If God became man

[adrift]

. But the doctrines were emerged after disciples and later for some centuries. That suggest that somebody might misinterpreted Gospels. Perhaps that misinterpretation was not by wicked will but by an excessive will and thought.

This is not true. Our doctrines did not emerge centuries later. They do develop meaning that the core teaching is there from the beginning but we come to understand them better. I can’t think of one dogma that was not taught by Jesus to His apostles.

 

[DCNBILL]

Gospels start with Jesus and finish with Jesus as topics and Gospels include Jesus’s words. There are four Gospels so which one was inspired by Holy Spirit? Why did not Holy Spirit revealed only to one man so there would not be so conflicts and debates? Why there are only issues about Jesus and could not Holy Spirit reveal some things new? There are differences between Gospels so could not Holy Spirit guide men to write one?

I would love to get you in our scripture class. Are you free Tuesday evenings? The wonderful thing about the Gospels is they are different yet the same. They all take the same concept and put it in their own perspective. It would have been a sad outcome if there was only one Gospel, we are lucky to have all 4 of them, each perfect in its own way. By the way debates would happen if there were only one sentence in the New Testament.

Saints wrote what they could remember and hold from Jesus and there are not indications which demonstrate that they were inspired by Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit came and revealed to Muhammad and inspired Him all the facts and trues and that is the exact what Jesus had pointed out.

I am missing your point here, sorry.

So should we believe in only Church either is true and false? But Church is consisted of men and men could make mistake very easily. There are no obvious evidences if Holy Spirit guide men in Church. That men made very mistakes in history!

Of course men make mistakes and despite everything that they did the Church stands this is the evidence of the Holy Spirit guiding the Church.

Repentance of sins is enough for God to forgive. If human did some wrongs so human should heal that in anyway. The sin or error of human is a kind of act which human can do and it is not a divine act which human cannot do. So there is no a divine error which should be corrected by divine nature. The human nature did wrong so human nature will correct.

You should understand that every sin that you commit is in front of God for eternity because God is eternal. How could so much sin from every person who has ever lived and sinned in front of God for eternity ever be atoned for except by the Divine?

Adam was a prophet and God forgave Him for sake of His repentance. If God forgave Adam so there is no a sin which should be inherited.

Adam was the first man, not considered a prophet. His sin was remitted when Christ died for him on the Cross.

If God made the Son God sacrificed so God killed Himself. Yes that is a silly notion!

Thanks for your agreement.

As I meant there is no a divine sin which man could not correct.

God can not sin.

All human except prophets commit sins so should God sacrifice Himself because of our wrongs? No.

Yes

Jesus and Mary were the only two people who never sinned

But we should pay because we commit. The way is the repentance. Everyone can do that and repent for sins direct to God.

Christ has made the payment for our sins, on the Cross. We should be sorry for our sins this is true but there is nothing we can do for ourselves to atone for our sins, only God can do this.

If you go and strike your father. Do you have the ability for him to forgive you? No, all you can do is ask for forgiveness. It is you Father who has to do the forgiving not you.

Even there is no require to go Church for sins but everyone can ask from God for forgiving directly from God. Church is a holy place so when someone go Church so he should repent for sins directly from god but he should not have to intervene a priest.

If you ask God to forgive your sins how do you know they are forgiven? When I go to Confession and ask the priest who stands in the person of Christ to forgive my sins and he says the prayer of absolution, I know that my sins are forgiven.

 

[hasantas]

Genesis 1:31

God made Adam perfect without sin and in His grace. When Adam sinned he lost this perfection and his will became week.

In your opinion, it is not true. It God had made Adam weak he would not have been perfect. But God said that He looked at everything He made and it was good. It would not be good if not perfect.

Everything which God did/doing is perfect. Adam was/is a perfect act and art of God as creating. The universe was created in perfect. But also God gave Adam the free will. By that free will Adam did not do perfect. So God did not make wrong but human make wrong by free will and desires. If human decide to do good acts/deeds God will create perfect acts but human is free to decide right or evil. The decision of Adam to eat the banned fruit is not belong to God. The free will and destiny are another complicated issue.

If God had wished human to do allways the true then God would create human like a robot or machine. But human has soul, mind, desire, will etc.

The disobeying of Adam related to Adam himself but do not change and effect any laws of God. Nobody can harm God by disobeying but harm himself.

 

[hasantas]

=adrift;13164912]You seem to contradict yourself here. It is of no importance because you are wrong. Adam sinned where does it say that God forgave him? Even so Adam could not make up for his sin being human it was not in his power to atone for His sin.
Definition of prophet

The first mention of a prophet is in Genesis 20:7

You may believe that Adam fits this definition I do not. Adam was not a prophet

There is no direct statement in Qur’an which say Adam was a prophet but there are remarks.

33-Indeed, Allah chose Adam and Noah and the family of Abraham and the family of 'Imran over the worlds -

34-Descendants, some of them from others. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing. Al-Imran(3):33-34

In these verse the name of Adam is mentioned into names of prophets.

Also Prophet Muhammad mentioned that Adam was a prophet.

It is mentioned in Qur’an that God had forgiven Adam:

120-Then Satan whispered to him; he said, “O Adam, shall I direct you to the tree of eternity and possession that will not deteriorate?”

121-And Adam and his wife ate of it, and their private parts became apparent to them, and they began to fasten over themselves from the leaves of Paradise. And Adam disobeyed his Lord and erred.

122-Then his Lord chose him and turned to him in forgiveness and guided [him]. Ta-ha(20)

Perhaps Adam could not make up sin but the Grace and Mercy of his God could.

36-But Satan caused them to slip out of it and removed them from that [condition] in which they had been. And We said, “Go down, [all of you], as enemies to one another, and you will have upon the earth a place of settlement and provision for a time.”

37-Then Adam received from his Lord [some] words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful. Al-Baqarah(2)

 

[hasantas]

This is not true. Our doctrines did not emerge centuries later. They do develop meaning that the core teaching is there from the beginning but we come to understand them better. I can’t think of one dogma that was not taught by Jesus to His apostles.

There are no any definitive and cetain evidences if first Christians believed that Jesus was God. That was decided in Nicene Council. Even that council was about 3 centuries after Jesus. Yet there are some groups in Christians who do not believe that Jesus is God. If Jesus was God then Jesus would declare that very obviously. But what did He say?

Here:

12:17 So that what was said by Isaiah the prophet might come true,
12:18 See my servant, the man of my selection, my loved one in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my Spirit on him, and he will make my decision clear to the Gentiles. Matthew

24:36 But of that day and hour no one has knowledge, not even the angels in heaven, or the Son, but the Father only. Matthew

5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. John

5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. John

5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. John

etc

There is no any statement that imply as if Jesus had a divine attributes by himself. But all statements of Jeus confirmed that He was sent by Father and He never could do anything miraculous if God did not allow.

 

[adrift]

There are no any definitive and cetain evidences if first Christians believed that Jesus was God.

I could give you many quotes that this is not true but I will let one suffice
John 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

That was decided in Nicene Council. Even that council was about 3 centuries after Jesus. Yet there are some groups in Christians who do not believe that Jesus is God. If Jesus was God then Jesus would declare that very obviously.

Nicene did not just decide that this was true. It came about because there was a heresy that needed to be corrected. It had been taught from the beginning. Nicene just cleared up the traditional teachings.

But what did He say?

We have gone over this ground before and it is deceitful on your part to pretend that it has not. It is a pretense that you post the same thing without acknowledging the answers as if there had been none

But I will recap
This identification of Christ with God is emphatic in this chapter and throughout John. John 1:1 explains, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” In John 11:30 Christ says, “The Father and I are one.” In John 14:28 we are reaching a climax. Jesus is soon to be arrested and crucified. He is reassuring the apostles about himself. Yes, they are going to see him suffer in the flesh and die, but Jesus reminds them there is more to himself than just the human. He and the Father are one. His statement is a reassurance to them, and it should be to you as well.
Originally Posted by DCNBILL View Post
He most certainly did and the Jews wanted to stone Him for it.

The Gospel of John Chapter 10

30 The Father and I are one.”

31 The Jews again picked up rocks to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from my Father. For which of these are you trying to stone me?”

33 The Jews answered him, “We are not stoning you for a good work but for blasphemy. You, a man, are making yourself God.”

Jesus forgave sins. It is pure nonsense to say that He didn’t say the words I forgive your sin when those around Him understood that He was forgiving sins.

John 8:56

Quote:
“Your father Abraham rejoiced as he looked forward to my coming. He saw it and was glad.”
The people said, “You aren’t even fifty years old. How can you say you have seen Abraham?”
Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!”
Exodus 3:13
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? What shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you
Jesus uses the name of God for Himself. They tried to stone Him for it for they understood what you deny that He is God. They worshipped Him. Only God is worshipped.
Mark 14:60–64

Quote:
‘And the high priest arose and came forward and questioned Jesus, saying, “Do you make no answer to what these men are testifying against you?” But he kept silent and made no answer. Again the high priest was questioning him, and saying to him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?” And Jesus said,
“I Am
; and you shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.” And tearing his clothes, the high priest said, “What further need do we have of witnesses? You have heard the blasphemy; how does it seem to you?” And they all condemned him to be deserving of death.’
Blasphemy is claiming to be God. They understood what Jesus said. It is ridiculous to claim they meant Mary as they didn’t regard her anything else than a common Jewish woman.

 

[adrift]

There is no direct statement in Qur’an which say Adam was a prophet but there are remarks.

I don’t accept the Qur’an as being inspired.

Perhaps Adam could not make up sin but the Grace and Mercy of his God could.

Exactly right! Adam could not make up for the sin only God could that is why Jesus could make up for the sin on the cross being both God and man.

 

[hasantas]

=DCNBILL;13166770]

Of course men make mistakes and despite everything that they did the Church stands this is the evidence of the Holy Spirit guiding the Church.

There are no only one kind of Church. The Churchs may have different beliefs which indicate that they are not guided by one person(Holy Spirit). Hinduism stands in anyway alike Christianity with temples and beliefs but Hinduism is not guided by Holy Spirit. Judaism stands and Islam stands. Do you accept all these get guided by Holy Spirit?

You should understand that every sin that you commit is in front of God for eternity because God is eternal. How could so much sin from every person who has ever lived and sinned in front of God for eternity ever be atoned for except by the Divine?

The knowledge of everything is in eternal wisdom of God. But that knowledge has no external entity but an entity in eternal wisdom as moraly. When God create that then that knowledge is to have an eexternal entity. So God has eternal knowledge of sins but sins have no external eternal entity which human cannot atone. Human do not commit eternal sins but God has eternal knowledge of sins. Those are distinct.

Adam was the first man, not considered a prophet. His sin was remitted when Christ died for him on the Cross.

From where do you get that if Christ died for Adam’s sin? Indeed Christ had not died but was ascended!

Thanks for your agreement.

You did not understand me. You say God or Son decided to be sacrifice. That mean God himself decided to be sacrificed. And that mean God decided to kill Himself by hands of human! First human cannot kill a god. Second I have never heard of a mortal god. God is eternal in anyway. The soul of Jesus was not essence of God because essence of God is eternal and do not settle in matter and time.

 

[adrift]

There are no only one kind of Church.

If you are saying here that there is more than one Church, then we must define what we mean by Church. Jesus founded His Church on Peter “upon this rock I will build My Church” It is the will of God that all belong to this Church. Many are joined imperfectly in that they have been baptized but not as a Catholic either by blood or desire and that they wish to do God’s will therefore, there is only one Church.

The Churchs may have different beliefs which indicate that they are not guided by one person(Holy Spirit). Hinduism stands in anyway alike Christianity with temples and beliefs but Hinduism is not guided by Holy Spirit. Judaism stands and Islam stands. Do you accept all these get guided by Holy Spirit?

See above.

The knowledge of everything is in eternal wisdom of God. But that knowledge has no external entity but an entity in eternal wisdom as moraly. When God create that then that knowledge is to have an eexternal entity. So God has eternal knowledge of sins but sins have no external eternal entity which human cannot atone. Human do not commit eternal sins but God has eternal knowledge of sins. Those are distinct.

If this was true, and I am not completely sure I understand what you are trying to state, than there would be no hell.

From where do you get that if Christ died for Adam’s sin? Indeed Christ had not died but was ascended!

Jesus was crucified. It is impossible that He did not die. The Bible is all about the coming of Jesus to redeem us from our sins.

2 Corinthians 5:21

For our sake He made Him to be sin who did not know sin, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him

You did not understand me. You say God or Son decided to be sacrifice. That mean God himself decided to be sacrificed. And that mean God decided to kill Himself by hands of human! First human cannot kill a god. Second I have never heard of a mortal god. God is eternal in anyway. The soul of Jesus was not essence of God because essence of God is eternal and do not settle in matter and time.

If you are going to present our belief, you should understand what we believe. Jesus is both God and man. He died as a human so you first is meaningless as is your second.

 

[hasantas]

=adrift;13173379]If you are saying here that there is more than one Church, then we must define what we mean by Church. Jesus founded His Church on Peter “upon this rock I will build My Church” It is the will of God that all belong to this Church. Many are joined imperfectly in that they have been baptized but not as a Catholic either by blood or desire and that they wish to do God’s will therefore, there is only one Church.

See above.

There have been allways different beliefs in Christianity(in Church) about nature of Jesus. After Nicaea Council by support of Constantine I the doctrine of Trinity was imposed and dictated. There was not a holy guidance by Holy Spirit but there was brutal repressions on different beliefs.

If this was true, and I am not completely sure I understand what you are trying to state, than there would be no hell.

There have been allways infidelity and the Hell is for them for first. Ofcourse some sinful believers could go Hell because they have so much sins and do not forswear. But these sinful believers may have a salvation through repentance. For salvation the faith, good deeds and repentance could be enough. Sins are not eternal/have not eternal entity which human would cannot forswear. And Mercy and Grace of God are enough to forgive sins.

Before Jesus people believed in a prophet and had good deeds and had repentance so they could have a salvation. Their prophet was the way of salvation for them. So Jesus could be the way of life and salvation for Christians but Jesus is not the only way. There have been many adviser and prophet.

 

[hasantas]

adrift;13173379]

Jesus was crucified. It is impossible that He did not die. The Bible is all about the coming of Jesus to redeem us from our sins.

2 Corinthians 5:21

All prophets came to redeem and clear sins of people and that was not just for through Jesus. If someone do not believe in God and prophet and commit very sins and not repent so could that someone have salvation because of Jesus was sacrificed?

If someone believe in Moses or Muhammad or Abraham just any of prophets and do good deeds and do not commit sins. And according to you let’s assume that Jesus was not sacrificed for our sins. Then would that very good man go Hell because of Adam eating the forbidden fruit?

Many prophets were killed and tortured before Jesus and nobody claimed that they redeemed our sins!

Before Jesus people were used to believe in one God through prophets and after Jesus through Muhammad people are used to believe in one God. But after Roman Empire accepted the Christianity then Christianity started to turn away from One God but towards multi Gods! Because Romans were Pagans usually. Christianity revoked Paganism but could not keep itself from Paganism. Christians did draw pictures of Jesus and sculptures in Churchs. And Christians started to ascribe Jesus the divine attributes as Romans were usedt did for their emperors or heros.

So you can interpret the Bible without metaphors and strained interpretations in that way: Jesus was a prophet and merely human as first Christinas were used to believe.

God do not die and do not settle into a body. The essence of God is eternal and out of time and matter. God do not feel more better by settling in body but God could feel everything without settling in time and matter indeed God is beyond of everything. Do you claim that God cannot feel without being man?

Rising deads from death is not difficult for God. God will rise all people from death after the day of reckoning.

Jesus was born/cretaed without a father but Adam was created without a father and mother!

There are many verses which say that Jesus is a man and Father(God) is superior and Jesus could not do anything without Father etc etc.

God before Jesus did not inform anything about the Son God. God allways repeorted that the God is One! And in Qur’an God say that God is one but not three or more.

Christinas say that Holy Spirit come out from Father and Son essence. The fact is that Holy Spirit come from Father because God send The Holy Spirit. And if Holy Spirit were God then there would not be need for journey for God to come. Becuase God can do everything from the out of time and matter.

 

[adrift]

There have been allways different beliefs in Christianity(in Church) about nature of Jesus. After Nicaea Council by support of Constantine I the doctrine of Trinity was imposed and dictated. There was not a holy guidance by Holy Spirit but there was brutal repressions on different beliefs.

EXCUSE YOU! Forum rules state that you should not insult our faith not only is this an insult it is untrue. It is because the Holy Spirit protected the Church that the Trinity was defended. Jesus told His disciples to baptize In the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. In the name of not one but all three, Jesus instructed.

Before Jesus people believed in a prophet and had good deeds and had repentance so they could have a salvation. Their prophet was the way of salvation for them. So Jesus could be the way of life and salvation for Christians but Jesus is not the only way. There have been many adviser and prophet.

None of the prophets ever claimed they could give salvation. Salvation only comes through Jesus. I never heard a Jew say he got salvation through the prophets. You won’t find it in scriptures. You have a misunderstanding largely through your beliefs of what
a prophet is.

 

[fhansen]

There have been allways different beliefs in Christianity(in Church) about nature of Jesus. After Nicaea Council by support of Constantine I the doctrine of Trinity was imposed and dictated. There was not a holy guidance by Holy Spirit but there was brutal repressions on different beliefs.

That’s not even close to the truth; Constantine favored Arianism. But the bishops listened to the Holy Spirit. And the emperor did not interfere.

 

[adrift]

That’s not even close to the truth; Constantine favored Arianism. But the bishops listened to the Holy Spirit. And the emperor did not interfere.

Oh Don’t confuse us with facts.

 

[adrift]

All prophets came to redeem and clear sins of people and that was not just for through Jesus. If someone do not believe in God and prophet and commit very sins and not repent so could that someone have salvation because of Jesus was sacrificed?

If someone believe in Moses or Muhammad or Abraham just any of prophets and do good deeds and do not commit sins. And according to you let’s assume that Jesus was not sacrificed for our sins. Then would that very good man go Hell because of Adam eating the forbidden fruit?

Many prophets were killed and tortured before Jesus and nobody claimed that they redeemed our sins!

Only Jesus came to redeem sin. The prophets could not redeem us. No where in Scripture does it state that they do. You have a grave misunderstanding of what a prophet is.

Before Jesus people were used to believe in one God through prophets and after Jesus through Muhammad people are used to believe in one God. But after Roman Empire accepted the Christianity then Christianity started to turn away from One God but towards multi Gods! Because Romans were Pagans usually. Christianity revoked Paganism but could not keep itself from Paganism. Christians did draw pictures of Jesus and sculptures in Churchs. And Christians started to ascribe Jesus the divine attributes as Romans were usedt did for their emperors or heros.

I don’t believe Muhammad was a prophet. Christians believed at the beginning that Jesus is God or did you forget Thomas saying “my Lord and my God” Clear belief that it was always believed Jesus is God. Read the beginning of John, it is quite clear that John believed in the divinity of Jesus.

The Nicene Creed

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible

So you can interpret the Bible without metaphors and strained interpretations in that way: Jesus was a prophet and merely human as first Christinas were used to believe.

To interpret it this way it is strained and Christians always believed this way. It was only later that heretics sprung up to claim differenty

God do not die and do not settle into a body. The essence of God is eternal and out of time and matter. God do not feel more better by settling in body but God could feel everything without settling in time and matter indeed God is beyond of everything. Do you claim that God cannot feel without being man?

It is a straw man question. God is so far beyond us. We only know what He has chosen to reveal. Yet you try to say you know it all.

Rising deads from death is not difficult for God. God will rise all people from death after the day of reckoning.

Jesus was born/cretaed without a father but Adam was created without a father and mother!

There are many verses which say that Jesus is a man and Father(God) is superior and Jesus could not do anything without Father etc etc.

God before Jesus did not inform anything about the Son God. God allways repeorted that the God is One! And in Qur’an God say that God is one but not three or more.

Christinas say that Holy Spirit come out from Father and Son essence. The fact is that Holy Spirit come from Father because God send The Holy Spirit. And if Holy Spirit were God then there would not be need for journey for God to come. Becuase God can do everything from the out of time and matter.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

Note Jesus is consubstantial with the Father. I hope that clears up your confusion.

 

[adrift]

Before Jesus people were used to believe in one God through prophets and after Jesus through Muhammad people are used to believe in one God. But after Roman Empire accepted the Christianity then Christianity started to turn away from One God but towards multi Gods! Because Romans were Pagans usually. Christianity revoked Paganism but could not keep itself from Paganism. Christians did draw pictures of Jesus and sculptures in Churchs. And Christians started to ascribe Jesus the divine attributes as Romans were usedt did for their emperors or heros.

.

I want to address this again.

You have created a straw man here.
Christianity did not turn away from the One God
Christianity does not believe in multiple gods
You are being insulting to misrepresent our beliefs.
I have already provided from Scripture that the Apostles knew Jesus is God.
The only way you can know about God is His own revelation. He began this revelation to the Jews, furthered it in His Church. He left His Church to guide us. Jesus warned that there would be false prophets.

Matthew 7:15
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves”

).

 

[hasantas]

That’s not even close to the truth; Constantine favored Arianism. But the bishops listened to the Holy Spirit. And the emperor did not interfere.

Sorry the sentence should be like that: After Nicaea Council which was supported by Constantine I the doctrine of Trinity was imposed and dictated. Because the Church excommunicated the opposers.

 

[hasantas]

=adrift;13186994]

I don’t accept the Qur’an as being inspired. (in #246)

Forum rules state that you should not insult our faith not only is this an insult it is untrue. (in #251)

You are being insulting to misrepresent our beliefs. (in #255)

I don’t insult your beliefs. I accept most of you and try to illustrate the wrong parts with comments and evidences. But you insult me by rejecting me totaly. To say that Muhammad is not prophet or Qur’an is not revelation from God is the biggest insulting. And you do and repeat that without any evidence. A little fairness please!

 

[adrift]

I don’t insult your beliefs. I accept most of you and try to illustrate the wrong parts with comments and evidences. But you insult me by rejecting me totaly. To say that Muhammad is not prophet or Qur’an is not revelation from God is the biggest insulting. And you do and repeat that without any evidence. A little fairness please!

Really? You do not provide proof of anything and when you are shown you are wrong do you admit it? No you post the most ridiculous things. For instance, the son of the Blessed refers to Mary because Jesus had no father. When it is pointed out to you that they believed Joseph was Jesus’ father what do you do? Repeat the same nonsense as if it had not been pointed out to you that it was nonsense.
What evidence is there that Muhammad was a prophet? None. Nor is there any evidence that God reveled anything to him. You consider that insulting yet when you post that we worship more than one God that is not insulting and you talk about fairness? It is an insult to reject you but it is perfectly alright for you to reject what I tell you? You consider yourself fair?
You make claims that Jesus did not say He is God and yet when we show you that is not true you continue to make the claim over and over again without acknowledging that we have told you different. You have no evidence to the contrary. What you have answered has been refuted. Yet you do not acknowledge that and you write that YOU have been insulted because I don’t accept your belief not that I have disparage your belief as you have ours. No it is not a disparage of your belief to say I don’t believe in it. Shame on you! You use words as “imposed and dictated” this is not presenting facts but a conclusion a mere opinion of what you say happened. If you weren’t insulting you would have correctly stated just the facts without your warped conclusion and opinion. What you fail to acknowledge and therefore adds to the insult is that it was Christian belief from the beginning of the Trinity. You state it wasn’t without proof, and ignored the proof of the Trinity in Scripture.

 

[hasantas]

=adrift;13187561]Really? You do not provide proof of anything and when you are shown you are wrong do you admit it? No you post the most ridiculous things. For instance, the son of the Blessed refers to Mary because Jesus had no father. When it is pointed out to you that they believed Joseph was Jesus’ father what do you do? Repeat the same nonsense as if it had not been pointed out to you that it was nonsense.

I think it is because of poor English. Yes they might thought that Jesus’s father was Joseph and they did not think that Mary was blessed and pure. So they accused Jesus to be Son of Blessed One. They did not admit that Jesus’s birn was through a miracle without a father. So they accused Jesus to claim such thing. Now which is more close to fact? Jesus did not say that He was an incarnated god but the son of blessed one. Because some people shamed His mother to commit such thing when Jesus was born. They did not think that the birth of Jesus was through a miracle. And there have been allways doubts on birth of Jesus for unbelievers. Otherwise there was no a claim by Jesus to be incarnated through a woman.

And I consider your comments and evidences very carefully. But you have not certain evidences. You say just such things: Jesus said your sins are forgiven to someone. So Jesus must be God because only God could forgive sins. But Jesus did not say directly I forgave sins! And Jesus said that Father had given all authority and power to Him. So that claim is very weak to consider.

Or you say Paul(?) said O My God or My Lord. As I know Christians or beleivers use that words very usually. For instance when someone see an amazing case so he say O My God! Paul was amazed to see Jesus so he said that words.

Or Jesus said I AM and I AM is one of name for God. I AM should be one of name for God because in Qur’an Allah named Himself in that way.

11-And when he came to it, he was called, "O Moses,

12-Indeed, I am your Lord, so remove your sandals. Indeed, you are in the sacred valley of Tuwa.

But everybody could himself I am. So that is not a certain evidence.

etc.