imaginable kind. There is ample proof of this. The angel told Mary “Nothing is impossible with God” and that angel knew what he was talking about.

Please be encouraged in hope and know that God loves you as you are right now, will always love you, and wants only goodness and holiness for all of us, so that we can be all that we can be, now and in heaven.

 

[Exalt]

My advice:

Don’t sweat it. It’s unneccessary stress. In 5 years you’ll look back and realize it was a way bigger deal than you thought it was. Most folks here are quick to flood you with guilt trips…

Chronic masturbation may be part of a deeper mental problem. Why is it so absurd to grasp some times disordered acts may be associated with impaired mental health?

Homosexual desire is intrinsically disordered. A post-pubescent primary same sex attraction is a symptom of an underlying psychological (psychosexual) disorder for the obvious reason that SSA is disordered and sources from our psyche.

Don’t buy in to it. Others will give you tons of advice that (1) won’t work and (2) will just leave you frustrated and very stressed out…

If you’re having a lot of trouble with masturbation, maybe you should try self-induced pain. Nothing too extreme, of course.

I would just have to say that praying the rosary daily may really help you in your struggles to be pure and chaste. After all, Mary is one of the best examples of living a chaste life.

I forgot to mention fasting! Trust me it works!

I have just the Saint for you: St. Dominic Savio. He is the patron Saint of teenage boys! I hope you will find his life inspiring. If you get a chance to look at it I’d like to know what you think. You will be in my prayers at daily Mass and Rosary.

You don’t need to fast on food. Give up something else.

perhaps you should filter it to help you think twice before doing so.

true_believer:

I also thought the idea of counting the days that you are chaste, like many recovering alcoholics or those who are quitting smoking count the days that they have been sober / not smoked, was a great idea that may prove very effective.

Basically, here’s what happens when you try to follow the Church’s teaching on masturbation (don’t do it):

You’ll go through a continuous cycle of guilt. You’ve probably already felt it.** It will start with sexual arousal of some kind** - that you may or may not be able to suppress. If you’re strictly following the conservative position within Catholicism, you’ll try very hard to make those feelings go away. You might succeed for a day or two - maybe even a week (especially if you’re busy). But eventually it will be too much and you’ll give in. And when it’s over, you will remember what people on this forum have told you and you’ll feel horribly guilty about it. You’ll continue to feel guilty about it until you go to confession - where you can clear your conscience and have that feeling of freedom.** Until, of course, you get aroused again**. And then you’ll give in. And feel guilty about it. And go to confession and feel great. And so on and so on.

Of course, you’ll continue to do things to help stop yourself. Maybe you will start praying the rosary every day. Maybe you’ll even take Jehu’s advice (and I really hope you don’t) and hurt yourself. Maybe you’ll start counting the days since you last masturbated. Maybe you’ll fast. Or go to mass every day. But, of course, all of this only reinforces the guilt/redemption cycle and will never solve (what you percieve to be) the real problem.

Let me tell you something: That cycle is very unhealthy. It’s very bad. It’s unneccessary stress at a very critical time of development. I highly recommend you just close this forum and don’t worry about it. Don’t listen to these religious people - thier advice will only serve to reinforce the guilt trip. It will only make things worse. That much, I can garuntee you. You won’t feel better by feeling bad about it. Going to confession every week won’t help. Hurting yourself won’t help. Counting the “sober” days won’t help. Praying the rosary every day won’t help. Fasting won’t help. Nothing is going to help the real problem - which is the guilt trip itself.

You’re a teenager. You’ve got raging hormones. Those two factors are hard enough to deal with. There is absolutely no reason you need to make matters worse by worrying over all this.

My final advice:

It’s okay to masturbate (gasp! I said it!).

Be chill. Be a teenager. Grow and learn. Go play sports or play games or whatever you teenagers like to do. When you do masturbate, don’t worry about it. Keep it private and move on with your life. It’s nothing to worry about. Teenage boys have been doing it for thousands of years. It’s normal. It’s probably even healthy.

Stop the cycle of guilt. It does you more harm than good.

 

[Jart]

My advice:

Don’t sweat it. It’s unneccessary stress. In 5 years you’ll look back and realize it was a way bigger deal than you thought it was. Most folks here are quick to flood you with guilt trips…

Don’t buy in to it. Others will give you tons of advice that (1) won’t work and (2) will just leave you frustrated and very stressed out…

Basically, here’s what happens when you try to follow the Church’s teaching on masturbation (don’t do it):

You’ll go through a continuous cycle of guilt. You’ve probably already felt it.** It will start with sexual arousal of some kind** - that you may or may not be able to suppress. If you’re strictly following the conservative position within Catholicism, you’ll try very hard to make those feelings go away. You might succeed for a day or two - maybe even a week (especially if you’re busy). But eventually it will be too much and you’ll give in. And when it’s over, you will remember what people on this forum have told you and you’ll feel horribly guilty about it. You’ll continue to feel guilty about it until you go to confession - where you can clear your conscience and have that feeling of freedom.** Until, of course, you get aroused again**. And then you’ll give in. And feel guilty about it. And go to confession and feel great. And so on and so on.

Of course, you’ll continue to do things to help stop yourself. Maybe you will start praying the rosary every day. Maybe you’ll even take Jehu’s advice (and I really hope you don’t) and hurt yourself. Maybe you’ll start counting the days since you last masturbated. Maybe you’ll fast. Or go to mass every day. But, of course, all of this only reinforces the guilt/redemption cycle and will never solve (what you percieve to be) the real problem.

Let me tell you something: That cycle is very unhealthy. It’s very bad. It’s unneccessary stress at a very critical time of development. I highly recommend you just close this forum and don’t worry about it. Don’t listen to these religious people - thier advice will only serve to reinforce the guilt trip. It will only make things worse. That much, I can garuntee you. You won’t feel better by feeling bad about it. Going to confession every week won’t help. Hurting yourself won’t help. Counting the “sober” days won’t help. Praying the rosary every day won’t help. Fasting won’t help. Nothing is going to help the real problem - which is the guilt trip itself.

You’re a teenager. You’ve got raging hormones. Those two factors are hard enough to deal with. There is absolutely no reason you need to make matters worse by worrying over all this.

My final advice:

It’s okay to masturbate (gasp! I said it!).

Be chill. Be a teenager. Grow and learn. Go play sports or play games or whatever you teenagers like to do. When you do masturbate, don’t worry about it. Keep it private and move on with your life. It’s nothing to worry about. Teenage boys have been doing it for thousands of years. It’s normal. It’s probably even healthy.

Stop the cycle of guilt. It does you more harm than good.

Are you kidding me? Don’t listen to these religious people? Is that what you just said. Listen bro he came here for advice from Catholics. That is what he is getting. You know people have gotten over that habit doing what everyone just suggested. Don’t tell him to give up and pretend it is not a sin. It is a sin. I’m sorry but the guild is part of getting over this. You are saying all of this is “unnecessary.” How is receiving the sacraments and fasting bad? This thread wasn’t even mostly about masturbation. It’s about his same sex attraction. I want to see a response from someone who got over this because I know there are MANY on this board.

It is an addiction typical teen. Don’t stop trying but when you fall don’t beat yourself up. When it is an addiction culpability is diminished and that is probably your case. Keep trying but don’t feel so bad.

 

[Exalt]

Are you kidding me? Don’t listen to these religious people? Is that what you just said. Listen bro he came here for advice from Catholics. That is what he is getting. You know people have gotten over that habit doing what everyone just suggested. Don’t tell him to give up and pretend it is not a sin. It is a sin. I’m sorry but the guild is part of getting over this. You are saying all of this is “unnecessary.” How is receiving the sacraments and fasting bad? This thread wasn’t even mostly about masturbation. It’s about his same sex attraction. I want to see a response from someone who got over this because I know there are MANY on this board.

It is an addiction typical teen. Don’t stop trying but when you fall don’t beat yourself up. When it is an addiction culpability is diminished and that is probably your case. Keep trying but don’t feel so bad.

It’s not a sin.

He shouldn’t worry about it.

No one should.

 

[strngrnrth]

It’s a sin the same as alcoholism, temper and addiction to meth, all of which have genetic aspects, environmental and early-life aspects,and chosen behavioral aspects. Some people struggle more with SSA than others. Me? I struggle more with drugs, alcohol and violent temper than most, but I have overcome them. Cycles of frustration? Hello, my life! But the Lord has carried me over thresholds I could never have vaulted alone. It took years and some false moments of assurance, when I thought I had it beat and it clobbered me again. But I make it a little longer and more confidently each time around. Don’t give up the fight, buddy. We’re pulling for you. God cares very much about your future.

 

[Catholig]

Exalt,

You’re basically trying to destroy this teenagers faith. You might not realize it, you may even think that you are helping him but you are none the less destroying his belief in Catholicism, and possibly God. And the reason why is this - If you cannot believe the Church when she says that Masturbation is a Mortal Sin - then how can you believe her when she says Adultery, Fornication, Contraceptives, Murder, Theft, Rape, Suicide, et cetera are sins? You can’t trust her authority to tell the faithful that anything is or isn’t sinful. And from there it is only one more step to assume - “why believe in the magisterium or papacy they are the ones making up these stupid rules. They say that masturbation is a sin. They’re misguided”. And then from there only one more to assume that their misguided nature goes past the boundaries of morality but also into doctrine (“real presence, immaculate conception yeah right.” ).

The simple truth is that Masturbation is sin and that Rosary, Confession, and Daily Mass will all help.

Catholig

 

[setter]

As a side note:

I wish people in the Church would be more careful about how they word things. Speak the truth always, but speak it with love. … Truth in charity is the only thing that will win people over.

It would be helpful to understand your perception if you would quote the words that you consider uncharitable, otherwise, anything not agreeable can be subjectively characterized and dismissed as mean spirited.

Originally posted by PaxCaritas
I have been to many Catholic websites where things are written by supposedly devout Catholics that are just plain hateful.

I hope that you are not including my post in such a provocative and judgmental characterization.

 

[setter]

Anyway, I think we agree on the main point - homosexuality is disordered (if we are using disordered as a philosophical and not a psychological term).

Homosexual attraction is disordered as a specifically psychological definition and term. Simple: Our sexual attraction resides within our mental faculties, i.e., psychology. Whether one chooses to ponder the meaning and existential implications of such a condition is a secondary function of the intellect.

 

[blessedtoo]

Exalt,
I believe you remain intentionally and stubbornly blind. You have been around here long enough to have witnessed the many, many testimonies of folks who have not only overcome their habitual sins and sexual confusions, but have also flourished in their faith. Just a few posts before your tirade Urban-hermit gave a wonderful testimony that I know to be completely authentic. I have also given personal testimony about overcoming SSA and living a chaste life with complete joy and peace. You need only check out the many threads about this issue to see that not only do these “religious” people know how to help someone who seeks guidance, but they are also trying to help people attain eternal salvation. What exactly are you trying to accomplish? I am truly heartsick that the suggestions you see given here have not served to soften your heart even a bit. This is a young Catholic boy seeking guidance from Catholics. Why would you try to steer him away? The kind of advice you offer can be purchased off any magazine rack or in any book store - pop psychology where everything goes is the order of the day. He clearly isn’t seeking that nonsense. He is looking for the truth.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

Don’t buy in to it. Others will give you tons of advice that won’t work and will just leave you frustrated and very stressed out

With God, all things are possible. Giving up is pathetic. This young man is heroic and courageous for seeking virtue.

Basically, here’s what happens when you try to follow the Church’s teaching on masturbation (don’t do it):

When you do it right, you experience divine grace, the transformation (not elimination) of your sexual desire, a life of virtue, and freedom from concupiscence.

If you’re strictly following the conservative position within Catholicism, you’ll try very hard to make those feelings go away.

Here you demonstrate a complete lack of comprehension of the Catholic moral life. Your statement that “following the conservative position with Catholicism” entails trying “very hard to make those feelings go away” reveals both a foolish misunderstanding of the Catholic understanding of human sexuality in its theological teachings and a misconception of the practical ways to avoid sin. You clearly haven’t tried a life of sexual virtue, as your words demonstrate an ignorance of even the most basic ideas on purity.

Don’t respond to this by claiming that you do understand Catholic teachings on human sexuality; it’s too late for that. Your words will be hollow and empty, for you’ve already demonstrated by them that you understand very little.

You might succeed for a day or two - maybe even a week (especially if you’re busy). But eventually it will be too much and you’ll give in. And when it’s over, you will remember what people on this forum have told you and you’ll feel horribly guilty about it. You’ll continue to feel guilty about it until you go to confession - where you can clear your conscience and have that feeling of freedom.** Until, of course, you get aroused again**. And then you’ll give in. And feel guilty about it. And go to confession and feel great. And so on and so on.

The method you describe is indeed foolish and doesn’t work. You are one of the few people I’ve heard from who actually thinks this way of attempting to eliminate sin - clearly described and denouned by Christopher West in Good News About Sex & Marriage - is advocated by the Church.

Of course, you’ll continue to do things to help stop yourself. Maybe you will start praying the rosary every day. Maybe you’ll start counting the days since you last masturbated. Maybe you’ll fast. Or go to mass every day. But, of course, all of this only reinforces the guilt/redemption cycle and will never solve (what you percieve to be) the real problem.

Your audacity is truly amazing; don’t you realize that you’re in blatant denial, as there are many examples of living people right now who have had problems with masturbation, and no longer do?

Sit back a moment and reflect on the arrogant nature of your claims - you’re either claiming that the people I described above (those who have successfully stopped masturbating and are happy and spiritual) either don’t exist (what, are they illusions or something?) or that all of them are complete liars.

How ridiculous.

Let me tell you something: That cycle is very unhealthy. It’s very bad. Don’t listen to these religious people - their advice will only serve to reinforce the guilt trip. It will only make things worse. Going to confession every week won’t help. Counting the “sober” days won’t help. Praying the rosary every day won’t help. Fasting won’t help. Nothing is going to help the real problem - which is the guilt trip itself.

Guilt has a purpose, just like pain. Without pain, we would probably physically die very soon. Without guilt,spiritual death is just as inevitable.

You’re a teenager. You’ve got raging hormones.
My final advice: It’s okay to masturbate (gasp! I said it!).

This young man wants help from fellow orthodox Catholics on how to overcome his habit of habitual masturbation and how to live a life of sexual virtue. Your “advice” is not welcome here. Take your rationalizations somewhere else to people who have had so little exposure to God’s grace that they may actually see them as wise.

When you do masturbate, don’t worry about it. It’s nothing to worry about. Stop the cycle of guilt. It does you more harm than good.

I pity anyone who thinks the only way to stop guilt is to stop listening to it. I pity anyone who thinks virtue is not possible, or at least not compatible with happiness.

I will pray for you.

 

[blessedtoo]

I pity anyone who thinks the only way to stop guilt is to stop listening to it. I pity anyone who thinks virtue is not possible, or at least not compatible with happiness.

I will pray for you.

Excellent post. Thank you for the clarity and compassion. God bless.