I want to buy sexy lingerie for honeymoon, but...

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I’m sorry but I think it is only natural to “think about what you will be doing” on the honeymoon! Hello! It’s not about just sipping coffee in the morning together!
This is your spouse. The one you are to “become one” with.
To wonder what it will be like, to anticipate the nuptial embrace, to look forward to it - (especially those rare couples today that have WAITED) is absolutely normal. To those that wait sexual intercourse is “mysterious”. New. Unknown. And something each KNOWS they are soon to participate in. Of course each will be nervous and wonder what it will be like!
To say you must not think on these things or imagine them is in my opinion disordered thinking and risks making the beauty and wonder of marital sex somehow dirty and off-limits save for an almost mechanical aspect! <— NOT what God intended! (Read Song of Solomon!)

God is the creator and designer of sex for married people.
He created it to be delightful, passionate and to feel good.
Otherwise - who would participate in it?
It is only when you think of sex with your spouse for you OWN selfish purposes (thereby using the other as an object) and not for the beauty of uniting as one and GIVING pleasure and love to the other that it becomes lust and therefore sinful.

I think we need to be really careful here not to become scrupulous.
The world needs to hear and know that it is the Catholic Church’s (and therefore God’s) teaching on sex that is true and beautiful and freeing and wonderful and fulfilling!
Not that it is so restrictive as to not even allow you to look forward to or think about your upcoming wedding night with your beloved!
That kind of thinking has turned off many in the world to what the Catholic Church teaches on sex.
That is why “Theology of the Body” and Christopher West and Jason Everret are all such gifts to the Church and the world.
They are promulgating the real truth and the real message about sex and it’s beauty in it’s proper place to the world. 👍
 
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LovedOne:
I’m sorry but I think it is only natural to “think about what you will be doing” on the honeymoon! Hello! It’s not about just sipping coffee in the morning together!
This is your spouse. The one you are to “become one” with.
To wonder what it will be like, to anticipate the nuptial embrace, to look forward to it - (especially those rare couples today that have WAITED) is absolutely normal. To those that wait sexual intercourse is “mysterious”. New. Unknown. And something each KNOWS they are soon to participate in. Of course each will be nervous and wonder what it will be like!
To say you must not think on these things or imagine them is in my opinion disordered thinking and risks making the beauty and wonder of marital sex somehow dirty and off-limits save for an almost mechanical aspect! <— NOT what God intended! (Read Song of Solomon!)

God is the creator and designer of sex for married people.
He created it to be delightful, passionate and to feel good.
Otherwise - who would participate in it?
It is only when you think of sex with your spouse for you OWN selfish purposes (thereby using the other as an object) and not for the beauty of uniting as one and GIVING pleasure and love to the other that it becomes lust and therefore sinful.

I think we need to be really careful here not to become scrupulous.
The world needs to hear and know that it is the Catholic Church’s (and therefore God’s) teaching on sex that is true and beautiful and freeing and wonderful and fulfilling!
Not that it is so restrictive as to not even allow you to look forward to or think about your upcoming wedding night with your beloved!
That kind of thinking has turned off many in the world to what the Catholic Church teaches on sex.
That is why “Theology of the Body” and Christopher West and Jason Everret are all such gifts to the Church and the world.
They are promulgating the real truth and the real message about sex and it’s beauty in it’s proper place to the world. 👍
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Sorry, but saying that a single person can sit and think about sexual acts is what is right, and it would be disordered to say otherwise is actually disordered.
Sex is a beautiful thing within marriage. I agree with what you say that is ok be excited and looking forward to the embrace, but you can do that without actually thinking of specific acts. The act itself, when done within marriage, is sacramental. It is a wonderful gift, its true. In the act you are giving yourself to your spouse, your spouse has to be there to receive it!!! If you are on your own, not even married, just thinking about it you don’t even have a spouse to give yourself to, and if you did, he/she isn’t even there.
How close do you have to be to your marriage for it to be ok? How about people that have real long engagements? What if you aren’t engaged yet but are talking about marriage? What if you just started dating, but think they may be the one? If you are a virgin and are anticipating the marriage act, which is good, can you think about it?
If this was ok, then it would be ok for a young teenage boy to imagine the marital act too, if he makes sure he imagines he is married to the girl.

My resource were several good priests, how about yours? I have read and am familiar with much of Christopher West’s work and Theology of the Body and Love and Responsibility from JPII, along with other Church documents and have never seen anything that would suggest what you are saying.

Sex was made to be used within marriage, between a man and a woman. This use of sex is not only good, but it is sacramental and holy. Any other uses of sex are not good, they are disordered. And even within marriage, chastity must be observed.
Seeking to use sex correctly is not scrupulosity, it is seeking to do what is right.
 
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12345678:
Sorry, but saying that a single person can sit and think about sexual acts is what is right, and it would be disordered to say otherwise is actually disordered.
Sex is a beautiful thing within marriage. I agree with what you say that is ok be excited and looking forward to the embrace, but you can do that without actually thinking of specific acts. The act itself, when done within marriage, is sacramental. It is a wonderful gift, its true. In the act you are giving yourself to your spouse, your spouse has to be there to receive it!!! If you are on your own, not even married, just thinking about it you don’t even have a spouse to give yourself to, and if you did, he/she isn’t even there.
How close do you have to be to your marriage for it to be ok? How about people that have real long engagements? What if you aren’t engaged yet but are talking about marriage? What if you just started dating, but think they may be the one? If you are a virgin and are anticipating the marriage act, which is good, can you think about it?
If this was ok, then it would be ok for a young teenage boy to imagine the marital act too, if he makes sure he imagines he is married to the girl.

My resource were several good priests, how about yours? I have read and am familiar with much of Christopher West’s work and Theology of the Body and Love and Responsibility from JPII, along with other Church documents and have never seen anything that would suggest what you are saying.

Sex was made to be used within marriage, between a man and a woman. This use of sex is not only good, but it is sacramental and holy. Any other uses of sex are not good, they are disordered. And even within marriage, chastity must be observed.
Seeking to use sex correctly is not scrupulosity, it is seeking to do what is right.
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My sources are the same as yours.
Does not mean we interpreted them the same way.
Again, the definition of “lust” must be examined. Thinking of sexual union or even activity falls into sin when the PURPOSE of it is to arouse passions or objectify another person.
Tell me which of those a young lady about to be married is guilty of by wondering, looking forward to and imagining being with her beloved on the wedding night??
I think it DOES fall into scrupulosity to suggest that you cannot even think about it or imagine it. There is no lust in that scenario therefore no sin.

I was not talking about a teenage boy or an engaged person whose wedding date was long off.

So please reexamine the definition of lust. It is not the same as desire which can be very properly ordered.
 
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LovedOne:
My sources are the same as yours.
Does not mean we interpreted them the same way.
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The priests I spoke with were flat out clear, no interpretation necessary.
 
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12345678:
The priests I spoke with were flat out clear, no interpretation necessary.
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No, you had to interpret what they were saying and meant.
 
Also from the vatican website, THE TRUTH AND MEANING
OF HUMAN SEXUALITY:
“Every person knows, by experience, that chastity requires rejecting certain thoughts, words and sinful actions, as Saint Paul was careful to clarify and point out (cf. Romans 1:18; 6: 12-14; 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11; 2 Corinthians 7: 1; Galatians 5: 16-23; Ephesians 4: 17-24; 5: 3-13; Colossians 3: 5-8; 1 Thessalonians 4: 1-18; 1 Timothy 1: 8-11; 4: 12). To achieve this requires ability and an attitude of self-mastery which are signs of inner freedom, of responsibility towards oneself and others. At the same time, these signs bear witness to a faithful conscience. *Such self-mastery involves both avoiding occasions * which might provoke or encourage sin as well as knowing how to overcome one’s own natural instinctive impulses.”
Hence the argument that it is normal is not valid. Thinking yourself performing sexual acts with a person you are highly attracted to, but not even married to, is at least an occasion that might provoke sin (of impure thoughts), if not a sin already. It is part of our human nature.
 
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LovedOne:
No, you had to interpret what they were saying and meant.
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How many ways are there to interpret a sentence like:
“Yes, it is wrong.”?
 
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12345678:
How many ways are there to interpret a sentence like:
“Yes, it is wrong.”?
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Perhaps you were asking a different question?

It’s wrong to fantasize sexually, but to just consider the sex act - in a way that doesn’t inspire lustful feelings - I’m not sure that’s really wrong. I don’t dwell on X-rated images or anything like that. I don’t get a “turned on” feeling from it, either.

Even though in my OP I asked if it was wrong, I guess I was thinking more like “Is it wrong to plan something saucy and spicy?” I don’t think it’s automatically wrong to envision sex at all.

For example, I have a lot of scarring and stuff from the birth of my son. I had two surgeries to repair my “down there” and the last time I talked to a gynocologist, he told me that I might have trouble with marital relations. Anyway, I have to say that I’m a bit worried about this. I worry that there will be “owies” during certain activities. It’s impossible not to have some rather vivid images in my mind. I’ve even gone so far as to hope that he’s, um, compatible in phsysiognomy/won’t be likely to hurt me.

But, I don’t think that’s wrong.
 
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katybird:
Perhaps you were asking a different question?

It’s wrong to fantasize sexually, but to just consider the sex act - in a way that doesn’t inspire lustful feelings - I’m not sure that’s really wrong. I don’t dwell on X-rated images or anything like that. I don’t get a “turned on” feeling from it, either.

Even though in my OP I asked if it was wrong, I guess I was thinking more like “Is it wrong to plan something saucy and spicy?” I don’t think it’s automatically wrong to envision sex at all.

For example, I have a lot of scarring and stuff from the birth of my son. I had two surgeries to repair my “down there” and the last time I talked to a gynocologist, he told me that I might have trouble with marital relations. Anyway, I have to say that I’m a bit worried about this. I worry that there will be “owies” during certain activities. It’s impossible not to have some rather vivid images in my mind. I’ve even gone so far as to hope that he’s, um, compatible in phsysiognomy/won’t be likely to hurt me.

But, I don’t think that’s wrong.
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Actually I was addressing what the other poster, LovedOne, was saying:
“I’m sorry but I think it is only natural to “think about what you will be doing” on the honeymoon! Hello! It’s not about just sipping coffee in the morning together!
This is your spouse. The one you are to “become one” with.
To wonder what it will be like, to anticipate the nuptial embrace, to look forward to it - (especially those rare couples today that have WAITED) is absolutely normal. To those that wait sexual intercourse is “mysterious”. New. Unknown. And something each KNOWS they are soon to participate in. Of course each will be nervous and wonder what it will be like!
To say you must not think on these things or imagine them is in my opinion disordered thinking and risks making the beauty and wonder of marital sex somehow dirty and off-limits save for an almost mechanical aspect! <— NOT what God intended! (Read Song of Solomon!)”

Now, with what you are saying… what is the difference between dwelling on an x-rated act and considering a sexual act?

BTW, the question I had asked was would it be wrong to not reject any thought of my future husband and I engaging in any sexual act, even if I thought I could “handle” it without sinning.

The problem is 1. It could be an occasion of sin, flesh is weak, even if the devil wants us to believe otherwise 2. Sex is not to entertain our minds. It is an act to be shared with another person.

With that said, once I had asked about it, I was able to buy nice lingerie for my honeymoon without thinking of sexual acts, so it is doable.

One more thing I learned was to be careful with what I bought etc. With original sin sometimes it is hard to separate love from lust. We have to be careful with what we buy to avoid objectifying ourselves. Taking this into consideration, its ok to buy stuff beforehand, just don’t sit around and think of what you will be doing. Be careful to not get steered into what society nowadays paints sex to be, focusing on the spicing up of it more than on its true meaning of surrender of oneself to become one with another.
That is what I learned when preparing for marriage.

If I were you I would go to a good priest and ask him for yourself. Also, Christopher West’s “Good News about Sex and Marriage” is a good book to read on this. It helps clear a lot of misconceptions of what is ok or not ok.
 
Can I just step in here and say that I believe that everyone here is saying the same thing? I think some just don’t like the wording others are using.

I, myself, thought often about the meaning of the wedding night. That doesn’t mean I sat there and fantasized about it. It means I knew what was going to happen and couldn’t wait to receive the beautiful gift that God gives to married couples and no, it wasn’t about sipping coffee! 👍 I dont’ think that you’ll find a priest who thinks it’s wrong to anticipate or to look forward to the nuptial embrace. Fantasizing about it wouldn’t be right. Aren’t we all on the same page here?
 
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12345678:
Also from the vatican website, THE TRUTH AND MEANING
OF HUMAN SEXUALITY:
“Every person knows, by experience, that chastity requires rejecting certain thoughts, words and sinful actions, as Saint Paul was careful to clarify and point out (cf. Romans 1:18; 6: 12-14; 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11; 2 Corinthians 7: 1; Galatians 5: 16-23; Ephesians 4: 17-24; 5: 3-13; Colossians 3: 5-8; 1 Thessalonians 4: 1-18; 1 Timothy 1: 8-11; 4: 12). To achieve this requires ability and an attitude of self-mastery which are signs of inner freedom, of responsibility towards oneself and others. At the same time, these signs bear witness to a faithful conscience. **Such self-mastery involves both *avoiding occasions *** which might provoke or encourage sin as well as knowing how to overcome one’s own natural instinctive impulses.”
Hence the argument that it is normal is not valid. Thinking yourself performing sexual acts with a person you are highly attracted to, but not even married to, is at least an occasion that might provoke sin (of impure thoughts), if not a sin already. It is part of our human nature.
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Nothing you quoted above negates what I said.
 
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LovedOne:
Nothing you quoted above negates what I said.
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You said “it is only natural to “think about what you will be doing” on the honeymoon! Hello! It’s not about just sipping coffee in the morning together!” and I was saying that this is not a valid argument to make it correct. Just because it is “natural” does not mean it is correct, which is reflected in the quote: “Such self-mastery involves both avoiding occasions which might provoke or encourage sin as well as knowing how to overcome one’s own natural instinctive impulses.”
 
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bear06:
Can I just step in here and say that I believe that everyone here is saying the same thing? I think some just don’t like the wording others are using.

I, myself, thought often about the meaning of the wedding night. That doesn’t mean I sat there and fantasized about it. It means I knew what was going to happen and couldn’t wait to receive the beautiful gift that God gives to married couples and no, it wasn’t about sipping coffee! 👍 I dont’ think that you’ll find a priest who thinks it’s wrong to anticipate or to look forward to the nuptial embrace. Fantasizing about it wouldn’t be right. Aren’t we all on the same page here?
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I agree with you, if what you are saying is that you looked forward to it and anticipated it, but did not imagine sexual acts themselves, which is what other people are saying it ok.
 
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12345678:
I agree with you, if what you are saying is that you looked forward to it and anticipated it, but did not imagine sexual acts themselves, which is what other people are saying it ok.
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Fantasizing and “imagining” are two different things.

It sounds like Katybird has every reason to “imagine” her wedding night in chaste terms but in wondering if things will all go well and happily. Having had major surgery and scarring in that area, of course she’s right to wonder or anticipate if intercourse will be painful, and if so, what she might do beforehand to alleviate it or make the act more comfortable. (By the way, Katybird, you might considering stretching yourself in the same way you might have prepared for childbirth, though check with your doctor first.) Assessing her situation is certainly not sinful, as it doesn’t appear that she’s dwelling on a fantasy about her wedding night past wondering if she’ll be able to enjoy her spouse, pain-free! And maybe wondering if he likes the color blue on her. Nothing wrong with that.

Katybird, you also mentioned wondering if it was okay to “plan” this or that. I think open communication is very important. Actually, in our pre-cana class and weekend, we were encouraged to talk about the wedding night and relate to one another what our expectations, fears or excited anticipations might be. This was a piece of the presentation actually given to us by the priest and not the married couple. He said he’s seen many couples in his office shortly after the marriage ceremony, one or both in tears because expectations weren’t properly discussed beforehand and marital love wasn’t approached realistically. Practically speaking, couples who are using NFP will need to discuss whether they can even consummate on their wedding night and might even choose to plan their honeymoon around the future wife’s cycle, if they have just reason to abstain. Father also pointed out that couples need to discuss that even if they can by all intents and purposes consummate on their wedding night–they should decide mutually if they want to wait that first night after all. Evening weddings and nighttime receptions are very draining and tiring after a long day of emotions, etc. He would often suggest to couples that they discuss waiting until the next day or evening to truly spend time with each other and not be sleepy or tired or even cranky or rushed.

There is nothing wrong with talking about it in a non-arousing, chaste way and treating each other’s sexuality with dignity. Ignoring it and hoping to not deal with the subject or practicalities involved until after the wedding is not healthy.

Furthermore, there are also aspects of foreplay that are within moral bounds but are personal choices and preferences. Given that these situations will arise in any marriage, anyone approaching their wedding night needs to have thought through what their boundaries are and what they feel comfortable with in terms of loving their spouse. This can be done objectively and without “entertaining” arousing thoughts.
 
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Princess_Abby:
Fantasizing and “imagining” are two different things.

It sounds like Katybird has every reason to “imagine” her wedding night in chaste terms but in wondering if things will all go well and happily. Having had major surgery and scarring in that area, of course she’s right to wonder or anticipate if intercourse will be painful, and if so, what she might do beforehand to alleviate it or make the act more comfortable. (By the way, Katybird, you might considering stretching yourself in the same way you might have prepared for childbirth, though check with your doctor first.) Assessing her situation is certainly not sinful, as it doesn’t appear that she’s dwelling on a fantasy about her wedding night past wondering if she’ll be able to enjoy her spouse, pain-free! And maybe wondering if he likes the color blue on her. Nothing wrong with that.

Katybird, you also mentioned wondering if it was okay to “plan” this or that. I think open communication is very important. Actually, in our pre-cana class and weekend, we were encouraged to talk about the wedding night and relate to one another what our expectations, fears or excited anticipations might be. This was a piece of the presentation actually given to us by the priest and not the married couple. He said he’s seen many couples in his office shortly after the marriage ceremony, one or both in tears because expectations weren’t properly discussed beforehand and marital love wasn’t approached realistically. Practically speaking, couples who are using NFP will need to discuss whether they can even consummate on their wedding night and might even choose to plan their honeymoon around the future wife’s cycle, if they have just reason to abstain. Father also pointed out that couples need to discuss that even if they can by all intents and purposes consummate on their wedding night–they should decide mutually if they want to wait that first night after all. Evening weddings and nighttime receptions are very draining and tiring after a long day of emotions, etc. He would often suggest to couples that they discuss waiting until the next day or evening to truly spend time with each other and not be sleepy or tired or even cranky or rushed.

There is nothing wrong with talking about it in a non-arousing, chaste way and treating each other’s sexuality with dignity. Ignoring it and hoping to not deal with the subject or practicalities involved until after the wedding is not healthy.
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From what you said, it sounds to me like he said to discuss expectations, etc, but not the acts themselves, so I am not sure how this is relevant. Discussing NFP does not entail discussing the act itself graphically (as one would imagine it). Discussing whether or not you will wait till the next day doesn’t entail discussing the act graphically either. If he did suggest for you to talk about the sexual acts themselves, that sounds very odd.
 
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12345678:
From what you said, it sounds to me like he said to discuss expectations, etc, but not the acts themselves, so I am not sure how this is relevant. If he did suggest for you to talk about the sexual acts themselves, that sounds very odd.
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Seems to me that a discussion about expectations will very likely lead to a discussion about the acts themselves and I do not see how that would be wrong.
 
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12345678:
From what you said, it sounds to me like he said to discuss expectations, etc, but not the acts themselves, so I am not sure how this is relevant. If he did suggest for you to talk about the sexual acts themselves, that sounds very odd.
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He did suggest we discuss what we are comfortable with on our wedding night with our future spouses, and specifically what we would be uncomfortable with so as to have a set of clear expectations. Many chaste, praciticing Catholics have set their feet firmly in virtue and are not going to be driven to sin merely by discussing a topic relevant to their future marital intimacy and health. Discussing something usually involves thinking.

And that was also only half of my post.

Katybird, I wish you the best on your wedding night and pray that your preparations are both adequate and full of anticipation for a long, happy life together with your new spouse.
 
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CuriousInIL:
Seems to me that a discussion about expectations will very likeluy lead to a discussion about the acts themselves and I do not see how that would be wrong.
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Exactly.
 
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CuriousInIL:
Seems to me that a discussion about expectations will very likeluy lead to a discussion about the acts themselves and I do not see how that would be wrong.
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I can’t imagine why it would be necessary to discuss stuff like “first I will do this to you, then you do that”, whatever you do on your wedding night should happen naturally, you don’t need to plan every act graphically.
 
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12345678:
I can’t imagine why it would be necessary to discuss stuff like “first I will do this to you, then you do that”, whatever you do on your wedding night should happen naturally, you don’t need to plan every act graphically.
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I don’t think it will or needs to turn into a first this then that discussion. However, it could easily (and should) include a “I am not at all interested in _____ but we could ______.”
 
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