Identifying and Responding to Imposter Catholics

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If I die in a state of mortal sin, the indelible mark of my baptism, confirmation, these sacraments remains on my soul.

There is nothing that removes the mark of baptism.
 
Judge for yourselves which is what the Scripture you are referencing says, not as a public statement for all to share with you.

There is the difference
 
Such a person makes himself look like a hypocrite to publicly go against the teachings of his Church, and perhaps makes all Catholics look foolish and hypocritical. We need to call out people who are openly and publicly
Thank God, I am a nobody so people don’t point out my sins in the media. Catholics fail, it is the the beauty of the faith that we are not required to be impeccable.

Perhaps you have obtained perfection. That is possible in the Christian Life. It is a beautiful thing for you!! Most of us are still on that journey. Our failings, our sins, do not make us hypocrites, they just mean we are not yet to your level of perfection. Pray for us!!
 
No, sadly, I have not achieved anything like perfection.
Do you see how a Catholic who supports behavior that is anti-catholic is problematic? Can you imagine how powerful it would be if Biden, Pepsi, etc were to say “abortion is a moral wrong. It kills innocents in their mother’s wombs”. Or, “my faith teaches me that marriage is between one man and one woman, and I see the value of maintaining that as a public good”.
Plenty of conservative Catholics do. And Supreme Court justices too, thank Almighty God.
 
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Trump sternly supported some abortions
Yes, he did, past tense. Even if he is still in favor of some in certain instances, that’s still far, far better than Biden, who does not seek to impose any limit on abortion whatsoever.
he aggressively supported the death penalty
The death penalty is a matter of prudential judgment. He is allowed to support it, as are Catholics. (And yes, I am aware of Pope Francis’ position and teaching on this. That does not change the historic, dogmatic teaching of the Church, that governments have a right to exercise the death penalty if the situation requires it.)
imposed brutal policies on the immigrant
No, he didn’t. He lessened the brutality of Obama’s policies. Trump’s position is that you should come here legally, and we’ll let you in if there is merit in doing so.
If we are consistent in our logic, we would have imposter Catholics in this group, too.
There probably are imposter Catholics in the Trump supporting group, but not for any of the reasons you listed.
 
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Yes, he did, past tense
I’m sorry, but that is not true. Trump supports abortion in cases of rape, incest and mothers health. He has been adamant is his support for these exceptions… and continues to be.
he death penalty is a matter of prudential judgment.
It’s not just Pope Francis… The Church insists on a very narrow road for use of the death penalty. If you look in to it, you will see that the Trump administration has been very aggressive in pursuing the death penalty for cases outside of that narrow rode… which is an anti-life policy.

Ultimately, I’m not going to be so bold as to call someone an imposter Catholic, but there is a clear double standard at play on life issues.
 
Well Trump isn’t Catholic right? We can evaluate and make judgements about his positions but we don’t really have to worry about how his positions are representing the Church in a public way, right?
 
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A wise priest once talked to me about looking at the failings of others as looking at autumn trees.

The leaves die, and they slowly fall away. Late in the winter, there are some dead leaves clinging tightly to the branches here and there.

It is not my job to go around yanking those leaves off the late winter trees. It is my job to trust in plan for the trees.

At some point, the new life buds not only filling the empty branches, but, pushing out those lingering old leaves.

It is not my job to point at my brother, it is my job to make sure my spiritual life is growing and to be gentle with both my and his leaves.
 
If we ever had a Pope who said such a thing, I wouldn’t be posting on CAF anymore, because I would die of sheer joy. “Been nice knowing y’all, vade in pacem, be well.”
 
If I die in a state of mortal sin, the indelible mark of my baptism, confirmation, these sacraments remains on my soul.

There is nothing that removes the mark of baptism.
The mark or sign of faith may be lost through sin, yet the character is not lost, just as explained in the Catechism below. Original sin is removed with baptism, for example.
1272 Incorporated into Christ by Baptism, the person baptized is configured to Christ. Baptism seals the Christian with the indelible spiritual mark (character) of his belonging to Christ. No sin can erase this mark, even if sin prevents Baptism from bearing the fruits of salvation.82 Given once for all, Baptism cannot be repeated.
 
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When you have a person who has made their whole career in politics, it’s a slippery slope because they lose not only their job, the perks, their whole career and life that they are used to, but also they lose the ability to do whatever good things they thought they would be able to accomplish. We should pray a lot for these people because most of them are not strong enough to stand up and tell the rest of the political world where to go. Truman was because he was used to being an unpopular failure and he was very strong internally and had come to politics sort of late. Trump was, to some extent, because he wasn’t a politician and has little to lose by saying things that no one else would dare. It’s different when a person’s lifelong job is politics. They dont really know how to do anything else. They find compromises they can live with.
You make an excellent case for elevating as many leaders as we can, from outside the sphere of politics, who have nothing to lose by speaking the truth, and when their time is done, can return to the field, the ox, and the plow as Cincinnatus did.

Jimmy Carter would be about the best modern example. An ex-president who shops at Dollar General and dines informally with hometown friends using disposable plates, is a man after my own heart.
 
A wise priest once talked to me about looking at the failings of others as looking at autumn trees.

The leaves die, and they slowly fall away. Late in the winter, there are some dead leaves clinging tightly to the branches here and there.

It is not my job to go around yanking those leaves off the late winter trees. It is my job to trust in plan for the trees.

At some point, the new life buds not only filling the empty branches, but, pushing out those lingering old leaves.

It is not my job to point at my brother, it is my job to make sure my spiritual life is growing and to be gentle with both my and his leaves.
I think that’s fine for people who aren’t running around in public life proclaiming themselves Catholic and doing things like performing same sex marriages.
I am certainly a sinner. I have bad habits, bad thoughts, bad judgments, etc. I don’t run around saying “I’m Catholic, look at me performing a same sex marriage!” “I’m Catholic, vote for me! Look at me, abortion is sacred ground!”

Not to mention Biden promising to enact the Equality Act, which is not good for Catholic institutions.
 
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I thought we are supposed to hate dollar general 🤣
And why is this?

Unless I’m confusing them with another company, I believe they are (or were at one time, may still be) featured in one of these “ethical Christian investing” portfolios that believers seek out, to keep from profiting from immoral enterprises. (This said, we live in an imperfect world, and no investment mix is ever going to be entirely “pure” and sanitary.)
 
I think some people are concerned about them because they drive out any local remaining mom-n-pop retail.
Some things can’t be helped, and stores like Dollar General and Walmart have vastly improved the lifestyles and standards of living of millions of Americans. Economies of scale are a juggernaut against which those who don’t share those economies of scale can’t compete.

The business model of IGA or Best Western hotels might be something to consider — independent businesses that derive volume discounts, vast varieties of merchandise, or support services (branding, franchising, reservations, etc.) from parent organizations, while retaining their independence to a great extent. Perhaps this could be replicated in community-based retail.

I would say that, at this point, we are veering onto the rumble strips of “off-topic”, which doesn’t bother me, but there are some people on CAF who have an issue with it (and do not hesitate to flag for it), so I’ll bow out now. Thanks for a good discussion.

When I get rich and famous, I might start my very own Catholic forum, same concept as CAF, only with topics free to go wherever they will. But now’s not the time.
 
Not to mention Biden promising to enact the Equality Act, which is not good for Catholic institutions.
The good news, the Equality Act applies to public authorities and public sector, not to private Catholic institutions.

As for the other claims, I have not seen Mr Biden make the claims of:
“I’m Catholic, look at me performing a same sex marriage!” “I’m Catholic, vote for me! Look at me, abortion is sacred ground!”
I think that’s fine for people who aren’t running around in public life proclaiming themselves Catholic and doing things like performing same sex marriages.
Last election I was very loudly encouraged not to hold Mr. Trump’s past public life and public sins against him. I think that holds true for our fellow Catholics.
 
I’m sorry, but that is not true. Trump supports abortion in cases of rape, incest and mothers health. He has been adamant is his support for these exceptions… and continues to be.
Hence the second half of that rebuttal, which said that even if Trump does support those things, he’s still better than Biden, who supports no limits whatsoever. Lesser of two evils given the lack of a truly pro-life third option.
It’s not just Pope Francis… The Church insists on a very narrow road for use of the death penalty. If you look in to it, you will see that the Trump administration has been very aggressive in pursuing the death penalty for cases outside of that narrow rode… which is an anti-life policy.
I’m not familiar with Trump’s administration pursuing capital punishment in any cases. Not saying they don’t exist, I’m simply unaware of them.
Ultimately, I’m not going to be so bold as to call someone an imposter Catholic, but there is a clear double standard at play on life issues.
No, there isn’t. The two issues are not even remotely comparable. Abortion kills an innocent child in the womb. Capital punishments kills a presumably-guilty individual who has commit a crime grave enough to warrant a death sentence.

Have capital punishment rulings been handed out unjustly? Sure, I’d never claim otherwise. And it’s certainly been applied in situation where it was unjust. The point of the matter is that it can be applied justly and morally. Abortion can never be moral or just. The two things aren’t even in the same galaxy, let alone he same ballpark.
 
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No, there isn’t. The two issues are not even remotely comparable. Abortion kills an innocent child in the womb. Capital punishments kills a presumably-guilty individual who has commit a crime grave enough to warrant a death sentence.
To be clear, I’m not make an moral equivalence between abortion and capital punishment.

I readily admit that Trump was less bad than Biden on abortion… but both are bad.

I mentioned capital punishment as another important life issue… and there are others issues that need weighed by an informed conscience
 
When it comes to judging my fellow Catholics, that big old plank in my own eye keeps me from seeing the speck in theirs.
But you were just suggesting that people did things out of a desire for moral superiority, so I think there is some middle ground as long as it done with good will and tact.
 
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