If i forgive you, must i make amends with you

[spockrates]

There was no question about the forgiveness. The question was 'After forgiving, is it wrong to say ’ Although i forgive you totally, i dont want a relationship with you anymore. Especially as their sisters. I would suggest from the quote that our Lord is saying. 'If one sins, but repents, then you must go on forgiving, no matter how many times. Thanks Spockrates. Most helpful

Perhaps you are right, Vstead. But the prayer Jesus taught you and I to pray makes me wonder:

Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.

(Matthew 6:12)

If we ask God to forgive us in the same way we forgive others, do we really mean it? I mean, if you or I say we forgive a person, but refuse to have a relationship with her, do we want God to forgive us the same way? Do we want Jesus to say He forgives us but never have a relationship with us in eternity?

 

[NotWorthy]

There is a difference between forgiving someone and enabling them to take advantage of you again.

I mean, God sometimes tells us “NO” even though he loves us. Shouldn’t we do the same for someone if it prevents them from being able to harm us?

 

[Elizabeth502]

True forgiveness, being an aspect of true charity, requires openness if it qualifies as genuine. IOW, I don’t think we should put conditions on forgiveness, alhtough self-protection is an authentic aspect of the virtue of prudence.

Here’s what I mean:

Very recently, I decided to be the one to make the first gesture to someone who had wronged me. I sensed that it was an important gift to her to let her know by my actions that I had forgiven her, even though she has never apologized to me or so much as communicated with me since the incident. I was surprised at how warm and responsive she was. Even though she has not chosen (since then) to continue the relationship or move forward with me, I think it’s incumbent on me to be open to that, should she want to. Otherwise (it seems to me) I am putting conditions on my forgiveness: I am saying, ‘I don’t really think you deserve ever to be trusted again; I assume you’ll keep doing the same thing.’ Now, I would have a right to be cautious about the renewal of the relationship, should warning signs redevelop, but unless I have indications that she would do that again or is still in the same mind-frame, I think that refusing to keep lines of communication open is making a judgment about her spirituality and her capacity for growth/change. I don’t know if she has changed unless I give her the opportunity to show me.

Nevertheless, I have another person in my life (a relative) about whom I have to be much more cautious because of very long pattern (history) of sabotage & cruelty to me and to my family. In that case, my duty is to be outwardly civil and gracious and kind (and inwardly forgiving), but to measure my communication discreetly, not giving her too much information, lest I and my children become further taken advantage of.

I think it’s important to discern: to take it on a case by case basis. There is a difference between someone who is dangerous – who threatens your emotional health or your practical/financial (etc.) circumstances – and someone with whom you have had a significant relationship but may have made one mistake. Sometimes best friends, for example, have two or three major falling-outs in their relationship over a lifetime, but clearly there are healthy ties there that are mutually beneficial.

God speaks to us, and brings us graces and opportunities, as well as emotional growth experiences, through every relationship we have, including those with co-workers, neighbors, etc.

 

[vstead]

Since asking the question, this paragraph for me, answers everything

 

[vstead]

After reading this to mum over the phone (shes not online). In her words ’ How did i not see that myself.’ A phone call to aunty Bett is iminent. Thank you thank you.

 

[JRKH]

After reading this to mum over the phone (shes not online). In her words ’ How did i not see that myself.’ A phone call to aunty Bett is iminent. Thank you thank you.

Yes - very interesting.

Peace
James

 

[vstead]

Yes - very interesting.

Peace
James

I hasten to add. As usual, mum forgives and forgets. As she is about to do again.
But maybe as has been said here, a more distant relationship would be better for both and justified

 

[PJM]

=ryecroft;6225065]I have a situation with forgiveness with some family members. Although I will forgive and am asked repeatedly to “try” again, although you can forgive an infinate amount of time, I have never read anywhere in the Bible where God wants you to keep putting yourself in harms way. I hat to say it, but sometimes you have to cut the losses and say “while I have fogriven you, for the time being, I don’t know how I could feel comfortable doing these things with you - I need some time to try to regain the trust I’ve lost…” or something like that. THis way you’re forgiving and not harbouring resentment but also being honest about how you feel. Good Luck and I hope it works out for who you’re talking about.
God Bless
Rye

*I agree with this post, but issue a caution to understand ones own motive for “seperation.”

Is it to protect oneself, protect others, both OR to protect oneself AND HURT another? *

 

[remjsmom76]

Someone once told me Forgivness is not for the other person, its for you and your own soul. You can forgive someone for what they did to you, but if they are toxic to you (or even dangerous) and your life, there is no need to continue on with that relationship.

Ex. My MIL is very toxic. Poor thing might have mental issues. I tried as best I could to make her understand that I didnt “steal” or “seduce” her son into marrying me. She said I did voodoo on him, and she also suggested once that our oldest daughter was not his child. If you see my oldest she looks EXACTLY like my MIL!!! For years I tried, but I had always said my first priority are our girls. She started to “treat” our girls bad. When my oldest was 3 or 4, she went up to a rather large woman and say “YOUR FAT!” I mean, shes a kid and we did tell her that was wrong. We had been talking about it and my MIL told my daughter “YOU HAVE ISSUES…WHATS WRONG WITH YOU!” My daughter was only 3 or 4 at the time. So thats when I said enough is enough. We dont see my MIL regularly but when we do, I am ALWAYS there or my husband to protect our girls from her problem.

 

[spockrates]

Since asking the question, this paragraph for me, answers everything

Well, I’m just asking questions, really, Vstead. Haven’t come to any conclusions, yet. But tell me, please, what answer did you have for my question? Do you think forgiveness is just an emotion, or is it more?

 

[spockrates]

After reading this to mum over the phone (shes not online). In her words ’ How did i not see that myself.’ A phone call to aunty Bett is iminent. Thank you thank you.

Glad to help. It sounds like mum is thinking of making up with aunt B. Is that what she decided to do?

 

[vstead]

Well, I’m just asking questions, really, Vstead. Haven’t come to any conclusions, yet. But tell me, please, what answer did you have for my question? Do you think forgiveness is just an emotion, or is it more?

Im sorry Spockrates. I read it as a quote rather than a question. Its late here in the UK (00.45) I had to think about this. Ive never had a confrontation of any kind. My honest answer ( at the moment is ) i dont know. In my mums case with her sister, thats easy. It has to be more than an emotion. I believe they have a duty to each other and to extended family. I suppose the question has to depend on the relationship between the parties involved. If its someone you are unlikely to see again, well i imagine just forgiving them would suffice. But as a wife, husband, sister, brother in law, friend, then actions would probably be required.

 

[MargaretLFY]

Misamoresjjg - It doesn’t sound like you or your husband are living a healthy marriage in this situation. I saw my Mother go through a similar situation and the good friend ended up being my father’s mistress for years.

I’d suggest you get to some marriage counseling on your own. You might need to separate if this is a mental harassment by your husband. Although, you might have gotten past the guilt and got right with God these last 10 years this is fresh for your husband for him it’s a year old. From what you write I’d say he also has a lot of personal growth to go through if an “eye for an eye” is how he treats your sins.

You’ve lost a lot, a friend and a husband that you trusted. The most important thing is to not lose yourself and the marriage and the only way I think that can be done is through your relationship with God and counseling so you can continue to grow and then reach back and help your husband if he can be made aware of what he’s loosing. My father didn’t get it until after my Mother died and they were divorced but friendly for several years. He never did get over his part in their break up. It was on his lips before he died about how sorry he was but of course it was too late.

With your relationship with God if you continue to understand your need to communicate with him and be charitable but not a door mat to your husband you can recover. But, your husband is acting out and not acting sensibly and actually is setting himself up to loose a lot more than you such as self-respect and his soul?

If you want to help him you need, in my opinion to seek counseling and see how you can help him. Go alone if necessary. Once he see’s that you are trying he might be willing to join you.

You also need to keep yourself safe mentally. He must be tempted by this woman still and he’s playing with dynamite apparently not speaking to you well and not creating a secure marriage. If it’s abusive you need to get him or you out get safe and then get counseling to find a road map hopefully back to each other but never away from God. He needs to find God to…I’d start by calling my parish office and ask if they know of any good Catholic marriage counselors then call the diocese if they have no suggestions.

I’m sorry for your pain and I know through trusting in God you can find your way to peace.

 

[ryecroft]

*I agree with this post, but issue a caution to understand ones own motive for “seperation.”

Is it to protect oneself, protect others, both OR to protect oneself AND HURT another? *

I believe that God does expect us to forgive, but I think He’s aware that as humans it doesn’t follow that we will forget. I believe part of the reason for this is for self protection and for the protection of those you love around you. In this case, I can honestly say that this is not being done to hurt anyone. I’ve gotten to the point where I’m fairly apathetic with regards to this situation - even though there has been no apology for what happened, I’ve prayed about it, forgiven the person and now I’m prepared to move forward. My mom always taught me “once shame on them, twice shame on you…” I’m aware God didn’t teach that saying, but I believe there is wisdom and merrit. I pray God will show me if there is something else that needs to be done. God knows what we’re capable of handling - right now, this is what I’m capablle of.

God Bless
Rye

 

[lordssoldier]

if by “forgive”, you mean asssss flucking,

and “making amends” you mean your mom, i certainly believe in “forgiving” and “making amends”

 

[JZSWASDISBIG]

I’m down for a little forgive and amends if that is how it works… I can be forgiven right?

 

[spockrates]

Im sorry Spockrates. I read it as a quote rather than a question. Its late here in the UK (00.45) I had to think about this. Ive never had a confrontation of any kind. My honest answer ( at the moment is ) i dont know. In my mums case with her sister, thats easy. It has to be more than an emotion. I believe they have a duty to each other and to extended family. I suppose the question has to depend on the relationship between the parties involved. If its someone you are unlikely to see again, well i imagine just forgiving them would suffice. But as a wife, husband, sister, brother in law, friend, then actions would probably be required.

Then I say, “Good for your mum!”



I mean, it seems to me that forgiveness is a kind of love. And Saint John the Apostle tells you, me and your mum, this:

Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.

(1 John 3:18)

To say, “I forgive you,” and not follow it up with true actions, seems to me to not sincerely mean what one says. I suppose the saint would say your mum loved correctly. Wouldn’t you?

 

[spockrates]

There is a difference between forgiving someone and enabling them to take advantage of you again.

I mean, God sometimes tells us “NO” even though he loves us. Shouldn’t we do the same for someone if it prevents them from being able to harm us?

That’s a point and question worthy of consideration, Worthy! When Jesus said this,

“If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, ‘I repent,’ forgive him.”

(Luke 17:3-4)

He could not possibly have meant that we should let people take advantage of us, could He?



I wonder just what He actually did mean. Do you have a guess?

 

[JRKH]

Then I say, “Good for your mum!”



I mean, it seems to me that forgiveness is a kind of love. And Saint John the Apostle tells you, me and your mum, this:

Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.

(1 John 3:18)

To say, “I forgive you,” and not follow it up with true actions, seems to me to not sincerely mean what one says. I suppose the saint would say your mum loved correctly. Wouldn’t you?

I suppose that what is being asked here is what would be the correct action in a given situation. In a situation, like family or work, where the people are likely to see each other, one set of actions might be called for. Some sort of, at least, truce is needed.

In a non-family situation, like friends, another set of of actions might be appropriate. In such a situation more seperation might be appropriate in order to avoid probable damage to your own faith.
The important thing is to, as you point out, make sure the actions are founded in Love. A Love that still wants that other person to attain heaven. A Love that says that you will, by prayer and action, try to help that person attain heaven.

Peace
James

 

[spockrates]

I suppose that what is being asked here is what would be the correct action in a given situation. In a situation, like family or work, where the people are likely to see each other, one set of actions might be called for. Some sort of, at least, truce is needed.

In a non-family situation, like friends, another set of of actions might be appropriate. In such a situation more seperation might be appropriate in order to avoid probable damage to your own faith.
The important thing is to, as you point out, make sure the actions are founded in Love. A Love that still wants that other person to attain heaven. A Love that says that you will, by prayer and action, try to help that person attain heaven.

Peace
James

Perhaps, James. I mean, that sounds reasonable to me. But then, I hear Jesus say:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.”

(Matthew 5:43-45)

And I’m speechless! I mean, love my enemies? How do I accomplish that?



If forgiveness is a kind of love, then do I forgive my enemies? And to what extent do I forgive them? How far must this unreasonable love of those who hate go?



We’re getting in deep, now! But it’s a good deep, I think. It’s diving into the depth of the very essence of God, and such deepness is worthy of trying to grasp.

And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.

(Ephesians 3:17-19)

Don’t you agree?



Deep thoughts worth exploration!