If i forgive you, must i make amends with you

[vstead]

Can you forgive someone for hurting you but decide against renewing that relationship or is true forgiveness about starting again with that person. What if its an ongoing quarrel that keeps repeating itself. Is there a time when you say ‘enough is enough’

 

[JohnMPhilomena]

Can you forgive someone for hurting you but decide against renewing that relationship or is true forgiveness about starting again with that person. What if its an ongoing quarrel that keeps repeating itself. Is there a time when you say ‘enough is enough’

Yes, you can forgive someone, but not want to have the same relationship as you had prior.

My wife’s friend divorced her husband. She forgave him and they have a cordial relationship for the sake of their children. And I believes she loves and cares for him. But it will never be a man and wife relationship again.

If it’s a recurring quarrel, then forgive and move on. You can love and care about your neighbor without having lunch with him every week.

I hope this helps.

John Marie Philomena

 

[NotWorthy]

Yes, there is a difference between forgiving and falling into the same trap.

Remember, God sometimes answers our prayers with “no”. You can tell someone you love, “No”, simply because you don’t want to put yourself in the same trap as before. For instance, if you loan someone money and they waist on beer and never pay you back, you can forgive them. But if they ask for money again and you know that they haven’t changed their ways, you can be showing them an act of love simply by saying “No”.

 

[vstead]

Thanks for the reply. To give a clearer picture. My mum who’s 70 and her sister 72 ( im laughing as im writing this) They have never agreed on anything. Both deeply religious, im bewildered by the continuous quarrelling. Its normally my mum who after confession will always make friends as she feels that without doing this, she couldnt recieve. She now wants to know if she forgives her sister, can she decide not to speak to her but still recieve knowing that the forgiveness is there. I cant imagine she would want to remain estranged from her sister permanently but the stress that it causes both of them isnt good. Before i logged on here, i sent them both a leaflet regarding the Haiti situation so who knows. Thanks again for your time. Victoria

 

[Mark77]

Jesus taught us;

"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself." (Lk 10:27)

Sounds pretty clear to me!

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

 

[JRKH]

Can you forgive someone for hurting you but decide against renewing that relationship or is true forgiveness about starting again with that person. What if its an ongoing quarrel that keeps repeating itself. Is there a time when you say ‘enough is enough’

Lets keep things in perspective.

We must forgive. We also need to be open, in Love, to the other person. That does not mean we necessarily need to be a pushover, for that is not necessarily Love.

Simply weigh your actions against the Law of Love to see what will be teh best path to pursue.

Peace
James

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

Can you forgive someone for hurting you but decide against renewing that relationship or is true forgiveness about starting again with that person. What if its an ongoing quarrel that keeps repeating itself. Is there a time when you say ‘enough is enough’

Yes, you can (and should) forgive someone, and still refuse to continue a relationship with them. I mistakenly thought once that forgiving someone meant being best buddies with them again. A mistake that just about ruined me. When this individual wanted to get back in contact with me (after the second betrayal) I basically told her that while I forgive her for trying to screw up my life, she needed to stay the heck away from me from here on out. This girl really had serious problems.

 

[spockrates]

I think, Vstead, that what you are asking is this: Are there any conditions one must meet before one should be forgiven? It’s a good question, and one I’ve asked myself! Maybe considering Jesus’ words of advice on forgiveness might lead you and me to the answer:

“So watch yourselves. If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, ‘I repent,’ forgive him.”

(Luke 17:3-4)

Do you think our Lord is saying that repentance is a condition one must meet to be completely forgiven?

 

[cheeto1]

Do you think our Lord is saying that repentance is a condition one must meet to be completely forgiven?

Are you suggesting that someone should continually put themselves in harms
way to prove they have forgiven?

 

[NHInsider]

I would also observe that for many siblings, “bickering” is in fact the way they interact. It may be unpleasant, but if they’ve been doing it for 70 years they’re unlikely to learn a new language now. So the question is - which would be sadder, continuing the pattern, or being cut off from each other?

Maybe they can continue their relationship with notes instead of face to face conversations? It’s not impossible to argue in writing, but it reduces the stress and provides the opportunity to edit before sending.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

I would also observe that for many siblings, “bickering” is in fact the way they interact. It may be unpleasant, but if they’ve been doing it for 70 years they’re unlikely to learn a new language now. So the question is - which would be sadder, continuing the pattern, or being cut off from each other?

Maybe they can continue their relationship with notes instead of face to face conversations? It’s not impossible to argue in writing, but it reduces the stress and provides the opportunity to edit before sending.

The thing is, you have to determine if the sin against you was big enough to betray trust. Typical sibling bickering hardly qualifies. There are some cases out there where trust is severely damaged and it is for the greater good that a separation occurs. Things such as spousal abuse, for example. Sure, the one abused may forgive the other but that individual would be foolish to go back to that person if they never change. Or, for example, say the spouse did change. There would have to be a significant effort and change shown to earn back the trust of the one abused so that they would come back.

In my example I had a friend who I went to church with. I got involved with a bad guy, and asked them to pray for me so I could find the courage to break up with this guy. She went and told the ENTIRE church that I was sleeping with him just to assuage her guilt for having sex with her boyfriend. We talked about it, and I forgave her. In college, we reunited and she apologized and formally asked me to forgive her. I decided that we were friends and christians and needed to move on. She ran in to room mate problems and needed a place to live. I set her up to move in with me and my current room mate. Well, we had a bit of a tiff (as room mates usually do) and rather than just letting things go when we talked it out, she started bad mouthing me all around campus. It eventually got back to me (coupled with other nasty things she was doing around the apartment) and I had to move out. I took my kitchen utensils and left. Her rebuttal? She went and told the school I was stealing their stuff (it was mine) and that I was sleeping with my fiance.(same lie, I should have known)The problem is, these were all serious accusations that almost had me expelled from college the last 2 weeks of my senior year. All my debt and hard work would have counted for nothing. I had to set up a meeting with a couple professors and talk to the school disciplinary people to make sure they knew I was chaste (I am happy to say I was a virgin on my wedding night). I made a HUGE mistake trusting her again, and I should have known better. To be honest, I am more mad at myself for letting her back in to my life than if I had helped her find her own place to live away from me.

The truly funny thing is that it came out about a year later that while she was running around accusing me, a man came forward who was dating a 3rd party friend (the friend and this girl had little to NO connection to each other) that he was sleeping with this girl while she was engaged, and then for a month or two after she got married. He confessed it to my friend just as they were getting serious. He was trying to rid himself of the guilt of sleeping with an engaged and married woman.

There are just some cases where trust should NOT be given back, unless significant change is demonstrated, if ever.

 

[peary1]

Can you forgive someone for hurting you but decide against renewing that relationship or is true forgiveness about starting again with that person. What if its an ongoing quarrel that keeps repeating itself. Is there a time when you say ‘enough is enough’

Christ knew that it was important for the sake of relationships to “move on.” This can only occur by forgiveness. As per your remark, I don’t know. If you can forgive and forget and move on (meaning, as you say, ‘enough is enough’) it is better for everyone involved rather than giving energy to an ongoing quarrel.

 

[vstead]

I think, Vstead, that what you are asking is this: Are there any conditions one must meet before one should be forgiven? It’s a good question, and one I’ve asked myself! Maybe considering Jesus’ words of advice on forgiveness might lead you and me to the answer:

“So watch yourselves. If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, ‘I repent,’ forgive him.”

(Luke 17:3-4)

Do you think our Lord is saying that repentance is a condition one must meet to be completely forgiven?

There was no question about the forgiveness. The question was 'After forgiving, is it wrong to say ' Although i forgive you totally, i dont want a relationship with you anymore. Especially as their sisters. I would suggest from the quote that our Lord is saying. 'If one sins, but repents, then you must go on forgiving, no matter how many times. Thanks Spockrates. Most helpful

 

[MargaretLFY]

I’m 47 years old. And I was beaten until I blacked out by my sister who is 8 years older than me when we were children. The first beating she told me a couple of years ago was when she was 12 and I was 4 while she was babysitting. She tells me it occurred at least 5 times whenever she babysat. I remember the first beating because I didn’t black out right away.

But because I was Christian and loved God I forgave her and accepted her doing other bad things like stealing from me and annihilate family from me right after our mother died because she was bad and I wasn’t and I forgave her.

Then last year, I was in bed for 3 months because apparently my brain was bruised as a child from these beatings which is all the doctors and I could figure out. A virus set in and I had vertigo. I’ve recovered but I finally decided to forgive and not have any contact with her.

And because of vertigo my 13 and 17 year old was told why Mom was ill and what happened to me as a child. We were told to keep my children away from her too.

My point is that there is a difference of forgiving and forgetting. Forgive but don’t continually challenge your Christianity by someone who is evil – doesn’t love God and justifies their bad actions, as my sister does.

I actively pray for her I really wish she’d find God and Love Him and this is the thrust of my prayers. But, even if she became the perfect Christian our relationship would have to be at an end. No contact with me or my children. However, there might be letters and prayers said in this very joyous unlikelihood. I take the example of Pope John Paul who visited the man who attempted to kill him. He visited him safely behind bars.

I came to this understanding of evil when I prayed before the vertigo illness – God who is evil versus just stupid? The 3 months of being in bed gave me the answer. Evil is a choice and stupid is a resolvable condition through education. I prayed this prayer because of my sister and the fact that my husband works in the prison system and meets many men who kick themselves for their stupid acts and others who justify their desires that made them criminals.

Evil does corrupt I believe to the point where the person has no longer a free will choice but I also believe God can save them too. We are to pray for them but keep us and ourselves safe while we do it.

To martyr ourselves I believe, should be done only to advance the Christian cause. To martyr ourselves to just one evil person is not good but for all that will follow and for our own sins is good.

Anyway that is what I understand so far and am glad to have this forum to learn more.

God Bless!

 

[Misamoresjjg]

I don’t understand some part of forgiveness as well…however I did forgive my best friend (godmother to my son) for sleeping with my husband which whom we have separated a year ago also because I made that mistake of being unfaithful to him 9 yrs. Ago, and my best friend being the one that told him which to me caused our seperation. Ok so I forgave her and I’m feeling like even though I did and I don’t hate her and will always pray for her, I can’t hold on to the same or even any kind of “new” relationship with her as much as I try. Is this wrong? And here’s where I’m a little confused as well…so my husband (still married thru the catholic church) says he does forgive ME for my mistake, when I know for a fact he doesn’t because he’s depressed, angry & hateful and brings up my affair still to this day after a year, he keeps tryin to make me feel guilty and blames me constantly its my fault why our family fell apart and I should suffer alone without him and deal with our kids alone because of what I did to him. That is why how I know he hasn’t forgiven me. …or is this another situation where maybe he did perhaps forgive but can’t or won’t be with me because he doesn’t want a relationship with me? I don’t know? I’m so confused…

 

[PJM]

[QUOT]E=vstead; Can you forgive someone for hurting you but decide against renewing that relationship or is true forgiveness about starting again with that person. What if its an ongoing quarrel that keeps repeating itself. Is there a time when you say ‘enough is enough’

*** Great question. Thanks!

Aside from belief in God, one would be hrd pressed to find an issue as centeral to Christian beliefs than the issue of forgiveness.

Christ understood the issue Perfectly, which is why it is included by Jesus in the Lord’s Prayer." *** **Forgive us our trespasses AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRESSPASS AGAINST US, and lead us not into temptation." **

*** What we seek here is to ONLY BE FORGIVEN [by God] in direct proportion to how we forgive others*** . "Lead us not into temptation follows the petition because it is sooooo easy, and so tempting to NOT Forgive fully. And the easiest person NOT to forgive is the very person MOST in need of total forgiveness; NAMELY OURSELVES

** If we do not, cannot forgive ourselves; we ARE unable to fully forgive others!**

This is critical to ones personal salvation. Which is why when Jesus was teaching on the topic; Peter [perhaps showing off a bit; ask Jesus. “Lord how many times must we forgive? Jewish Tradition was an “eye and maybe a tooth, for an eye.” So Peter say’s “SEVEN TIMES?” [Seven being the perfect number]. An Jesus replies; NO! NOT SEVEN TIMES, BUT SEVENTY TIMES SEVEN TIMES” Meaning, without limit. Always and every time.

** Now a word in response to the OPQ.**

*** Forgiveness like love itself requires a personal decision and commitment. We must decide to do it.

It is quite possible to love a person you don’t like or admire. In the same vein one can forgive someone that they neither like or admire.

Your query about freely choosing association depends on why or why not you would choose to do so. If the decision is even remotely spiteful, it’s WRONG. If on the other hand it is to avoid [objectively, not subjectively] confrontation, anger, and the like; then the decision is morally justified.

So start with the motive, be Objective, and go from there.

There is a moral principle that requires us to “avoid when possible; the near occassion to sin.”***

Love an prayers,

Pat

 

[MargaretLFY]

Misamoresjjg - There’s your guilt his guilt and all the things that led you to cheat! Family, lack of trust issues…you need real family counseling.

There is Routrevaille (I’m sure I’m spelling it wrong) but it’s Marriage Encounter for seriously distressed and possibly ending Catholic marriages. Its been time to call them for a long time.

In my experience true forgivenes doesn’t have any bad thoughts and feelings that go with it. It is a hope that the person that has wronged you is able to have a happy, fruitful and God Loving life…in my case without me.

If you want your marriage to succeed not only would I call for help but I would put all those aside that interfered with my marriage with our without my permission, I’m speaking about those you and your husband cheated with. Set limits with those who didn’t out right sin but maybe had unhelpful advice or opinions. Don’t be angry just learn and move to the next step that God wants you to do.

There’s a lot going on in your marriage and separation is the time to pray, rethink and get help. Take every step with an open heart to God and even when or if He says know you know you did your best and then do the next thing He does say Yes to.

I’m stopping and saying a prayer for you and everyone that is having a hard time in there marriage right now.

 

[ryecroft]

I have a situation with forgiveness with some family members. Although I will forgive and am asked repeatedly to “try” again, although you can forgive an infinate amount of time, I have never read anywhere in the Bible where God wants you to keep putting yourself in harms way. I hat to say it, but sometimes you have to cut the losses and say “while I have fogriven you, for the time being, I don’t know how I could feel comfortable doing these things with you - I need some time to try to regain the trust I’ve lost…” or something like that. THis way you’re forgiving and not harbouring resentment but also being honest about how you feel. Good Luck and I hope it works out for who you’re talking about.
God Bless
Rye

 

[Misamoresjjg]

Misamoresjjg - There’s your guilt his guilt and all the things that led you to cheat! Family, lack of trust issues…you need real family counseling.

There is Routrevaille (I’m sure I’m spelling it wrong) but it’s Marriage Encounter for seriously distressed and possibly ending Catholic marriages. Its been time to call them for a long time.

In my experience true forgivenes doesn’t have any bad thoughts and feelings that go with it. It is a hope that the person that has wronged you is able to have a happy, fruitful and God Loving life…in my case without me.

If you want your marriage to succeed not only would I call for help but I would put all those aside that interfered with my marriage with our without my permission, I’m speaking about those you and your husband cheated with. Set limits with those who didn’t out right sin but maybe had unhelpful advice or opinions. Don’t be angry just learn and move to the next step that God wants you to do.

There’s a lot going on in your marriage and separation is the time to pray, rethink and get help. Take every step with an open heart to God and even when or if He says know you know you did your best and then do the next thing He does say Yes to.

I’m stopping and saying a prayer for you and everyone that is having a hard time in there marriage right now.

Guilt? i have NO guilt, I did the right thing and turned to god and found my faith and confessed and spoke to a priest, he is the one that lives a with guilt & resentment and anger, i’m just a little confused where is if even if he says he forgives me then why does he bash me with questions still now after a year since he found out (from my best friend may i add) and he’s still angry & has hate towards me? I mean it’s no excuse i still commited adultry 10 years ago but i was going thru an unhappy marriage and instead of seeking GOD I seeked attention from another man. I guess i wasn’t clear on my post at first sorry, i did this mistake 10 years ago and he just found out 1 year ago from my best friend she was the ONLY one that knew, so for revenge HE slept with her (my best friend) (which is also his best friends wife!) and that’s another issue, i forgave her but i can’t seem to be around her like i use to be? she wants it to be like it was, our families & kids were very very close…but i can’t it’s too uncomfortable for me to be around her, my husband & her husband…and obviously it doesn’t bother my husband any because he still continues his relationship with him & her as if nothing even happened!? i’m not ever gonna say anything about what she did to her husband because i would never ruin a marriage like that or break up a family, why go down to her level? it’s not me, not anymore…this all makes it so very hard to be around all of them being me the only one that knows EVERYTHING that’s happened besides my hubby & her…so anyway does is also mean i don’t really forgive her?? i’m still a little lost?..

and yes i have heard of retrouville but my husband is so against anykind of help or counseling especially since he’s putting ALL the blame on me he’s mad at god because god is helping me get thru this and i’m ok, so that kills him to see me “ok”…

 

[spockrates]

Are you suggesting that someone should continually put themselves in harms
way to prove they have forgiven?

Not suggesting, Cheeto! Just wondering what Christ really meant. He appears to be telling you and me that IF a person repents we MUST forgive. Don’t you think? Two questions to consider:

A) How do we determine when a person has sincerely repented or when he is merely pulling our legs?

B) To what degree should we forgive? (Should we fully pardon the person and restore our relationship and act as though he never sinned?)

I’m thinking that (A) is something the one who sinned has the burden to prove by his words and deeds. If that is the case, then forgiveness is something we might conceivably withhold until we are sure the person has made a genuine change.

I’m also thinking that (B) raises questions about what forgiveness itself really is. Is it just an emotion of not feeling ill will? Or is it much more than that–an emotion backed by real action?