I was converted from Catholicism to Christ at the age of 19.

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Christ did not describe a choice, BUT, what in fact each different servant did.

Tearing apart the didactic nature of a parable in order to make a dogmatic statement gets one into trouble.

The conclusion of the parable is that there will be varying degrees of punishment in hell, and that ignorance of the will of God does not excuse one from punishment.

**Same set of circumstances.

**Two different attitudes.

Two different responses.

Two different outcomes.

Clearly Christ has in mind two different types of servants.

One wicked, and the other faithful, sensible and blessed.

You are desperate to conform the truth to your dogma.

Unfortunately, it doesn’t fit.

Just imagine that you weren’t tied to a man made dogma.

Try to read the bible without your preconceptions.

What does it actually say in the Word?

 

[mikeledes]

“BUT,” that second slave is wicked, while the first is faithful, sensible and blessed.

The grammatical contrauction of the parable contradicts this notion. First of all, it is clear from the parable that the servant is faithful and wise prior to being given authority:

42And the Lord said, "Who then is the faithful and sensible steward, whom his master will put in charge of his servants, to give them their rations at the proper time?
43"Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.

Note that Jesus says “whom his master will put in charge”, not “has put in charge.” The “finds so doing” is a reference to the giving “their rations at the proper time.” This is the function given to the wise and faithful steward. So, again, he’s wise and faithful prior or the moment he is given this function. And why will he be blessed if his master comes and finds him fulfilling the duties he was assigned?:

**44"Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. **

Because he will be rewarded. That’s the first potential scenario. The second potential scenario is as follows:

**45"But if that slave says in his heart, ‘My master will be a long time in coming,’ and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk; **

The use of “that slave” clearly indictaes he is referring to the single subject of this parable, the faithful and wise steward. Now in the second scenario, the wise and faithful steward abuses the authority given to him (begins to beat the slaves) and turns away from his faithfulness. This reminds me of…

Ezekiel 18:24

**24"But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die. **

God Bless,
Michael

 

[SimonArizona]

You are desperate to conform the truth to your dogma.

Unfortunately, it doesn’t fit.

Just imagine that you weren’t tied to a man made dogma.

Try to read the bible without your preconceptions.

What does it actually say in the Word?

That is a great question, and with 30,000 Christian denominations in disagreement over what the Word says, who is right?

The problem is that the Bible is not the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth.

 

[sandusky]

The grammatical contrauction of the parable contradicts this notion. First of all, it is clear from the parable that the servant is faithful and wise prior to being given authority:

**42And the Lord said, "Who then is the faithful and sensible steward, whom his master will **put in charge of his servants, to give them their rations at the proper time?
43"Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.

Note that Jesus says “whom his master will put in charge”, not “has put in charge.” The “finds so doing” is a reference to the giving “their rations at the proper time.” This is the function given to the wise and faithful steward. So, again, he’s wise and faithful prior or the moment he is given this function. And why will he be blessed if his master comes and finds him fulfilling the duties he was assigned?:

**44"Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. **

Because he will be rewarded. That’s the first potential scenario. The second potential scenario is as follows:

**45"But if that slave **says in his heart, ‘My master will be a long time in coming,’ and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk;

The use of “that slave” clearly indictaes he is referring to the single subject of this parable, the faithful and wise steward. Now in the second scenario, the wise and faithful steward abuses the authority given to him (begins to beat the slaves) and turns away from his faithfulness. This reminds me of…

Ezekiel 18:24

24"But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die.

God Bless,
Michael

**Same set of circumstances.

**Two different attitudes.

Two different responses.

Two different outcomes.

Clearly Christ has in mind two different types of servants.

One wicked, and the other faithful, sensible and blessed.

 

[sandusky]

You are desperate to conform the truth to your dogma.

Unfortunately, it doesn’t fit.

Just imagine that you weren’t tied to a man made dogma.

Try to read the bible without your preconceptions.

What does it actually say in the Word?

**Same set of circumstances.

**Two different attitudes.

Two different responses.

Two different outcomes.

Clearly Christ has in mind two different types of servants.

One wicked, and the other faithful, sensible and blessed.

 

[mikeledes]

No. There were not two different servants. There was only one servant. He started out faithful. He then had a choice. Jesus is showing the outcome of each of his two choices. If he chooses to obey, he will be blessed. If he chooses to disobey, he will be cursed. The outcome is based on his behaviour; not on his initial character. He doesn’t become “wicked” until he begins to behave wickedly.

And what’s interesting is that he accepts the following as referring to a genuine Christian:

**23"For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves.
24"When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him [c]ten thousand talents was brought to him.
25"But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made.
26"So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.’
27"And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt.
28"But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe.’
29"So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you.’
30"But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed.
31"So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened.
32"Then summoning him, his lord said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.
33’Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’
34"And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.
35"My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart." **

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

**Same set of circumstances.

**Two different attitudes.

Two different responses.

Two different outcomes.

Clearly Christ has in mind two different types of servants.

One wicked, and the other faithful, sensible and blessed.

In your opinion, yes. According to the grammatical contrauction of the text, no.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

**Same set of circumstances.

**Two different attitudes.

Two different responses.

Two different outcomes.

Clearly Christ has in mind two different types of servants.

One wicked, and the other faithful, sensible and blessed.

So says Sandusky.

However, the Bible says something completely different.

Who to believe… ???

 

[sandusky]

**Same set of circumstances.

**Two different attitudes.

Two different responses.

Two different outcomes.

Clearly Christ has in mind two different types of servants.

One wicked, and the other faithful, sensible and blessed.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

**Same set of circumstances.

**Two different attitudes.

Two different responses.

Two different outcomes.

Clearly Christ has in mind two different types of servants.

One wicked, and the other faithful, sensible and blessed.

You said that already.

No thanks, I’ll stick to the bible.

 

[mikeledes]

**Same set of circumstances.

**Two different attitudes.

Two different responses.

Two different outcomes.

Clearly Christ has in mind two different types of servants.

One wicked, and the other faithful, sensible and blessed.

One servant - faithful and sensible prior to being assigned the function of taking care of his master slaves;

Two potentially different outcomes:

1. He remains faithful and sesible by faithfully fulfilling the function given to him by his master and is rewarded when his master comes back.
2. He eases to be faithful and abuses those servants put under his charge by his master and is punished.

The use of the future tense (will be) clearly indicates that the faithful steward is faithful at the moment he was assigned his function.

Similar to…

Ezekial 18:24

**24"But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die. **

God Bless,
Michael

 

[sandusky]

**In the context of LK 12:42-48

The Same set of circumstances.

Two different attitudes.

Two different responses.

Two different outcomes.**

Clearly Christ has in mind two different types of servants.

One wicked, and the other faithful, sensible and blessed.

 

[jmcrae]

**In the context of LK 12:42-48

The Same set of circumstances.

**Two different attitudes.

Two different responses.

Two different outcomes.

Clearly Christ has in mind two different types of servants.

One wicked, and the other faithful, sensible and blessed.

No matter how many times you repeat this, you’re still wrong. There is only one servant. He has two choices. His outcome is dependant upon his behaviour. His behaviour is what determines his character.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

No matter how many times you repeat this, you’re still wrong. There is only one servant. He has two choices. His outcome is dependant upon his behaviour. His behaviour is what determines his character.

He’s run out of responses, clearly.

Perhaps we are making some progress.

 

[mikeledes]

**In the context of LK 12:42-48

The Same set of circumstances.

**Two different attitudes.

Two different responses.

Two different outcomes.

Clearly Christ has in mind two different types of servants.

One wicked, and the other faithful, sensible and blessed.

One faithful servant, two potential ends.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[sandusky]

No matter how many times you repeat this, you’re still wrong. There is only one servant. He has two choices. His outcome is dependant upon his behaviour. His behaviour is what determines his character.

**In the context of LK 12:42-48

The Same set of circumstances.

Two different attitudes.

Two different responses.

Two different outcomes.**

Clearly Christ has in mind two different types of servants.

One wicked, and the other faithful, sensible and blessed.

It’s a parable; a didactic teaching, not a dogmatic teaching.

 

[sandusky]

He’s run out of responses, clearly.

Perhaps we are making some progress.

**In the context of LK 12:42-48

The Same set of circumstances.

Two different attitudes.

Two different responses.

Two different outcomes.**

Clearly Christ has in mind two different types of servants.

One wicked, and the other faithful, sensible and blessed.

A didactic teaching, not a dogmatic teaching. A parable

 

[mikeledes]

No matter how many times you repeat this, you’re still wrong. There is only one servant. He has two choices. His outcome is dependant upon his behaviour. His behaviour is what determines his character.

It is clear that he is faithful prior to being assigned his position and that is made clear by the grammar:

**42And the Lord said, Who then is the faithful and sensible steward, whom his master will put in charge of his servants, to give them their rations at the proper time? **

The person put in charge of the servants is already faithful and sensible when given that function as indicated by the future tense “will put”, not a past tense “has put.” He either continues in faithfulness after being given this fuction and rewarded or he turns away from this faithfulness and abuses his authority.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

**In the context of LK 12:42-48

The Same set of circumstances.

**Two different attitudes.

Two different responses.

Two different outcomes.

Clearly Christ has in mind two different types of servants.

One wicked, and the other faithful, sensible and blessed.

A didactic teaching, not a dogmatic teaching. A parable

Matthew 18:23-34

23"For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves.
24"When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him [c]ten thousand talents was brought to him.
25"But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made.
26"So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.’
27"And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt.
28"But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred [d]denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe.’
29"So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you.’
30"But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed.
31"So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened.
32"Then summoning him, his lord said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.
33’Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’
34"And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.

One forgiven servant described as wicked.

In the other parable, one faithful servant who either remains faithful or becomes wicked.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[sandusky]

Matthew 18:23-34

23"For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves.
24"When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him [c]ten thousand talents was brought to him.
25"But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made.
26"So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.’
27"And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt.
28"But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred [d]denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe.’
29"So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you.’
30"But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed.
31"So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened.
32"Then summoning him, his lord said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.
33’Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’
34"And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.

One forgiven servant described as wicked.

In the other parable, one faithful servant who either remains faithful or becomes wicked.

God Bless,
Michael

That point of that parable is forgiveness.

The believer is to forgive much, as he has been forgiven much.