If God is not The Trinity, when what did He mean...

  • Thread starter Thread starter 2ndGen
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
FaithofAbraham said:
Why are you using Muslim terms like “shirk” since even that varies from sect to sect? In plain English, nothing prevents God from using angels to do anything He tells them to. If God says jump they jump, if God says they can create they can create. Why are you questioning God’s power and authority just to try to prove your point?

Seems counterproductive to me.
Click to expand...
Because in the thread “St. Paul and Islam” you do not believe that God can make his word become human and such human maintain the status of the Word of God. It seems to me that you believe that the Word of God once became human was always be human. There is a difference of (a) God talks to a human and order such human to convey his words to other human and (b) God made His Words to become human, and such Human talks to other human just like God talks to humans Himself. It is just you don’t see the difference. Now in this thread you believe the infinite power of God.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Yes, we have the evil inclination due to Satan.
Click to expand...
Dear FoA,

I am sorry to repeat your answer. Do you answer “Yes” to the question asked by 2ndGen? Inclination has many meaning, can you be more specific?

Where in the bible or in Quran it is so. That is new to me, and very interesting that you believe so.

We believe that at the time of human creation, Satan did not interfere at all. At a later time sequence, Satan made human to do sins.
 
I hope this has not already been addressed, however:

“Then God said, let us make man in our image” (Genesis 1:26)

God says us to indicate that he is speaking to someone else. Now as we know God is the only one who created man, no one else did. So why would he ask someone else to participate in creation. The use of image at the end of the passage is singular, and as God only has one image this would indicate that he must be speaking to someone else who is himself. The Holy Trinity is the only example of how this works.
 
holdencaulfield said:
I hope this has not already been addressed, however:

“Then God said, let us make man in our image” (Genesis 1:26)

God says us to indicate that he is speaking to someone else. Now as we know God is the only one who created man, no one else did. So why would he ask someone else to participate in creation. The use of image at the end of the passage is singular, and as God only has one image this would indicate that he must be speaking to someone else who is himself. The Holy Trinity is the only example of how this works.
Click to expand...
Yes, indeed. The word “us” does not mean satan was included, and definitely does not mean “United States”. (Just joking…)
 
swariffin said:
Yes, indeed. The word “us” does not mean satan was included, and definitely does not mean “United States”. (Just joking…)
Click to expand...
Exactly and we know that Satan was not created until the angels were created. We know this because Satan is a fallen angel.

“And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home–these he has kept in darkness” (Jude 6)
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Yes, we have the evil inclination due to Satan.
Click to expand...
That’s not what I asked…I asked if Satan helped create us too.

So is your answer still yes?

Or is it no?

MY question had nothing to do with evil or good, but with the creation of man.
 
2ndGen said:
That’s not what I asked…I asked if Satan helped create us too.

So is your answer still yes?

Or is it no?

MY question had nothing to do with evil or good, but with the creation of man.
Click to expand...
If one said that Satan created men than that would mean that God was evil. Regardless of what religion you are I think that this would be considered blasphemy. Am I wrong?
 
holdencaulfield said:
If one said that Satan created men than that would mean that God was evil. Regardless of what religion you are I think that this would be considered blasphemy. Am I wrong?
Click to expand...
Sounds like blasphemy to me.

According to him, god (I can’t even capitolize that word there) and Satan are one as are all the angels.

He believes that angels are gods.

Sounds JW’ish to me.
 
2ndGen said:
Sounds like blasphemy to me.

According to him, god (I can’t even capitolize that word there) and Satan are one as are all the angels.

He believes that angels are gods.

Sounds JW’ish to me.
Click to expand...
Dear 2ndGen,

With all my respect to FoA and his what I consider a unique type of Islam, I don’t believe he/she is a JW at all. The JW does not care a single thing about Quran.
 
2ndGen said:
Sounds like blasphemy to me.

According to him, god (I can’t even capitolize that word there) and Satan are one as are all the angels.

He believes that angels are gods.

Sounds JW’ish to me.
Click to expand...
It really does to me as well, but we know that God created the angels.

“To which of the angels did God ever say, Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet? Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?” (Hebrews 1:13-14)

This would show how angels are lower than God. He created them.
 
swariffin said:
Dear FoA,

I am sorry to repeat your answer. Do you answer “Yes” to the question asked by 2ndGen? Inclination has many meaning, can you be more specific?

Where in the bible or in Quran it is so. That is new to me, and very interesting that you believe so.

We believe that at the time of human creation, Satan did not interfere at all. At a later time sequence, Satan made human to do sins.
Click to expand...
Only in the sense of creating our sinful natures.
 
2ndGen said:
That’s not what I asked…I asked if Satan helped create us too.

So is your answer still yes?

Or is it no?

MY question had nothing to do with evil or good, but with the creation of man.
Click to expand...
If man is created good and evil then who created evil? God did, but God allowed Satan to create it in us.
 
swariffin said:
Because in the thread “St. Paul and Islam” you do not believe that God can make his word become human and such human maintain the status of the Word of God. It seems to me that you believe that the Word of God once became human was always be human. There is a difference of (a) God talks to a human and order such human to convey his words to other human and (b) God made His Words to become human, and such Human talks to other human just like God talks to humans Himself. It is just you don’t see the difference. Now in this thread you believe the infinite power of God.
Click to expand...
I believe God can turn Himself into a man, I just don’t see the need for God to turn Himself into a man so He can pray to Himself to save Himself – when God is never in danger of dying forever anyway – and to be elevated into position of God which He already had since He was already God.

Hebrews 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

Etc.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Sure, if God is all-knowing, He knew what He was creating and what we would be.
Click to expand...
Dear FoA,

Indeed God knows. Human was created with the freewill (which is the property of God passed to human during the creation). With the freewill also that God expects human to love God in return, not by programmed sets of instructions build in human mind. God knew what would happen to human, but it was not the way of God to order satan not to interfere with human. In order for human to love God, it has to be the choice made by human ourselves (without God’s interference) to love God voluntarily.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Sure, if God is all-knowing, He knew what He was creating and what we would be.
Click to expand...
Dear FoA,

Indeed God knows. Human was created with the freewill (which is the property of God passed to human during the creation). With the freewill also that God expects human to love God in return, not by programmed sets of instructions build in human mind. God knew what would happen to human, but it was not the way of God to order satan not to interfere with human. In order for human to love God, it has to be the choice made by human ourselves (without God’s interference) to love God voluntarily.
 
swariffin said:
Dear FoA,

Indeed God knows. Human was created with the freewill (which is the property of God passed to human during the creation). With the freewill also that God expects human to love God in return, not by programmed sets of instructions build in human mind. God knew what would happen to human, but it was not the way of God to order satan not to interfere with human. In order for human to love God, it has to be the choice made by human ourselves (without God’s interference) to love God voluntarily.
Click to expand...
I’m not so convinced about freewill if we are all predestined to go to Heaven or Hell. Freewill assumes that God as the potter hasn’t made some pots to be kept, some pots to be used as waste containers and thrown out when they are full. It’s a tough concept when dealing with an all-knowing God who knows what your fate is from the start.

But either way I think we are still supposed to act as if we have freewill and choose the right things.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top